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SMPS and grounding


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1 minute ago, lmitche said:

Please let us know what you choose.

 

These male ones I ordered a while ago to make DIY starquad cables were good: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PMVLBNW

 

But I cannot find females of the same brand. I ordered these, thinking that uxcell has usually proved reliable so far: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005CMP434

 

Will keep y'all posted.

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7 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

LPS in general have primarily the lower impedance leakage.

 

The problem with using a linear supply is that the output may not be grounded. An ungrounded output will not shunt the high impedance leakage from other network devices when used with one of the named switches. (other switches don't block network leakage whether they are grounded or not.

 

Thus if using one of the named switches AND using an LPS you still need to ground the output, not to shunt high impedance leakage from the lps, but to shunt the high impedance leakage coming from other devices on the network.

 

John S.

 

Damn! I have to ground all three of my LPS-1s?

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Nearfield setup-Matrix Element H USB>Curious Evolved>Yggy OG>Freya+>Mono Trys>Harbeth P3ESR 40th & Martin Logan Dynamo 1100X & Burson Soloist w/ Super Charger> Mr.Speakers Ether 2,& Technics 1500C, Arcromat> SoundSmith Carmen MkII > Zu Mission>Parks Puffin Toslink.. Blue Jeans interconnects, Pangea power cables, IsoAcoustics feet, Goldpoint SW2X

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, austinpop said:

Gaah - turns out the screw terminals I ordered from Amazon are crap! About 90% don't want to tighten properly.

 

Avoid this POS, please: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01ER6QWAY

 

I will try another brand...

Yeah I got the exact same ones from jaycar here in Australia and the screw terminals seem to give up easily if over tightened. I jamed the copper in and used heat shrink to hold it all together. 

 

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Thanks heaps @JohnSwensonfor this fantastic mod!!  In my particular system it has had an enormous impact. I had several devices on my network that were powered by smps. I removed the ethernet cable running from my router to my desktop pc and used WiFi instead. I then made two of your adapters, one for my router and one for my sonicTransporter (standard smps) and kept using a 5v phone charger battery pack for my dlink switch between my lps1 powered sms200 and sonicTransporter. All up this has made a huge difference. More natural vocals, much better depth perception, increase in bass speed/tightness. For me,  it's made the biggest impact for the least amount of money spent ?.

 

Thanks again. ?

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43 minutes ago, Bricki said:

Thanks heaps @JohnSwensonfor this fantastic mod!!  In my particular system it has had an enormous impact. I had several devices on my network that were powered by smps. I removed the ethernet cable running from my router to my desktop pc and used WiFi instead. I then made two of your adapters, one for my router and one for my sonicTransporter (standard smps) and kept using a 5v phone charger battery pack for my dlink switch between my lps1 powered sms200 and sonicTransporter. All up this has made a huge difference. More natural vocals, much better depth perception, increase in bass speed/tightness. For me,  it's made the biggest impact for the least amount of money spent ?.

 

Thanks again. ?

 

Bricki - wanted to make sure I understood ur setup. 1) you made one of John’s grounding/leakage mods and inserted in between power source and ur router, right? What was ur power source and voltage? 2)  the 2nd one went between the LPS-1 and the sms200 and sonic transporter? We’re you using a Y connector?  Didn’t quite understand. Thanks for clarifying. 

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53 minutes ago, Bruce Orr said:

 

Bricki - wanted to make sure I understood ur setup. 1) you made one of John’s grounding/leakage mods and inserted in between power source and ur router, right? What was ur power source and voltage? 2)  the 2nd one went between the LPS-1 and the sms200 and sonic transporter? We’re you using a Y connector?  Didn’t quite understand. Thanks for clarifying. 

?no worries. Sorry for the confusion. I made 2 "Swenson" grounding adapters. I put 1 between the 12v dc input smps on my router/modem. I put the other one on the 12v smps input on my sonicTransporter (roon core). I did this instead of purchasing the netgear switch John suggested so I could continue to use my 5v dlink switch running on battery. The other improvement was to remove my ethernet connection with my desktop computer and use WiFi instead. This means I no longer have a device on the network powered by a smps where the - dc output isn't grounded. All these tweaks added up to a significant improvement in sq ???

 

Ps... The lps1 powered sms200 is also attached to the dlink 5v switch - but I didn't attach a grounding adapter here because if I read john's post correctly it would be of no benefit 

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2 hours ago, Bricki said:

?no worries. Sorry for the confusion. I made 2 "Swenson" grounding adapters. I put 1 between the 12v dc input smps on my router/modem. I put the other one on the 12v smps input on my sonicTransporter (roon core). I did this instead of purchasing the netgear switch John suggested so I could continue to use my 5v dlink switch running on battery. The other improvement was to remove my ethernet connection with my desktop computer and use WiFi instead. This means I no longer have a device on the network powered by a smps where the - dc output isn't grounded. All these tweaks added up to a significant improvement in sq ???

 

Ps... The lps1 powered sms200 is also attached to the dlink 5v switch - but I didn't attach a grounding adapter here because if I read john's post correctly it would be of no benefit 

If the LPS-1 is powered by an SMPS, it is still a good idea to ground the output of the SMPS (NOT the output of the LPS-1) in order to make sure that the high impedance leakage doesn't find some path into the audio works.

 

John S.

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3 hours ago, Bricki said:

The other improvement was to remove my ethernet connection with my desktop computer and use WiFi instead. This means I no longer have a device on the network powered by a smps where the - dc output isn't grounded. All these tweaks added up to a significant improvement in sq ???

 

To overcome a similar problem, I used a "4 Way/Port Manual Sharing Switch Box Network Ethernet Selector Splitter Switcher " between the PC and the Broadband Modem.

 When ripping CDs and playing music I switched off the connection between the modem and the PC by just pushing a push button.

 

uJXaWH.jpg

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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1 hour ago, JohnSwenson said:

If the LPS-1 is powered by an SMPS, it is still a good idea to ground the output of the SMPS (NOT the output of the LPS-1) in order to make sure that the high impedance leakage doesn't find some path into the audio works.

 

John S.

ok thanks john.

 

looks like I have some more adapters to make:D

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56 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

To overcome a similar problem, I used a "4 Way/Port Manual Sharing Switch Box Network Ethernet Selector Splitter Switcher " between the PC and the Broadband Modem.

 When ripping CDs and playing music I switched off the connection between the modem and the PC by just pushing a push button.

 

uJXaWH.jpg

 

Nice one Alex! :) I did´nt even know they existed. Do you mean that this "4 Way/Port Manual Sharing Switch Box Network Ethernet Selector Splitter Switcher " completely cut the ports (the magnetic boxes inside the switch) of choise? Do you have a link where to find them?

 

 

 

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54 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

To overcome a similar problem, I used a "4 Way/Port Manual Sharing Switch Box Network Ethernet Selector Splitter Switcher " between the PC and the Broadband Modem.

 When ripping CDs and playing music I switched off the connection between the modem and the PC by just pushing a push button.

 

uJXaWH.jpg

ok. thanks for the tip. I didn't know these existed:cool:

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I found it here https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Port-Way-8P8C-RJ45-Network-Ethernet-Manual-ABCD-Sharing-Switch-Box-MT-RJ45-4-/400357656379 but immediately spotted a problem. There is simply no 1000mbit versions available. Since there is no need for external power I guess it works in similar way to a 2-way splitter (clearly visable on the diagram on top of this 2-way splitter below), which splits 8 pins into 2 x 4 pins (ie. 1000Base-TX becomes 100Base-TX).

 

-font-b-Ethernet-b-font-Extension-font-b

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Nice one Alex! :) I did´nt even know they existed. Do you mean that this "4 Way/Port Manual Sharing Switch Box Network Ethernet Selector Splitter Switcher " completely cut the ports (the magnetic boxes inside the switch) of choise? Do you have a link where to find them?

 

They just use multipole push button switches inside to disconnect the inputs not in use.

 When posting this I found the image associated with my original ebay purchase, but could no longer find this particular one on ebay. It also uses an additional short cable to the PC from it's output.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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Made up about a half dozen of these over the weekend and have another batch coming. Putting them on everything - a couple of Netgear   GS108 switches, FMC’s on the main and office systems, and the Vortexbox (using an iFi 2.5mm adapter as JS suggested). When I get more, they’ll go on the upstairs switch, modem, AirPort Extreme, even the Roku next to the audio system. So far they’ve made a big but subtle impact - no more upper register hash, and the bass is full but detailed. Wonderful tweak for next to nothing - did the whole house for less than one iFi version would cost - $10 in adapters, $35 for seven plugs, and the cable already laying around. Notice the difference in both setups. 

 

One tip - insert the stranded ground wire (I’m using 18g  lamp wire) into the adapter first and then the solid nub of 14g. These adapters worked just fine: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0127J7NWE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

SERVER CLOSET (in office directly below living room stereo):NUC 7i5BNH with Roon ROCK (ZeroZone 12V on the NUC)>Cisco 2690L-16PS switch>Sonore opticalModule (Uptone LPS 1.2)>

LIVING ROOM: Sonore opticalRendu Roon version (Sonore Power Supply)> Shunyata Venom USB>Naim DAC V1>Witchhat DIN>Naim NAP 160 Bolt Down>Chord Rumor 2>Audio Physic Compact Classics. OFFICE: opticalModule> Sonore microRendu 1.4> Matrix Mini-i Pro 3> Naim NAP 110>NACA5>KEF Ls50's. BJC 6a and Ghent Catsnake 6a JSSG ethernet; AC cables: Shunyata Venom NR V-10; Audience Forte F3; Ice Age copper/copper; Sean Jacobs CHC PowerBlack, Moon Audio DIN>RCA, USB A>C. Isolation: Herbie's Audio Lab. 

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22 hours ago, lmitche said:

Please let us know what you choose.

 

22 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

These male ones I ordered a while ago to make DIY starquad cables were good: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PMVLBNW

 

But I cannot find females of the same brand. I ordered these, thinking that uxcell has usually proved reliable so far: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005CMP434

 

Will keep y'all posted.

 

I used these.  They worked fine, but they all look the same so...

 

https://www.amazon.com/Female-Barrel-Connector-Cameras-LED/dp/B01LYF2MD1/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1508972905&sr=1-1&keywords=Male+and+Female+Barrel+Connector+Plug+5.5mm+x+2.1mm+for+CCTV+Cameras+%2F+Single+Color+LED+Strips+Pack+of+5+pairs

 

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On 10/25/2017 at 5:43 PM, JohnSwenson said:

If the LPS-1 is powered by an SMPS, it is still a good idea to ground the output of the SMPS (NOT the output of the LPS-1) in order to make sure that the high impedance leakage doesn't find some path into the audio works.

 

John S.

Ok, I am powering the LPS1 with the meanwell smps and I have now grounded the output of the meanwell. I think that this last shunt has made a bigger impact than all the others. All of these shunts have combined to make an enormous difference. Thanks again John!!!

 

Once again, this is the biggest bang for buck mod I have ever made. I'm absolutely astounded with the results. I guess I had a lot to gain with all SMPS in my system though.

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On 2.10.2017 at 9:19 PM, JohnSwenson said:

The upshot is that it takes BOTH methods to get rid of the noise, both a shunt and a series.

 

So are you saying it is as easy as adding a 100 M ohm in series and shunt will do the trick ?

 

The high impedance will travel through the resistor, and shunt. The low impedance one, will be handled by the resistor ?

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Not really,

the shunt is to ground, that is what this thread is all about, the series has to be in series with the leakage, in this case it is the DC power, putting 100Mohm in series with the + and - of the power supply is not going to do any good, yep is will block the low impedance part, but you won't get any POWER through to run the device!

 

In some cases it is possible to block the low impedance part on SIGNAL connections, if the connection is all right with several K ohms in series. This is how the connection with a switch works, the transformers are 100 ohms impedance for the high frequency Ethernet signal, but in some cases can be significantly higher for the lower frequency leakage current, which is enough to block the low impedance leakage.

 

John S.

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11 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

Not really,

the shunt is to ground, that is what this thread is all about, the series has to be in series with the leakage, in this case it is the DC power, putting 100Mohm in series with the + and - of the power supply is not going to do any good, yep is will block the low impedance part, but you won't get any POWER through to run the device!

 

In some cases it is possible to block the low impedance part on SIGNAL connections, if the connection is all right with several K ohms in series. This is how the connection with a switch works, the transformers are 100 ohms impedance for the high frequency Ethernet signal, but in some cases can be significantly higher for the lower frequency leakage current, which is enough to block the low impedance leakage.

 

John S.

A bit confused now.  Understand the shunt to ground of the minus side of the DC power supply using the umbilical for the high frequency component of the leakage current for which you provided details previously.

IIRC. you mentioned that it was easy to get rid of the low frequency component as well but it needed to be done differently.  I, like others I am guessing, are looking for a DIY how-to for the low frequency.  I for one am not well versed in electronics so a "Betty Crocker" description of what parts and where to stick them (Uh, Uh!) ;-) would be helpful.

 

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  • John

.......and even if we use a LPS-1 and shunt it we won’t get rid of the low impedance ?

(using a FS105/8 before your AE. )

 

I think yes, cause in another thread you have stated the shunt applies to all SMPS including the LPS-1.

No matter what so ever ?

 

Tough in that posts high and low impedance leakage was not discussed. 

 

So yet no final solution how to get rid of both impedance components is such an application ? ( only those two switches used as AE).  

That’s how I understand your post above. 

 

Then of cause we can discuss if you really need to remove the low Impedance DC current leakage in powering that specific switch for that specific use. (As AE). 

 

Maybe removing the 100Mhz pair and be left with only the 10 MHz can be something to test as well, as those leakage currents is frequency dependent. 

 

So will isolating the ethernet signal to 10 MHz help in theory ?

 

 

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1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

Maybe removing the 100Mhz pair and be left with only the 10 MHz can be something to test as well, as those leakage currents is frequency dependent. 

 

So will isolating the ethernet signal to 10 MHz help in theory ?

 

Just by curiousity. Why do you assume that?

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Just by curiousity. Why do you assume that?

 

As I was staring to write you a long explanation, I suddenly understood I have no idea why I did ?

 

As of cause ? these current leakage doesn’t care about what signal is traveling through either the DC cable, nor the Ethernet cable. 

 

Thanks for notice...(my stupidity)

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