FORGETTING the Digital to Analog conversion part, what is BEST Digital source?

[gstew]

Listening to my SDTrans384 -> Soekris DAM 1021 setup right now. It is my reference setup among the various I play with and not by a small amount. It has a lot going for it:

 

- VERY low noise source due to the very limited processing and both good and rational (though now a little dated) power supply networks.

 

- Plays up to 384 PCM & 256 DSD.

 

- I2S, S/PDIF, & PS Audio-compliant I2S over HDMI outputs. I2S is best (but requires a very close DAC chip, <3" best), the S/PDIF implementation is good, but definitely not today's SOTA, and the I2S over HDMI is limited by the PS Audio standard in that the player is the master, where the "correct" way to do it is to have the clocks at the DAC and they be the master.

 

- Very tweakable from a power perspective.

 

- Good (not great according to current standards) NDK clocks with the ability to take external clocks of appropriate frequencies.

 

 

On 9/20/2017 at 12:12 PM, beerandmusic said:

 

Please make the sdcard library so you can control song selection from a web browser and that it can play dsd.

 

 

On 9/19/2017 at 9:30 AM, barrows said:

I was referring to using Foobar as a way of browsing/library management for the D card player built into the Mirus Pro.  You can only find a song/album anyway if the correct card is in the Mirus Pro as well.  but, like i said, if these are not issues for you, you might very much the SD card approach.

 

On 9/19/2017 at 5:04 AM, beerandmusic said:

Huh?  they make 1tb sd cards...my entire library would fit on a 512GB sd card, and i have no problems managing that much data?  Everything is organized by genre, then artist, then album...takes a couple seconds to find anything.

 

 

BUT to make it a low-noise setup, it uses a fairly low-power (electrically & in capability) FPGA as the main processor.

 

- It only knows about the SD card inserted, nothing about any others in your library. AND it has no connectivity beyond power in and I2S-S/PDIF-HDMI out and a few power and clock inputs. So no browsing in Foobar. BTW, it does not work with all SD cards... that has been pretty hit or miss for me.

 

- Max SD card size is 32Gb and it only recognizes WAV, RIFF, and DFF files. So not a large portion of a library on a single card AND as Barrows so aptly noted, you have to figure out how to manage having your library split across a bunch of cards... I expect my entire library to take between 35-50 cards. I am still dealing with how to best manage my library in that format. AND making it capable of handling larger cards means more processing capability, which will be hard to do without compromising its inherent low noise and SQ.

 

- No FLAC, MP3, or any compression is supported, which of course is in line with minimal processing, BUT that means you have your files at native size, meaning fewer on an SD card and more cards.

 

- With limited processing capability, functionality is also VERY limited. 4 buttons...

     #1 Mode: Skip folders on the current card, set repeat mode (none, all, folder, one)

     #2 Skip to next file or folder (if folder skip mode selected)

     #3 Skip to previous file or folder (if folder skip mode selected)

     #4 Start (at the beginning of ALWAYS) or Stop playing current file

 

One can add a remote capability to these functions (and I have), but that is of limited utility as you have no way to see what's on the small screen remotely.

 

I would LOVE to have 2 functions added:

 

    1 - Phase reversal... could be another function on the Mode button

    2 - Fast forward/reverse. Not sure the architecture of the unit could handle this, but it would be nice, most of my music is ripped into single files per CD, so I have no way to navigate in a file, just start it at the beginning, stop it, start it at the beginning again.

 

On 9/18/2017 at 11:34 PM, barrows said:

<SNIP>

On the SDtrans, I am well aware of that approach, but it is too tweaky for most these days.  I have a Resonessence Mirus PRO DAC at home right now and it has a built in SD card player, but the user experience is too far from the convenience which most are used to gain much acceptance.  A library on SD cards is hard to imagine managing.  Sound quality is good on the Mirus Pro via SD card, but not better than the Signature Rendu SE via USB.

 

On 9/18/2017 at 11:29 PM, Norton said:

Funnily enough, I was going  to suggest a minimalist SD card transport direct to DAC as likely the best digital source purely in  SQ terms.  The SD trans is still a bit too DIY for me, but I've had a loan  Mirus DAC  in my system for the last fortnight and the replay from SD card is really special.  If some innovative boutique audio company could turn out a professionally finished SOTA standalone SD card transport for under $1000, I'd certainly be first in line.  Know anyone who might consider taking on that project ? (nice case, decent PSU, USB+BNC+I2S outputs, built in screen, navigate by Apple physical remote, no network connection)?

 

An SDTrans384 is by definition a VERY tweaky setup. While it will work as both a S/PDIF and I2S over HDMI source, it is best used as a dedicated source for a dedicated DAC with an I2S connections. NOT many companies are going to do that and almost ALL other implementations compromise the SQ available. The OTHER non-compromised setup uses a companion DAC designed and built by Chaiki (the guy who along with Bunpei developed the SDTrans384) that uses a non-standard I2S over HDMI with the clocks at the DAC as the master, transmitting the clock signals back to the SDTrans. That is the setup Bunpei showed a few posts back. 

 

How would it compare against the Mirus DAC SD Card player? Hard to tell without modifying one to feed either their SD Card Player or the SDTrans384. I doubt we'll ever see that comparison! I suspect well, but we'll likely never know.

 

In summary, I love mine. It is VERY GOOD. AND everything I've done with Ethernet-connected players have been definite 2nd places... though I'm still trying to elevate my sources to its level. 

 

BUT it has VERY serious limitations that few are going to put up with. I do so partly because I am a seriously tweaky audiophile AND because of just how good it sounds compared to everything else I have here. 

 

I won't be parting with mine anytime soon. BUT I SERIOUSLY DOUBT these will take the world by storm!

 

Greg in Mississippi

 

P.S. There are some DIY SD Card players available on EBay, mostly from China. I've looked at some of them, a couple of the super-tweaks (even more than me!) at TirNaHiFi have played with them, I have some to try and modify to see if I can at least match the SQ I get from the SDTrans384... and I don't have high hopes, they all have more powerful processors (more noise), poorer power supply networks, and compromised clocking schemes. Still I got 3 of these to play with for less than 1/3 the cost of my SDTrans384, so it's worth the effort.

 

 

[gstew]

On 9/20/2017 at 11:37 AM, Bunpei said:

 

Hi, Alex!

 

I appreciated your comment on SDTrans384.

Yes. Our SDTrans384 project has its origin in "Micro SD Card Transport" appeared in diyAudio Forum and it used to be a really "minimalist approach".

(The first and the second pictures.)

 

I am a system engineer who once developed software for an industrial measurement instrument with ADC/DAC devices. My initial idea was a DMA(Direct Memory Access) between a peripheral device and a memory.

Therefore, a DAC chip and a memory card consist minimum components.

 

However, the current status is shown in the third picture. At the end of several escalations, my player system, a combination of SDTrans384 (SD memory card transport) and ES9038PRO Dual Mono DAC board connected with LVDS/HDMI connector & cable, weighs more than 30 kg and located on two storied 60cm x 90cm wood boards. Approximately 95% of the total weight is of power supply circuits. Many selected components, such as NDK DuCULoN OCXO, CDE film capacitors, Evans Hybrid capacitors, Finemet-core transformers, Infineon SiC rectifiers and so on are used.

 

It is quite deviated from the initial "minimalist approach", actually.

I am satisfied with SQ of the system, though. I love a SD memory card player and have no plan to use a USB-based system so far.

 Bunpei,

 

Thanks for sharing on this thread. Your setups (as shown above and with Chaiki on the DIYAudio "Ess Sabre Reference DAC..." thread earlier this year) have come a long way since you last posted about it back in 2013 or so:

 

I also offer my meager by comparison setup:

 

 

I'm using 2 Uptone Audio LPS-1s with each going into one side of a dual paralleled LT3042 (4-per side) board which are then paralleled to feed the SDTrans. A 3rd LPS-1 feeds the input circuits of my DAC card, with the DAC itself powered via AC-connected power supplies.

 

Note that I do use 1 CDE polypropylene cap on the SDTrans... it along with a small paralleled supercap make a significant improvement in the unit's sonics. I'm very curious to learn more details about your setup (so that I may duplicate)... I'll PM you my email address if you don't mind.

 

Thanks for showing us how a serious reference digital setup is done!

 

Greg in Mississippi

 

P.S. How does your current SDTrans384 power setup compare to the solar-cell setup you shared on your thread on DIYAudio a few years back? I'm still considering an off-the-grid solar-cell/battery setup for my audio systems, inspired by those posts.

[gstew]

On 9/20/2017 at 7:07 PM, opus101 said:

 

Here is one example - https://www.thememoryplayer.net/defractionalized-memory

 

Interesting. Not the first time I've seen something like this.

 

Back 5 years or so, the small group of us using the cMP/cPlay computer music playback setups got deeply into radical and extreme system minimizations... a very global effort with contributors from Russian, India, Canada, Japan, the US, and a few countries I forget. We'd not only cut out all un-needed modules and DLLs from WinXP, but even modify the executables of the remaining modules to minimize their size by taking out un-needed functionality. The resulting 'minimized' WinXP op-system and executables took about 15Mb of space!

 

Two of the leaders of this effort, a guy from Russia who posted under the name of 'Steppe' and a guy from Japan who posted under 'Jack Wong', suggested defragmenting your drive and erasing all free space, then using a separate utility to erase the cluster tips. The idea was to have all files contiguous with no excess 'junk' between or after files, minimizing the size of the 'map' of the drive used by XP and the processing needed to access a file.

 

Of course, you only want to do this on a very static drive as you will need to redo it as you add files. AND in my system and to my ears, it made a very nice positive difference in that setup.

 

I'm sure to most this sounds crazy and smacks of 'confirmation bias'. Nottaprob, won't be the first time. AND like Barrows, I have trained myself and work hard to clearly hear the differences in changes in my setups AND be honest on whether they actually make a difference and whether it is positive, negative, or just different. I don't share as much about the negative things, but I run into almost as many of them as positive ones.

 

Greg in Mississippi

[gstew]

5 minutes ago, Norton said:

Is this similar to what Bughead does with "ReWrite data"?

Norton,

 

I'm not that familiar with Bughead, but what I read about it suggested it was similar.

 

Greg in Mississippi

[gstew]

On 1/6/2018 at 3:01 AM, tapatrick said:

Great, that’s the info I was looking for, thanks Greg. Its a tweaky thing but willing to try it out.  I contacted Jack at Tachyon ([email protected])  and they put me on a list. When they have 10 they will build a new batch. 

 

Anyone else interested? Use chrome browser to translate site from Japanese. 

http://www.tachyon.co.jp/~sichoya/SDTrans/SDTrans6.html

 

 

I'm glad you found those posts, sorry for not responding faster.

 

The I2S over HDMI PS Audio format output should work VERY well with your Directstream DAC. As I remember, that was the then 'best' input method using a Sonore Signature Rendu as a source device when the original Directstream was reviewed on CA.

 

How many more orders are needed to get to 10? I might be tempted to get another... if only as a spare.

 

Looking forward to you experiences when you get one.

 

Greg in Mississippi

[gstew]

On 1/6/2018 at 1:17 PM, seeteeyou said:

 

I'm also a fan of SDTrans384, it's so interesting to see someone else in Japan who actually went all out to build this PSU to bypass the regulators

 

<SNIP>

 

Bunpei-san was investing quite a bit on external clocks, this particular one from NDK should be one of the best out there but it's taking 3 months NDK to deliver them after an order was placed

 

<SNIP>

 

Another "secret" sauce would be FINEMET core transformers

 

<SNIP>

 

BTW, there's another similar player from Japan that's available on Amazon 

 

<SNIP>

 

@seeteeyou,

 

Thanks for the great SD card player references. I've been considering either a Pulsar or a DuCuLon clock for mine, these are good resources.

 

Have you seen any other comments on that alternative player? It looks more complex... I still think that is one of the things that makes the SDTran384 work so well, it is such a simple system compared to any other electronically-stored media player. But it is always good to check on alternatives. 

 

I also found the separate PSU links interesting. I will say that in my experience, it is VERY important to have the regulators as close as possible to the powered circuit... as a short-term measure, I am considering replacing the several 3.3V & one 1.2V ADP150 regulators on the SDTrans with LP5907s... a pin-compatible and good upgrade in every situation where I've done that. Later I will likely go for add-on LT3045 boards, mounted right on each regulator bypass point. Ultimately I will likely go to the float-charged LiFePO4's (as on TirNaHiFi) or Ultracaps (as by ABartels and BBallas on HeadFi).

 

Later!

 

Greg in Mississippi