Mola Mola Pre/dac review compared to DAVE dac

[toetapaudio]

@Marcel073, two products I can recommend you take a look at:

 

Fidata server (for music downloaded). 1 or 2 TB storage.

 

and/or

 

Lumin U1 or U1 mini renderer (for streaming). 

[Marcel073]

@barrows

Thanks again for your reply!

 

I checked your company's website. Wow, you are their Builder. Nice to actually work in this industry.

Admittedly, I had not heard of the brand ;-(

I quickly googled a few things and saw a video review by the Dutch guy Hans Beekhuysen who has is own youtube channel.

He was a big fan of your gear and used it in his primary set but at some point changed to SOtM sMS-200 with an SBooster power supply. Okay, one more brand I had never heard of.

For sure I will look into both.

BTW, he calls your and SOtM devices Networked Audio Adaptors (NAA). A new acronym for me as well ...

 

Anyway, my picture is getting less blurry. So, thank you for that!!

As I am not yet there to make the M-M purchase anyway, I'll simply wait and see what they will come up with.

 

@toetapaudio

Also thanks again for your reply!

 

Lumin I know and was on my list. But I doubt wether their price/quality is justifiable.

 

Fidata server is a different category of products and in that category there are plenty others (Melco (Japan), Antipodes (New Zealand), Aurender (South Korea), just to name a few).

I really do not see the advantage of buying e.g. an Aurender N10 of roughly 9k euro versus a NAS (e.g. an Asset "RipNAS" of roughly 2k or the recently introduced Roon Nucleus for roughly 1,5k).

If you do see a clear advantage I would like to understand the details.

 

[jventer]

@Marcel073

There are so many ways to do things but I am able to give you some feedback.

My system is based on a dac/pre/amps and speakers that would have been about 12,000 Euros when new, to give some background.

I use a 6 year old NAS and WiFi and for years used a Mac Mini with Audirvana. I then bought an Allo Digione, Sonore Microrendu and an Auralic Aries (Femto) and compared the 4 alternatives.

My Mac Mini is not modified for optimal performance and whilst not bad I would suggest that the latest "streamers" are better value for money and easier to use.

The Allo Digione (similar to Raspberry) is absolutely fantastic value for money, but unfortunately it was not as good as the Microrendu which was not as good as the Aries.  I am now just using the Aries. 

(I do note that the 3 streamers I am writing about have been superceded by better/more expensive alternatives.)

What I like about the Auralic products is that they recommend WiFi - which takes alot of other issues/expenses out fo the equation.

 

I do believe that with your system you will easily be able to hear the differences and I would suggest that you should look at the top of the range products offered if you look at Sonore/SOtM/Aries.

 

To cover your question re Server/NAS/RipNAS etc.: When we look at a DAC the underlying premise is that the music is stored somewhere in digital format. So where is the music? On a CD/BluRay/Hard Disk/NAS/Tidal, Qubuz, other ? The various solutions being offered are either "ripping" from a physical disk to a hard disk or buying/downloading music to a hard disk or just streaming via the internet. You need to decide how you get your music and where it is stored.

 

If one uses a NAS you need a computer and disk drive to rip and or downlaod the music and save on the NAS. MAny of the servers being offered do that and hence removes the need for the computer etc. In other words it may not be that expensive to go down that path. 

 

A typical NAS is designed for normal data storage etc. and not for Audiophile music. The dedicated servers are designed for music only and for example has better power supplies and produces less noise.

 

I have not personally reviewed/compared all these music servers, but from reviews it appears that the sound quality is better. I believe you have to listen for yourself.

 

In summary, for music stored in electronic format the first question is whether you would like to play back the music via computers  and software or via a streamer.  Once you have decided which route you are on you can look at your options. It appears the new Mola -Mola dac will have an ethernet port. That means it will become a streamer as well.  If you go down that route the next question is then: do I store my music on a NAS or on a more expensive music server.

 

All the best.

 

 

 

 

[jtwrace]

I certainly look forward to the Mola Mola Tambaqui.  ?

[toetapaudio]

@Marcel073, the new Lumin U1 mini is £1,695.00. Great value I believe.

 

The Fidata is £6k, but is extremely good and we use it as our reference. The only others that might compare are the Netherlands brands Pink Faun, Evo 432 and SMG,  all of which cost more.

 

@jtwrace, are you in the U.K.? We can lend you one to try if you are.

[jtwrace]

1 minute ago, toetapaudio said:

 

@jtwrace, are you in the U.K.? We can lend you one to try if you are.

No, I"m in the uSA..thanks anyway!  What do you think of it?  

[toetapaudio]

Well we are waiting for one but we use the Makua Pre/Dac atm. If you are a using a turntable as well as digital, this is the one to go for.

[barrows]

13 minutes ago, toetapaudio said:

@Marcel073, the new Lumin U1 mini is £1,695.00. Great value I believe.

 

The Fidata is £6k, but is extremely good and we use it as our reference. The only others that might compare are the Netherlands brands Pink Faun, Evo 432 and SMG,  all of which cost more.

 

@jtwrace, are you in the U.K.? We can lend you one to try if you are.

When you suggest that "the only others that might compare" it suggests that you have auditioned all such products.  As you are a retailer, I think this statement is crossing the boundaries of good form on a public forum.  I doubt that you have compared all available Ethernet Renders in the same system context.  Have you auditioned the Sonore Signature Rendu SE, for example?

I do appreciate your posts here, but I would suggest that you refrain from commenting about products with which you have no experience.

[Marcel073]

@jventer

Thanks for your sharing your view.

My data files will be a mix of downloading / procuring from on-line services as well as streaming from those. I do not own any vinyl record only care for digital input. Also my CD collection is not huge that it justifies to invest in a ripper; for me it is cheaper to download (parts of) the CD's I also own in physical form.

Ultimately the proof of the pudding is in the hearing ?

My own hearing that is.

And in the room in my house, not in a tuned / tweaked room of a vendor.

 

@toetapaudio

My mistake.

Though I know Lumin as a brand I mixed up the their name with Linn.

And their Klimax series rather steeply priced.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

 

[jtwrace]

18 hours ago, toetapaudio said:

Well we are waiting for one but we use the Makua Pre/Dac atm. If you are a using a turntable as well as digital, this is the one to go for.

I"m digital only!  That's why I'm on the Computer Audiophile.  ?

[PYP]

Was interested in looking at the Tambaqui manual, but it isn't available.  Is the Tambaqui being sold by dealers yet?

 

Very interested in listening to the Tambaqui via ethernet (Roon).  Would use straight into Kalugas, which are truly wonderful amps.  Currently using PSAudio Directstream DAC straight to Kalugas.  With the DAC's latest Snowmass operating system, the Directstream sounds very nice indeed.

 

But given the comparisons above and assuming, of course, that the Tambaqui was optimized to work with the Kalugas I would expect more of all the excellent musical qualities of the DS.

 

 

[Marcel073]

10 hours ago, PYP said:

Was interested in looking at the Tambaqui manual, but it isn't available.  Is the Tambaqui being sold by dealers yet?

 

 

 

The Tambaqui is being sold, at least in the Netherlands.

[PYP]

9 hours ago, Marcel073 said:

The Tambaqui is being sold, at least in the Netherlands.

Thank you, Marcel.  

 

I was wondering if the lack of a manual meant that Bruno was continuing to finalize the features.  While the Tambaqui seems to have the usual inputs, other DACs-with-streamer-support seem to be offering built-in compatibility with other streaming software/services such as Spotify (which my wife prefers). 

 

And what about the ability to upgrade the unit?  Since Bruno seemed to say the Tambaqui is good for 10 years, is the design static during that time?   As a big fan of Bruno's philosophy, aesthetics, design and implementation, I'm only asking to get a better understanding of the investment.

 

[Marcel073]

2 hours ago, PYP said:

Thank you, Marcel.  

 

I was wondering if the lack of a manual meant that Bruno was continuing to finalize the features.  While the Tambaqui seems to have the usual inputs, other DACs-with-streamer-support seem to be offering built-in compatibility with other streaming software/services such as Spotify (which my wife prefers). 

 

And what about the ability to upgrade the unit?  Since Bruno seemed to say the Tambaqui is good for 10 years, is the design static during that time?   As a big fan of Bruno's philosophy, aesthetics, design and implementation, I'm only asking to get a better understanding of the investment.

 

I'm not sure.

 

You could consider asking M-M directly about the manual, they are quite responsive.

Or perhaps the distributor for the Benelux and Germany, Terrason Audio.

 

AFAIK, Mr Putzeys is no longer involved with Hypex and M-M.

He is involved with Kii Audio in Germany and a startup in Denmark together with Peter Lyngdorf and a few others.

 

Not sure how M-M deals with updates.

 

To the best of my knowledge M-M is in the process of getting approved by Roon, i.e. to get the Tambaqui officially Roon certified. I'm not aware of streaming services such as Spotify or Tidal built-in.

 

Sorry for not being able to help further.

I'm just like you a potential client.

 

[PYP]

Thank you, Marcel.  Didn't realize that he is no longer with MM, but he is in those peak productive years and clearly wants to expand his reach.  Good for him.  

 

I appreciate your suggestions.  I'm in the U.S., so will work with the distributor here.  Although interested, I'm not in a hurry.  But when I purchased the Kaluga amps it was with the thought that eventually I would add the Tambaqui.  Personally, simple systems appeal to me, especially when they deliver the kind of sound MM does.  

[rickca]

14 minutes ago, Marcel073 said:

AFAIK, Mr Putzeys is no longer involved with Hypex and M-M.

Hmm, that makes me hesitant to consider getting a Tambaqui.

[Marcel073]

37 minutes ago, PYP said:

Thank you, Marcel.  Didn't realize that he is no longer with MM, but he is in those peak productive years and clearly wants to expand his reach.  Good for him.  

 

I appreciate your suggestions.  I'm in the U.S., so will work with the distributor here.  Although interested, I'm not in a hurry.  But when I purchased the Kaluga amps it was with the thought that eventually I would add the Tambaqui.  Personally, simple systems appeal to me, especially when they deliver the kind of sound MM does.  

PYP,

On what basis dis you buy the Kaluga's? and what speakers are you combining them with?

 

I still have to decide on amps. The thing is that the Kaluga's look beautiful and sound really nice but at the end of the day they are NC1200 (Ncore) modules from Hypex, though tweaked by Bruno when he was still with M-M. But there are plenty other players that have implemented 1200, or 500 or 400, such as NAD, Merrill Audio, Jeff Rowland, Bell Canto and ATI-owned Theta Digital. Acoustic Imagery also contained Hypex modules but they went bust.

 

That said, there are also other Class D modules competing with Hypex, e.g. Pascal (Denmark) as used by D-Sonic, Jeff Rowland and Mytek Brooklyn, IcePower (Denmark) as used by Red Dragon, Abletec / Anaview (USA?) as used by D-Sonic.

 

Many people claim they heard superior performance by brand A over B, etc.

 

Manufacturers add their tweaks, e.g. look at Nord Acoustics in the UK who use the same NC500 module from Hypex in their monoblocks (costing about 2k per pair) as Bel Canto in their REF600 (costing about 5k per pair, though admittedly they use a different input buffer). Up to you if this input buffer - and perhaps other differences in components - justifies the 3k difference.

 

Anyway, I'm still not sure what to choose. First many more months of listening sessions. Which is also a lot of fun ?

 

Cheers,

Marcel

 

 

[firedog]

45 minutes ago, rickca said:

Hmm, that makes me hesitant to consider getting a Tambaqui.

You might want to verify that before drawing conclusions. Why not write the company and ask. 

[rickca]

24 minutes ago, firedog said:

You might want to verify that before drawing conclusions. Why not write the company and ask. 

It has to be true.  I read it on the internet. ?

[jtwrace]

1 hour ago, rickca said:

Hmm, that makes me hesitant to consider getting a Tambaqui.

Depends on what you consider no longer involved.  

[PYP]

Marcel,

I had a DIY hypex-based amp and, liking that, purchased a NAD.  The NAD worked well with my old Bowers and Wilkins speakers, but when I upgraded to the B&W 803 D3 (which I consider a great bargain given their performance, which is worthy of the best electronics) I wanted to try a new amp.  After reading about all of the ones you mentioned, and not being able to try many of them without traveling to other states, it seemed best to purchase the brand that has worked.  

 

Much reading led me to the conclusion that Bruno didn't just tweak the typical hyper-based amp, but significantly improved upon the design.  Many reviews stated the excellent sound that resulted.  The Kalugas are in a different league than the NAD.  To me, they perfect what Bruno was starting to achieve with the Hypex modules.  

 

For the first time, I truly believe the amps will stay in my system until they don't work any more or all our equipment is replaced with a small implant in our heads, whichever comes first.  

 

The Kalugas are worth a demo in your own system.  While I hate the idea of expensive power cords, the Kalugas don't live up their potential with the included generic cables, at least not using the power I receive here.  Feed them well and they will amaze you (hopefully).  They do need to settle in for a few days and they need to be well broken-in by the dealer prior to the demo.  

 

Have fun!

[PYP]

Forgot to mention that MM suggests powering the amps directly from the wall, not through a conditioner, and that is how I am using mine (used the same protocol for the early hyper-based amps).  

 

Also, MM used B&W speakers (the bigger 802, I think) to demo the Kalugas.  Of course, MM has now used a variety of speakers at different shows.  If your brand of speakers have been used for demo purposes, that would be a good sign of compatibility.  

[Marcel073]

10 hours ago, jtwrace said:

Depends on what you consider no longer involved.  

Firstly, with "no longer involved" I mean that he is no longer part of the M-M company, so no longer employed. Same for Hypex. Whether he still has shares - if he ever had them - I do not know.

 

Secondly, in response to @rickca, it should not necessarily scare one away from the particular company. I assume that a company has taken its measures to secure in the best way it can future support for their existing products. I mean, now the particular person left those companies for career changes but he/she could also be "no longer involved" as a result of serious illness or worse. In those cases a company should also be able to continue its business ...

[Marcel073]

8 hours ago, PYP said:

Forgot to mention that MM suggests powering the amps directly from the wall, not through a conditioner, and that is how I am using mine (used the same protocol for the early hyper-based amps).  

 

Also, MM used B&W speakers (the bigger 802, I think) to demo the Kalugas.  Of course, MM has now used a variety of speakers at different shows.  If your brand of speakers have been used for demo purposes, that would be a good sign of compatibility.  

 

Okay, clear on how you ended up with the M-M Kaluga's.

And thank you for sharing the speakers you use.

 

I have heard them a couple of times paired with the new Kaya 45 speakers from Vivid, a result of the fact that the local distributor for M-M also represents Vivid Audio.

 

Same here as for availability, i.e. not all brands are easily available in our country. So I still have to find out, but currently on my short list are:

 

- M-M Kaluga

- Bel Canto REF600 (monoblock)

- PS Audio Stellar M700 (monoblock)

- Mytek Brooklyn Stereo (bridged as monoblock)

- Benchmark AHB2 (bridged as monoblock)

- NAD M22

 

As several of these brands are US companies, have you tried one of those?

Especially the Benchmark AHB2 gets rave reviews, in- and outside the US, even from critical studio professionals as Mark Waldrep ...

 

Anyway, since a few weeks I am also getting more interested in active speakers containing high-end implementations of Class D modules such as the Kii Three from Kii Audio (designed by Bruno) and the 8c from Dutch & Dutch (yep, local brand).

 

 

[yyz]

16 minutes ago, Marcel073 said:

As several of these brands are US companies, have you tried one of those?

Especially the Benchmark AHB2 gets rave reviews, in- and outside the US, even from critical studio professionals as Mark Waldrep ...

I have owned the AHB2 and DAC3 together. It was paired with the KEF LS50 or Audience 1+1 V3 monitor speakers. The sound was very fast and resolving and non-fatiguing. With the Audience 1+1 it sounded like you were inside the recording studio. However, I ended up selling all of the gear except the KEF LS50. The reason for the sale was that I took the Benchmark DAC3 and AHB2 set to demo the Magico A3 speaker at a great dealer room. I was able to compare the DAC3 + AHB2 with various Mark Levinson pre-amp | amp | integrated combinations + Chrod DAVE DAC. The Mark Levinson gear had a much better ability to move the sound away from the speakers and better fill the sound stage. I did not notice this quality so much with the monitor speakers but with the floor stander Magico A3 I did. THe DAC3 + AHB2 was also not great at lower volumes while the ML gear was very good at low volumes.

 

I have decided to go for an integrated amp to power the Magico A3 or KEF Reference 1 I will get for my home office. I am trying to decide between the Mark Levinson 585 (or newer lower powered ML integrated line) or the Hegel H590. I have heard various Hegel demoed with KEF Blades (except H590) and my suspicion is I will select the Hegel over the Mark Levinson.