Mola Mola Pre/dac review compared to DAVE dac

[audio.bill]

1 hour ago, Matias said:

So what is the consensus for a digital system only: Tambaqui directly to a power amp sounds the same, better or worst than Makua+DAC module into the same power amp?

I would expect that answer to likely be dependent upon the specific power amp being used, and how well it performs being driven passively compared to with an active preamp.

[barrows]

My understanding is that the output stage of the Tambaqui DAC is the SAME CIRCUIT as that of the Makua preamp.  If that is actually the case, (which would need to be confirmed by Mola Mola) then the sound from the Tambaqui direct to amp should be at least equal that of using the Makua Preamp.

Despite many claims to the contrary, most DACs these days have an active output stage which is much the same (or exactly the same) as the output stage used in a line preamp. 

[PYP]

1 hour ago, Matias said:

So what is the consensus for a digital system only: Tambaqui directly to a power amp sounds the same, better or worst than Makua+DAC module into the same power amp?

 

I don't know the answer to your question, but wanted to point out that you can feed (copper/not fiber) ethernet directly to the Tambaqui; I don't believe you can do that right now with the DAC module in the Makua (although it seems to be a future goal).   That might be a consideration for some folks.  

 

10 minutes ago, barrows said:

My understanding is that the output stage of the Tambaqui DAC is the SAME CIRCUIT as that of the Makua preamp.

 

Another consideration:  The specs for the Tambaqui and the DAC in the Makua are not the same.  Theoretically, though I've not heard both, the Tambaqui should be "better."  

[Matias]

I asked Mola Mola and got:
"Yes indeed the two DAC's are the same, difference between the two is that the Tambaqui employs a digital volume control where the Makua employs an analogue control. Both work very well well but there might be light differences."

So there this implementation difference indeed.

[Matias]

From what I understood the Makua with DAC volume is relay-based and "directly controls the gain of the output stage", while Tambaqui uses the same output stage but always at maximum gain and the volume is digital attenuation only.

 

I bought an used Makua with DAC.

[john925]

On 1/19/2020 at 7:27 AM, Matias said:

From what I understood the Makua with DAC volume is relay-based and "directly controls the gain of the output stage", while Tambaqui uses the same output stage but always at maximum gain and the volume is digital attenuation only.

 

I bought an used Makua with DAC.

 

Hi Matias,

 

Do you happen to know know when Makua will get an upgrade to enable lan streaming? 

John

[Matias]

14 minutes ago, john925 said:

 

Hi Matias,

 

Do you happen to know know when Makua will get an upgrade to enable lan streaming? 

John

From what I have learned, the original version of Makua with DAC had an Ethernet port but it does not work for audio streaming. They need to change the hardware in order to upgrade the older Makuas to the current digital input module that is Roon certified. "For this it needs to be updated in the factory in the Netherlands (the boards need changing, this is not a free upgrade nor possible to perform yourself)"

 

Of course all new Makuas with DAC and Tambaquis already have the latest Roon Ready Ethernet module.

 

Since I do not use Roon I chose not to upgrade my Makua, but I may change my mind in the future. If only they worked with other interfaces (MPD/DLNA, HQ Player NAA, etc).... Fingers crossed here that they decide to support those too, but I have not heard anything about this yet.

[john925]

Thank you for your info, Matias.  I also got a Makua with DAC, but not roon ready.  I use QNAP nas as roon core, so if Makua can support Roon ready via Lan, it will be a nice feature for me.

 

 

[Matias]

When updating my unit with the windows updater it says it did not find some modules but the app says everything is up to date. I suppose the app knows better, right?

[Matias]

FYI there is a new Windows updater and new firmware for the Makua.

 

[Stereophilus]

I sent my Makua back to The Netherlands for the streamer (ethernet input to DAC) upgrade.  On it’s return I could compare it to the Tambaqui DAC into Kaluga monos at the dealer.

 

Firstly, the streamer input is clearly better than the other inputs.  Anyone comparing an older an Makua to a Tambaqui needs to factor in how good the built-in streamer is.  I say this from the perspective of having owned and Antipodes CX+EX with highly tweaked USB output.  I was so impressed with the streamer in the Makua, I immediately sold my EX and used the direct output from the CX into the Makua.  Honestly, it was not even close, the streamer input IS that good.

 

Comparing apples to apples now... using the streaming input on both DACs is very, very close.  It takes very attentive listening to hear any difference.  Of the 2, the Makua is the more relaxed listen, offering ease and liquidity especially at low volumes.  The Tambaqui seems more transparent and a touch more dynamic even.  You wouldn’t be disappointed with either DAC, but the Makua does come at a price premium over the Tambaqui, slightly compromising its value unless you need analog inputs or a phono stage.  That said, the Makua would be my choice if money was irrelevant.

[Matias]

Interesting report, thanks. Is it still Roon only or does it support other interfaces like NAA or DLNA?

[PYP]

2 hours ago, Stereophilus said:

Firstly, the streamer input is clearly better than the other inputs.  

 

Nevertheless, unsurprisingly, I've found that cleaning up the signal before the input is beneficial.  Your CX must be doing that.  

 

Interesting that the two have slightly different qualities.  Enjoy!

[Stereophilus]

16 minutes ago, Matias said:

Interesting report, thanks. Is it still Roon only or does it support other interfaces like NAA or DLNA?

Roon only I believe, but, as I only use Roon I haven’t really played around with other options tbh.

[Stereophilus]

10 minutes ago, PYP said:

 

Nevertheless, unsurprisingly, I've found that cleaning up the signal before the input is beneficial.

100% agree.  I used used an ISO-Regen with JS-2 LPS when I compared the USB Input to the streaming input.  That sounded better than USB straight out of the Antipodes CX+EX.  The streaming input is still clearly better than even that.

 

I also have an Ether-Regen powered by the JS-2.  I prefer the direct Ethernet output from the CX compared to having the ER placed between the CX and the Makua (Makua fed with the “moated” B-side output).  I think the switch built into the CX is somehow optimised to feed an end-point renderer device (like the EX or a streamer), but don’t ask me how!

[PYP]

1 hour ago, Stereophilus said:

 I think the switch built into the CX is somehow optimised to feed an end-point renderer device (like the EX or a streamer), but don’t ask me how!

 

I won't, because if you explained it I doubt I would understand it.      So many variables...   Is the eR feeding the CX?

[presmara]

I agree with Stereophilus on the difference between the Tambaqui and the Makua. I listened to these side by side a year ago using the USB input, but the Tambaqui was quite new and did not have a lot of hours on it. The Makua certainly to my ears sounded more "analogue" than the Tambaqui having a more relaxed fluid organic flow to the music that makes me forget about the equipment and arrive at the live music venue.

 

The Tambaqui did sound very nice, very dynamic, punchy, transparent, not aggressive and had the best implementation of a digital volume control that I have heard. Prior to buy the Makua I had listened to the DAVE and did not like its digital attenuation at all - I found this to be a very aggressive sounding DAC in the system it was playing - I was surprised after all the rave reviews. I had a friend who bought the DAVE new and sold it 12 months later for 40% less than he paid - why did he sell it- because it was too aggressive in his system. Another friend of mine was going to buy the DAVE and got both the DAVE and the Makua at his home along with the rest of his $100k system and bought the Makua for the same reasons as expressive above - the natural organic flow of the music.

 

I find I am rarely listening to tracks now. I want to listen to whole albums, as I forget about how accurate a piano note is and fall into a 3D holographic sound field that takes me to the concert. I am tempted by the Ethernet upgrade, but its a hard decision to part with the Makua for its journey to the Netherlands to get the upgrade and miss my music for several weeks or months depending on what plans Corona has for it. 

Cheers

[Perfect sense]

3 minutes ago, presmara said:

I 

 

The Tambaqui did sound very nice, very dynamic, punchy, transparent, not aggressive and had the best implementation of a digital volume control that I have heard. Prior to buy the Makua I had listened to the DAVE and did not like its digital attenuation at all - I found this to be a very aggressive sounding DAC in the system it was playing - I was surprised after all the rave reviews. I had a friend who bought the DAVE new and sold it 12 months later for 40% less than he paid - why did he sell it- because it was too aggressive in his system. Another friend of mine was going to buy the DAVE and got both the DAVE and the Makua at his home along with the rest of his $100k system and bought the Makua for the same reasons as expressive above - the natural organic flow of the music.

 

This is 100% in line with my observations and experiences as well here after trying out Chord DAVE shortly after it was released. The Tambaqui is a different animal offering a level of resolution, transparency, speed and dynamics that easily compares with or improves upon the Chord reference DAC, while at the same time being much more fluid and liquid.

 

/ Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se

[Matias]

8 minutes ago, presmara said:

I am tempted by the Ethernet upgrade, but its a hard decision to part with the Makua for its journey to the Netherlands to get the upgrade and miss my music for several weeks or months depending on what plans Corona has for it. 

Cheers

I had to change my DigIn board but it was impossible to ship my Makua back to the Netherlands, so after a few emails back and forth and paying for the new DigIn, they sent it along with instructions on a PDF and I changed it myself. It was really not hard at all, no soldering involved, just unscrewing and carefully unplugging a couple of thin wires, and assembling the new one back again. 15 minutes max. Shipping back to the factory maybe they update other stuff, I don't know, but for the DigIn board alone, it's quite easy really.

[Matias]

By the way, when I open my Mola Mola Remote and check the versions, this is what I have (all up to date) for my Makua:

 

Hardware version: 1.1

Firmware version: 3.6

DAC firmware version: 1.0

DigIn firmware version: 2.5

 

Out of curiosity, does anyone have a more recent version for one of those?

[PYP]

50 minutes ago, presmara said:

I agree with Stereophilus on the difference between the Tambaqui and the Makua. I listened to these side by side a year ago using the USB input, but the Tambaqui was quite new and did not have a lot of hours on it.

 

In my own system, the Tambaqui sounded good with few hours on it, but continued to become more fluid over many, many months.  No complaints -- I enjoyed music the entire time -- but when it reached its high point (fully settled in), it became a truly exceptional DAC.  

 

I've never heard the Makua.  Since I didn't need its other outputs/features, I didn't pursue a demo.  Out of curiosity I'd like to demo the new integrated to hear how it compares to the Tambaqui + Kalugas, but would never  do that unless I was intending to trade in my separates (no desire to do so).  

[yyz]

Maybe 5 pages of posts ago (I think on this tread?) I am and someone else were wondering how the Benchmark LA4 would fair against the Makua. They both have the same design ethos, "do not add anything to the sound". The LA4 maybe even quieter than the Makua. Well I decided to get the Benchmark HPA4 to try. The HPA4 is the same as the LA4 with the additional THX based headphone amp. This and price were also other factors in favor of the HPA4 over the Makua. If the HPA4 was not to my satisfaction the Makua was the backup option but would take longer to save the pennies.

 

The HPA4 sounds pretty incredible to me even with a $1580 external Benchmark DAC3B. Unfortunately, I did not have the chance to compare the Makua with the HPA4. My guess is that they are similar, especially after reading posts on "Whats Best Forum" where guys who owned $20K preamps and also bought the LA4, said that the LA4 was very close to the sound of their reference preamps. 

 

I want to get a second DAC for my system or a replacement DAC for the DAC3B. I am kind of happy with the DAC3B but my curiosity makes me want to try some others. The Tambaqui or the Denafrips Terminator Plus + GAIA are the 2 at the top of my list. The nice reports I am hearing on the RJ45 input of the Terminator can help with eliminating a streamer. A tube based DAC maybe also considered if I want to have a second DAC with a different sound signature.

[Stereophilus]

8 hours ago, PYP said:

 

I won't, because if you explained it I doubt I would understand it.      So many variables...   Is the eR feeding the CX?

Yes.  OM —> ER —> CX —> Makua

[Stereophilus]

5 hours ago, Matias said:

I had to change my DigIn board but it was impossible to ship my Makua back to the Netherlands, so after a few emails back and forth and paying for the new DigIn, they sent it along with instructions on a PDF and I changed it myself. It was really not hard at all, no soldering involved, just unscrewing and carefully unplugging a couple of thin wires, and assembling the new one back again. 15 minutes max. Shipping back to the factory maybe they update other stuff, I don't know, but for the DigIn board alone, it's quite easy really.

I think the Makua upgrade is a straight swap - old DigIn board out, new DigIn board with streamer in.

[Matias]

52 minutes ago, Stereophilus said:

I think the Makua upgrade is a straight swap - old DigIn board out, new DigIn board with streamer in.

Then they are definitely being conservative by requiring sending the unit back to the factory, in my opinion.