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Audiophile player - HQPlayer


murrayp

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No need to add anything, but indeed a pitty that we all spend so much wasted time on W7

 

E-MU 0404 USB is the only audio interface I have that can be easily moved between computers, and with that, using HQPlayer at 192/24, I have to admit I couldn't notice any apparent difference between different systems, including Linux.

 

Probably I'll have to try with something else too or listen more closely...

 

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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Miska, yes, you mentioned that a couple of times.

 

I sure won't tell you you must listen more closely, but I guess it is something in that area anyway. Of course we could keep hopes high and think your EMU is immune to this all, but I guess I have too many users with the most various DACs and soundcards, not to agree with the difference just being there. And it's not even close to minor; it would be the biggest value for money (at hopping back from W7 to Vista).

 

Also notice that by now people have been trying to eliminate as much as possible to flatten the possible differences (like minimizing the active services, playing from RAMDisk), me myself adding my own stuff in avoiding as much as I can think of that perceiveably comes from the OS, but it all doesn't help and the difference is audible within a few seconds really.

 

It just is so, or at least seems to be so, nobody being able to eliminate the difference.

Thus far.

 

Peter

 

PS: But hey, what if your software is immune to it all eh ?

Could be ...

 

Lush^3-e      Lush^2      Blaxius^2.5      Ethernet^3     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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But hey, what if your software is immune to it all eh ?

 

That's at least how I would prefer it to be.

 

Most of my interfaces are PCI cards with busmaster-DMA, thus the data transfer from the playback buffer to the DAC is done entirely by hardware. Naturally this is not the case for USB, but with async-USB it still shouldn't matter as long as buffer underrun on the device side doesn't occur.

 

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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Naturally this is not the case for USB, but with async-USB it still shouldn't matter as long as buffer underrun on the device side doesn't occur.

 

Well, listen to HiFace users, and you'll know enough.

 

But there will be a day we all understand.

Ok, me.

 

Thanks,

Peter

 

Lush^3-e      Lush^2      Blaxius^2.5      Ethernet^3     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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Well, listen to HiFace users, and you'll know enough.

 

I wouldn't go to blame operating system as a first thing for this...

 

At least I would gather wider selection of devices which don't have common components, including device driver and connection type. Does this happen with all different device drivers from different hardware vendors?

 

Somehow this kind of problem has to be narrowed down to problematic component in the chain. Otherwise it cannot be solved and remains at hands-waving level.

 

 

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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I wouldn't go to blame operating system as a first thing for this...

 

At least I would gather wider selection of devices which don't have common components, including device driver and connection type.

 

There is often enough effect/blame to go around that I usually share the honors with both the OS and device drivers, which leads me to another request, assuming the license of HQPlayer is one install on one computer.

 

I often evaluate several different computers and configurations to enable controlled comparisons in my quest to achieve superior sonics. The license evaluation period was fine for the first 30 days but assuming I purchase one license, can I easily transfer the key back and forth to different computers for future evaluations? Or does the license permit more than one install? If neither is true, my wish is for a demo version for owners of HQPlayer. Perhaps something that could be installed on multiple computers but quits after 5-20 minutes unless connected to the networked computer with the license.

 

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assuming I purchase one license, can I easily transfer the key back and forth to different computers for future evaluations

 

By uninstalling the software on one computer and installing in another one, yes.

 

Perhaps something that could be installed on multiple computers but quits after 5-20 minutes unless connected to the networked computer with the license.

 

Network licensing may be possible, I'll look into it for the upcoming releases.

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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  • 3 months later...

1. Version 2.5.5 dropped network licensing support. Does that mean that the only way to have HQPlayer on multiple home computers is to uninstall the software on one computer and install it on another? If so, is it a problem if the computers are not connected to the Internet?

 

2. Version 2.6.0 beta 1 includes preliminary support for direct/native playback from DSDIFF and DSF files to ASIO devices with DSD support. Can you provide a list of known compatible hardware for native DSD playback?

 

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Version 2.5.5 dropped network licensing support. Does that mean that the only way to have HQPlayer on multiple home computers is to uninstall the software on one computer and install it on another? If so, is it a problem if the computers are not connected to the Internet?

 

Nobody used network licensing (license server + clients), so I dropped it for now. Currently installation or use doesn't require internet connection. License text explains terms of use...

 

Can you provide a list of known compatible hardware for native DSD playback?

 

Currently there's no ready made hardware suitable for this that I would know of and could afford. Only some development/prototype hardware. That's why the feature is in beta state and will remain that way until I get my hands on some generally available hardware for testing purposes. Success/failure reports are always welcome. :)

 

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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The license doesn't seem to be within the program.

 

License text is shown during the installation and can be also found from the installation directory as a file (HQPlayer-EULA.rtf). I'll also add it the next manual version and probably add a start-menu link to it too.

 

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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Had a bit of a play with HQplayer. it does sound 'clean' and upfront, but found it not as musical and spacious as J River using the original WASAPI (not the event style).

I wrote up another post here at CA about a trick i found to make J River sound nicer. I use Original WASAPI, with buffer set at 1.99 seconds (or the largest buffer size you're DAC will work at) and the Pre-Buffer set at 20seconds (not the default 6 secs). You might have to enable 'flush device buffers on start up', found in the WASAPI settings, to stop stuttering when hitting play. to me still the best sounding solution I've found.

 

Roon  |  Metrum Acoustics Ambre Streamer & Onyx NOS DAC  |  Nakamichi BX-300  |  Technics SL-1210GAE & Ortofon 2M Black  |  Yamaha T-7

McIntosh MA352  |  JBL L82 Classic  |  Inakustik Interconnects & Speaker Cabling  |  IsoTek Power Management

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J River using the original WASAPI (not the event style)

 

I'd guess that would use WASAPI Shared mode, which means sending audio through Windows rate converter and mixer. What then happens depends on relation of device format set in interface properties and used material.

 

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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Although this is a most difficult thing to judge without hearing the complete "picture", generally a more spatious sound is a property of (technically) not-good-sound.

 

Once upon a time there was no way for me to differentiate between uncompressed WAV and 256Kb MP3. Participated in a real good setup test and all, and I couldn't do it.

Today ? today this is a 1 second job. An MP3 sounds more spatious, especially in the bass. Sound stage is WIDER.

 

... Which immediately urges for the question whether a wider sound stage is better at all, and ... where is the optimimum.

 

I must add that it needs a real low jitter "system" to unveil this instantaneously, which in the end *is* all about jitter, and how MP3 works to get its job done.

 

I myself won't state that the "non event" JR will be Shared Mode per definition, and all I know is that JR can play in this mode unnoticed. So, just saying.

AFAIK only Foobar and XXHighEnd just can't play otherwise than in Exclusive mode (WASAPI that is), so once you have sound from it, you *will* be okay. Even the event version of JR can theoretically play in Shared Mode, but whether JR prevents that from happening I don't know.

 

Btw, whether HQPlayer just "will not" play in Shared Mode I don't know, so that is for Miska to add (to my list :-).

 

Regards,

Peter

 

Lush^3-e      Lush^2      Blaxius^2.5      Ethernet^3     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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Foobar and XXHighEnd just can't play otherwise than in Exclusive mode (WASAPI that is)

 

You can add HQPlayer to the list too.

 

whether HQPlayer just "will not" play in Shared Mode I don't know

 

Only WASAPI Exclusive mode is supported, it doesn't have code at all for Shared mode. And in addition there's an option to use ASIO (2.2) instead.

 

On Linux it uses only ALSA hardware devices and in addition tries to make sure that those are really actually hardware-backed.

 

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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You made it to my list. Haha.

 

Good.

 

But seriously, I don't like to spread wrong things, which I do sometimes anyway. That would be *not* good.

 

Lush^3-e      Lush^2      Blaxius^2.5      Ethernet^3     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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J River using the original WASAPI (not the event style) is in exclusive mode. J River has 2 versions of WASAPI. WASAPI original uses the standard windows buffers, the other, event style uses another buffering system. not sure exactly about their buffer implementation, but both ARE exclusive modes.

 

 

Roon  |  Metrum Acoustics Ambre Streamer & Onyx NOS DAC  |  Nakamichi BX-300  |  Technics SL-1210GAE & Ortofon 2M Black  |  Yamaha T-7

McIntosh MA352  |  JBL L82 Classic  |  Inakustik Interconnects & Speaker Cabling  |  IsoTek Power Management

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A bit offtopic by now, maybe ...

 

WASAPI original uses the standard windows buffers, the other, event style uses another buffering system. not sure exactly about their buffer implementation,

 

Buffering system will be the same, but if I needed to explain it I'd probably make a nice vague story about it.

 

The "non-event" will work with timers, and the "event" works with events. Both will sound different because of different OS activities. Btw, still bit perfect.

 

Since WASAPI always was (and still is) a half-baked sound mechanism, the event means didn't work at first. As many things didn't, and still don't.

 

FYI : What has been theoretically good (for SQ) in Vista, has been taken out in W7 (and didn't come back in W7 SP1 either, though things do work differently there).

 

but both ARE exclusive modes.

 

That either CAN I sure believe. That it can't switch to Shared Mode ... not.

Based on past versions, and I don't keep up with it. To me there also doesn't seem logic for a player like JR to not allow Shared Mode.

But let's at least stop *this* discussion in here (not saying I want to have the last word on it :-).

 

Peter

 

Lush^3-e      Lush^2      Blaxius^2.5      Ethernet^3     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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"But seriously, I don't like to spread wrong things, which I do sometimes anyway. That would be *not* good."

 

I think you may have done that in your previous post ?

Also,if you had difficulty telling the difference between 256KBS Mega Poop 3, and the regular CD with a good recording, methinks you had a serious problem with blocked ears back then !

 

(I wish we had some smilies here !)

 

Regards

Alex

 

 

 

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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Also,if you had difficulty telling the difference between 256KBS Mega Poop 3, and the regular CD with a good recording, methinks you had a serious problem with blocked ears back then

 

Well, you know it. Can't be worse than yours ?

(yeah, where are those smilies !!!)

-> An undercover joke between Alex and me.

 

I guess this is (or should be) general progression in audio. Back at the time (could be 2003 or 2004), exactly nobody passed the test. Well, my system sure improved since then.

 

Regards,

Peter

 

 

Lush^3-e      Lush^2      Blaxius^2.5      Ethernet^3     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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" today this is a 1 second job. An MP3 sounds more spatious, especially in the bass. Sound stage is WIDER.

 

... Which immediately urges for the question whether a wider sound stage is better at all, and ... where is the optimimum."

 

Peter

As for you saying about hearing very little difference between 256 KB MP3 and CD, it begs the question "If everybody thought this, what would be the point of your highly regarded Phasure NOS DAC ?

Alex

P.S.

Instead of bandying about the word "soundstage", perhaps we should be referring to a sense of being there ?

A good recording should also have the illusion of depth and height, just like the Chesky recording of a storm does, even after conversion back to stereo ?

 

 

 

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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As for you saying about hearing very little difference between 256 KB MP3 and CD, it begs the question "If everybody thought this, what would be the point of your highly regarded Phasure NOS DAC ?

 

I really don't have a clue what you are talking about ! (again)

 

But I suppose your question goes "deeper" than I can comprehend ?

 

But let me try to be ahead of things, and give some commercial answer. Well, not really meant like that, but it sure is part of the one second job :

 

First off, I am yet to see people not failing such a test today, but as said, all proceeded, so why wouldn't we all be able to hear the difference right away. So, YMMV and/but I don't think it is important. What *is* (at least to me) is the perception of the spatiousness including the wider sound stage. Btw :

 

Instead of bandying about the word "soundstage", perhaps we should be referring to a sense of being there ?

 

No ... why ? We (well me) are talking about a clear difference between uncompressed and poop. Ok, MP3. The being there also works with a 50dB SNR cassette tape. Or can at least.

 

What does make a difference though is listening to the difference through the NOS1 because it carries an "infinite" channel separation, which is THE difference between this DAC and any other. This also clearly shows the "wrong judgement" my mixing engineers, now suddenly many albums seem to be too hard panned - listening through a common good DAC that "being" not that hard panned at all. But hey, truth is truth.

 

Whether this was something for an answer I don't know (because I really didn't get it), but the little small subject was the maybe illogical phenomenon of more bad sound creating a wider sound stage. It just does, and if anyone can perceive this clearly, it's an NOS1 owner.

That this helps at differentiating between MP3 and uncompressed is one thing, but that it really needs low jitter to perceive it easily, is another. To me this latter makes much sense, because not thinking about "spatiousness" a first thing at least *I* will recognize an MP3 (no A-B needed) is in the bass. 100%.

 

Peter

 

PS: Reading your question once again, maybe the normal answer should be : ... because at least then you won't be playing an MP3 ever again because it sounds so lousy ? Or better : - because uncompressed can sound SO good ?

... and forget about hires ? (the latter certainly is not a commercial or something, because it just *is* so ... and I am always saying this, as has it been my sheer objective, so much 16/44.1 being around).

 

 

 

Lush^3-e      Lush^2      Blaxius^2.5      Ethernet^3     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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""This also clearly shows the "wrong judgement" my mixing engineers, now suddenly many albums seem to be too hard panned - listening through a common good DAC that "being" not that hard panned at all. But hey, truth is truth."

 

O.K. I can completely relate to that too, because my home brew gear uses dual mono techniques to achieve maximum channel separation.

This infers also that my DACs which have been heavily modified in the PSU area, also have far better than average channel separation and perhaps S/N as well ? You are talking here about a wider soundstage, but you haven't said anything about the associated depth of image.

There is much more to the overall picture than whether the "soundstage" is between the speakers, or extends past the speakers on both sides. I do agree that it needs low Jitter to perceive such things clearly. I think that we have both already agreed that a low Jitter file DOES sound better at the low end.

 

" because at least then you won't be playing an MP3 ever again because it sounds so lousy ? Or better : - because uncompressed can sound SO good ?"

You are certainly correct about that ! (grin!)

However I completely disagree about what you are saying about high res material. I find good high res material markedly superior to that of a well recorded CD, although some well recorded CDs can sound very good indeed .

Perhaps your playback electronics (preamp, poweramp, headphone amplifier etc ). need to be brought up to the standard of your Phasure NOS DAC ? (I am stirring !)

Regards

Alex

 

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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