Audirvana 3.1

[Bootzilla]

I pretty much stopped using the Bridge II input on my DS after I bought a Matrix X-SPDIF 2 D-to-D converter, which enables me to access the DS's IS2 inputs.  I am using a cheap HDMI cable between the Matrix and the DS and the sound is meaningfully better than playing the same tracks into the Bridge II.

[tobes]

12 hours ago, Bootzilla said:

I have A+ v3 and a PS Audio DS Sr. DAC with a Bridge II network card.  I stopped trying to get them to work together after many hours of frustration. 

 

I bought A +1.5 and the following 2.X and 3.X upgrades. When I found the issues with the A+3.X bridge mode connection I posted on the A+ forums including debug report and log files.

I never received any feedback from Damien - nor anyone else on that forum.

 

I drew the conclusion that there aren't many A+/directstream users that find Bridge II operation to be that important. I can see from Damien's point of view that he probably has more broad based problems to deal with.

 

I may investigate that I2S adapter you're using. Thanks for the tip.

[jamesg11]

On 04/03/2018 at 12:10 PM, tobes said:

 

I bought A +1.5 and the following 2.X and 3.X upgrades. When I found the issues with the A+3.X bridge mode connection I posted on the A+ forums including debug report and log files.

I never received any feedback from Damien - nor anyone else on that forum.

 

I drew the conclusion that there aren't many A+/directstream users that find Bridge II operation to be that important. I can see from Damien's point of view that he probably has more broad based problems to deal with.

 

I may investigate that I2S adapter you're using. Thanks for the tip.

Is this similar to the issues I have with A+ 3. & using ultraRendu plus macmini in bridge mode a la “a novel way to massively improve SQ ...”?

No success at all getting A+ stable, doing anything much ... & yeh, Damien looked at it, but no suggestions.

Roon is fine.

[barrows]

On 3/3/2018 at 6:10 PM, tobes said:

I drew the conclusion that there aren't many A+/directstream users that find Bridge II operation to be that important. I can see from Damien's point of view that he probably has more broad based problems to deal with.

Damien would likely have to work together with PS Audio to get this working.  Since PS Audio is developing a new Bridge hardware, and their own complete software player system they may not be interested.  It takes two to tango!  So i would not blame Damien.

Note that Sonore makes the ultraDigital with I2S output as well...  Although Sonore VP uses the Signature Rendu SE via USB and the DirectStream DAC and finds that this approach offers the best possible sound quality (if you do this remember to remove the Bridge II card as it will still be powered up inside the DAC, spreading around a bunch of noise).

 

@jamesg11

One other note: remember so called "bridge mode" is not standard, not really recommended, and not really supported.  Additionally there is no known technical reason why doing such would offer any advantage in sound quality.

[rodrigaj]

To add to what @barrows has contributed, you can at least hear what A+ v.3 has to offer with just the PS Audio DSD and Bridge II. I won't work perfectly (tracks won't advance, timer slider won't work) but you can listen to its effect and poke around its library functionality and decide if you wish to pursue using it. My experience has been that A+ deserves the attention it gets. If Octave wasn't on the close horizon, I would jump at the Rendu USB input solution.

[barrows]

I would also add that Audirvana+ has very good sample rate conversion, and I would expect the PS Audio DriectStream to respond really well to this.  There is no way that little FPGA in there can be doing an optimum up conversion to DSD with its limited power.  I would not be surprised if one got a nice sound quality improvement by oversampling everything to DSD 128 in A+ and then sending it to the DirectStream, then the DirectStream would just need to do the much easier job of converting to 20x DSD...  Worth a try at least.  

[rodrigaj]

I upsample off line to DSD64 using Yuri's AuI software. I can't go higher since the Bridge II is limited to DoP DSD64. With my previous DAC and Rendu Renderer I was able play DSD128. Direct comparisons between DSD64 and DSD128 showed only a slight increase in SQ. But DSD is a big improvement over the original FLAC files.

 

I tried listening to the FLAC files thinking that the DSDAC was upsampling everything but there was no comparison. The difference is in the sound stage and ambience in the recordings. This is especially noticeable with string quartets, trios, etc...

 

[jamesg11]

7 hours ago, barrows said:

Damien would likely have to work together with PS Audio to get this working.  Since PS Audio is developing a new Bridge hardware, and their own complete software player system they may not be interested.  It takes two to tango!  So i would not blame Damien.

Note that Sonore makes the ultraDigital with I2S output as well...  Although Sonore VP uses the Signature Rendu SE via USB and the DirectStream DAC and finds that this approach offers the best possible sound quality (if you do this remember to remove the Bridge II card as it will still be powered up inside the DAC, spreading around a bunch of noise).

 

@jamesg11

One other note: remember so called "bridge mode" is not standard, not really recommended, and not really supported.  Additionally there is no known technical reason why doing such would offer any advantage in sound quality.

I guess an obvious question is -

 

has anyone got A+ 3. working properly in bridge mode with an ultrarendu ...?

[buonassi]

On 11/9/2017 at 10:55 AM, Innocent Bystander said:

 

If that is the case, it means there are two different implementations of integer mode, and people need to bear in mind that any commentary on sound quality needs to be clear which is being used or compared - i.e.

A) Direct Mode Integer Mode (1 or 2) = shortest path if the manual is correct, and minimal reliance on Apple.

B) Core Audio (or Indirect) Integer Mode (1 or 2) = the only option post Sierra unless the Direct Mode fix is applied.

 

This is aside from the manual description under Direct Mode being misleading - something hopefully for @damien78 to amend some time.

I agree, worth amending/clarifying.  Your summary is succinct.  I've tagged Damien so he puts it on his "to do" list perhaps.

 

On 1/5/2018 at 9:26 AM, mazuly said:

Not sure if there are other plugins that can be used with A+ but someone please correct me if I am wrong.

 

 

I use multiple AUs from different venders and they all work fine.  

On 1/5/2018 at 8:03 AM, quark said:

 does anyone know if  you can still use direct mode and exclusive mode when using a plug-in?

 

And if so, does anybody know any excellent plug-in that can soften sound a little without removing any of the detail? 

 I have absolutely no experience with audio plug-ins :-) 

 Thanks for any help 

 

yep, you can use AU plugins with exclusive and direct mode (and integer modes 1/2 for that matter) - the AUs work no matter your setup to the DAC.  I can confirm this now that I've hacked to use direct mode.  The only time I've had the AUs not work was when using dragonfly red setup as an MQA "renderer" and playing an MQA file without upsampling.  For some reason, my AUs didn't get applied to the stream.  When I set it as a "decoder" the AUs worked.  No biggie, I'm not really into MQA anyway, was just playing around. 

 

You can always get a top shelf EQ plugin to shape sound to your liking.  Do some sine sweeps and see what frequencies are bothersome, attenuate them a couple dB.  But go big here, cheap software, cheap results.  DMG Equilibrium or FabFilter ProQ2 are the top choices if you want to preserve the sonic quality most effectively.  After numerous "free" EQ plugins, I finally got FFPQ2 and never regretted the purchase.  The quality difference is apparent in doing fast switching A/B comparisons via "real time" AU configuration (bypassing).  

 

The best free EQ was MeldaProduction MEqualizer.  You can play around with that and see if EQing works on your "harshness" issue.  If it does, then you can invest in an expensive plugin.  MEqualizer still sounded darn good and only fell behind when using multiple very steep notches.  So if you're just smoothing out one area, it may work just fine!  

 

Feel free to post or PM me and I can help with EQ tips/questions etc. 

 

 

[bazzvid]

Hi those of you who are running El Cap and Qobuz and having freezing issues ,assuming you've got System optimizer on with all boxes ticked you will also need to UNTICK  'Allow spotlight suggestions in spotlight and look up ' that's in mac preferences/spotlight.

[OtisGus]

All of whatever you all are talking about is over my head. It would take some time and research to understand the tweaks you’re apparently doing with the software.

 

I recently spent what I feel is a good bit of money for Audirvana. It sounds great setting it up following the manual’s instructions. 

 

I have 8 gigs of memory on my late 2015 iMac. This is the only program that has slowed down my computer. Is there anything I should do to make Audirvana use memory more effectively? Or is the program commonly memory hungry? It slows down a lot when I’m editing metadata in a separate application, as Audirvana is updating the library. 

[damien78]

Regarding the memory used during playback, you can reduce the amount of pre-allocated memory for the audio buffers (audio system page of the preferences) if you want to get more RAM available for other memory hungry applications.

 

Regarding the database itself, you may want to defragment it: Use the File menu command Library > Optimize Database...

[OtisGus]

Great! I’ll try that. Thank you for your prompt reply!

[buonassi]

FWIW, I've never found a+ to be a drag on my computer unless I'm upsampling. Also, I typically only load 1024mb in the settings regardless of when upsampling or not.  

[buonassi]

Regarding upsampling PCM to DSD using SoX, what effect do the different selections have - A 4th order, B 7th order, etc.  ???

 

In my limited understanding, a higher order process modulates the signal additional times to decrease quantization (non-linearity) errors.  Do I understand that right?

 

Also, what are the differences between A,B,C here?  There's no explanation on the A+ site or in the manual.  

[Jud]

3 hours ago, buonassi said:

Regarding upsampling PCM to DSD using SoX, what effect do the different selections have - A 4th order, B 7th order, etc.  ???

 

In my limited understanding, a higher order process modulates the signal additional times to decrease quantization (non-linearity) errors.  Do I understand that right?

 

Also, what are the differences between A,B,C here?  There's no explanation on the A+ site or in the manual.  

 

Modulation works slightly differently than upsampling, but in general a higher order modulation will produce a signal with lower noise. (A while ago @mansr posted curves showing the noise from the various modulators at the various DSD rates.)

 

I'm not quite certain of the A, B, and C categories, but have been told B7 and C are identical.

[rodrigaj]

3 hours ago, buonassi said:

Regarding upsampling PCM to DSD using SoX, what effect do the different selections have - A 4th order, B 7th order, etc.  ???

 

In my limited understanding, a higher order process modulates the signal additional times to decrease quantization (non-linearity) errors.  Do I understand that right?

 

Also, what are the differences between A,B,C here?  There's no explanation on the A+ site or in the manual.  

Scroll down to @mansr . I found this explanation and the discussions that followed very good.

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/27759-audirvana-plus-251-with-pcm-gtdsd-conversion/?page=47

 

[buonassi]

got it, thanks.  I had been searching on CA for "upsampling" and not "conversion".  Nonetheless, you saved me about 40 pages of pre-discussion.  My thanks to both you @rodrigaj and @Jud

[OtisGus]

I have defragmented the library as suggested by damien78. Audirvana works fine and smooth. Then when I updated an album cover within the Audirvana application, I got the spinning beach ball for a long enough time that I was considering terminating Audirvana. I don’t have any other applications running. Safari is not running. 

 

I have an iMac 5K 8GB memory AMD Radeon R9 M395 3.3GHz Quad-core Intel Core i5. Are there settings on my computer or Audirvana that would solve this problem?

[OtisGus]

I also want to add that I really like Audirvana.

 

I guess I’ll need to add some memory to my computer if I want Audirvana to perform as fast as I would like it to. I am interested in knowing how  much memory other people are using.

[RunHomeSlow]

if it doesn't buffer fast enough or skip while playing, you need more if not why change it?

You surely don't need it for your cover spinning beach ball, that is not normal behavior.

Does it still do that when you change a cover?

[OtisGus]

Yes, I get the beach ball anytime I edit a track within Audirvana. The beach ball goes away when Audirvana finally updates the library's track. 

 

 

[RunHomeSlow]

you might want deleting it... and reload it.

Mine have 35000 songs and when i sync in preferences panel, it take only like 10 seconds with a late mac mini 2012, 16gb memory.

 

Go in pref panel, library tab and delete the folders you have there with the minus sign in left bottom of window.

Close A+.

Go to User folder... Home Folder... Library... Applications Support... Audirvana Folder...
Trash All the files in that folder, that is your database of music, back it up! or not

Restart Mac. Restart A+, and add a library folder.

If not asked, go the pref panel and add one in library tab. WAIT till it finishes loading, before playing songs or doing editing.

 

you could delete those files too if you want or it did not cured your bug:

If you have playlists export them first...

Go to User... Home Folder... Library... Preferences...
trash com.audirvana.Audirvana-Plus.plist in that folder (those are A+ software preferences)
Go to User... Home Folder... Library... Caches… com.audirvana.Audirvana-Plus
trash the files in that folder

[RunHomeSlow]

Apple hide the Home Folder in User Library at some time depending on OS System... When you have clicked your Home Folder, and cannot see the Library Folder in there, just do a ''cmd J'' to show the folder settings preferences and see at the bottom... click Show Library Folder and then you'll have access to the rest forever.

[OtisGus]

Wow thanks so much for taking the time to help solve this! I will dig into this tomorrow, my day off.

 

I like the icon. Saw Frank many times back in the day. Always a good show!