Kii Three - my impressions and pro reviews

[fas42]

15 minutes ago, grubble said:

Immediate notes & reactions:

* amazing amount of clarity 

* where is all this bass coming from?

 

 

The sense of intense bass from a system is not about whether very low frequencies are present or not, but whether the waveform of the notes associated with the instrument creating them is reasonably accurately reproduced or not. Something that very few seem to appreciate,  ...

[kumakuma]

Deleted

[firedog]

10 hours ago, grubble said:

mmediate notes & reactions:

* amazing amount of clarity 

* where is all this bass coming from?

* some midrange warmth missing compared to my old Sonus Faber Olympica IIIs

* my audiophile power cords obviously weren’t part of the plan when they designed the back panel

 

Clarity-if you listen to any kind of popular music with singing, you will understand lyrics that you didn't previously. It's actually sort of amazing that the clarity is that much greater than even many very good conventional setups.

 

Midrange: I think the Kiis are simply reproducing what's there. If you playback digitally, you can use DSP to add a slight warmth to the mids if that's your preference. I do it thru software for almost all recordings. You can also do it via the Kii Control PEQ but that's a bit clunkier in getting the exact result you want. 

[grubble]

19 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

The sense of intense bass from a system is not about whether very low frequencies are present or not, but whether the waveform of the notes associated with the instrument creating them is reasonably accurately reproduced or not. Something that very few seem to appreciate,  ...

Correct. Having listened to various speakers/gears over the 20+ years of this "hobby" to familiar music, what's coming from the Kii Threes is really tight bass that I can hear more of due to the directivity nature of these. With the Olympica IIIs, it was harder to dial in, especially with an extremely challenging room (20 ft x 19 ft) where room nodes were not ideal and freedom of placement was limited (by the wife of course). 

 

8 hours ago, firedog said:

 

Clarity-if you listen to any kind of popular music with singing, you will understand lyrics that you didn't previously. It's actually sort of amazing that the clarity is that much greater than even many very good conventional setups.

 

Midrange: I think the Kiis are simply reproducing what's there. If you playback digitally, you can use DSP to add a slight warmth to the mids if that's your preference. I do it thru software for almost all recordings. You can also do it via the Kii Control PEQ but that's a bit clunkier in getting the exact result you want. 

 

Yes, I heard details in one of the tracks from Sync24 (Album: Source) which I never noticed before. And the vocals on Birds (Dominique Fils-Aime), which was very good on the Olympica IIIs, contain a bit more air and sharper definition than I heard previously.

 

Still figuring out the PEQ stuff and will need to play around when I have some more quiet time later on.

[Kelly]

https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/kii-bxt/
 

A new review of the Kii BXT from a 6 moons affiliate. Nothing particularly new here, but a good read if you’re interested. 

[fpalm69]

Thanks for sharing the review.  That was a very accurate description of my experience with the 3/BXT in my set-up.

[Kelly]

I did notice that review said the Kii contained Purifi modules. Did they change the internal electronics? The Kii website says “Full Custom Class D.” 

[firedog]

2 hours ago, Kelly said:

I did notice that review said the Kii contained Purifi modules. Did they change the internal electronics? The Kii website says “Full Custom Class D.” 

I don't think that's correct. I remember reading a few years ago that Kii was a separate company from Hypex and Purifi.

Bruno designed those modules, but he doesn't own the Hypex tech, and I don't think he owns the Purifi tech either (the companies do, AFAIK).

 

The Kii originally had amps based on a Bruno design that was, as I understood, similar to his other designs ( I assume Hypex NCore because of the age of the Kii design) but not identical, b/c he didn't have the rights to the tech and possibly b/c it was cheaper/better for them to use a custom design for a build as unique as the Kiis.

 

I'm pretty sure it isn't Purifi, either. 

I don't think they'd change the amp design at this point in the life cycle of the product. And if it was actually a Purifi model, it would be good marketing both  for them and for Purifi to say so outright.

"Custom Class D" (by Bruno) sounds about right. Probably using his best ideas at the time of the Kii design.

[Kelly]

Crazy good deal on a full Three/BXT system…

 

https://reverb.com/item/68991404-kii-audio-three-bxt-premium-monitor-system-used

[kamil]

On 3/20/2023 at 10:26 PM, firedog said:

I don't think that's correct. I remember reading a few years ago that Kii was a separate company from Hypex and Purifi.

Bruno designed those modules, but he doesn't own the Hypex tech, and I don't think he owns the Purifi tech either (the companies do, AFAIK).

 

The Kii originally had amps based on a Bruno design that was, as I understood, similar to his other designs ( I assume Hypex NCore because of the age of the Kii design) but not identical, b/c he didn't have the rights to the tech and possibly b/c it was cheaper/better for them to use a custom design for a build as unique as the Kiis.

 

I'm pretty sure it isn't Purifi, either. 

I don't think they'd change the amp design at this point in the life cycle of the product. And if it was actually a Purifi model, it would be good marketing both  for them and for Purifi to say so outright.

"Custom Class D" (by Bruno) sounds about right. Probably using his best ideas at the time of the Kii design.

According to this, Kii Three now uses Purifi amplifiers throughout.

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=183791314649970&set=a.103416632687439

 

[ragwo]

33 minutes ago, kamil said:

According to this, Kii Three now uses Purifi amplifiers throughout.

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=183791314649970&set=a.103416632687439

 

That's interesting. If that's true, I wonder what the cost of an amplifier upgrade will be, if Kii provides the service.

[Emlin]

3 minutes ago, ragwo said:

That's interesting. If that's true, I wonder what the cost of an amplifier upgrade will be, if Kii provides the service.

I think it's much more likely to be a mistake by the distributor. 

[kamil]

8 hours ago, Emlin said:

I think it's much more likely to be a mistake by the distributor. 

I think not a mistake, this looks to be on the official Kii Facebook site.

 

[ragwo]

3 hours ago, kamil said:

I think not a mistake, this looks to be on the official Kii Facebook site.

 

And suddenly my BXTs sound even better, thanks to placebo. On the other side, my audiophila nevrosa upgraditis has kicked in. Could my Threes benefit of the Purifi amplification? 

[firedog]

3 hours ago, ragwo said:

And suddenly my BXTs sound even better, thanks to placebo. On the other side, my audiophila nevrosa upgraditis has kicked in. Could my Threes benefit of the Purifi amplification? 

Yep. I am thinking about adding the BXT, I like that it has Purifi.

Could any of hear the difference if the Kii Three was updated to Purifi from the older design? I doubt it. 

Resist the thought. It really is just audiophilia nervosa.

Now, if they changed the design to use Purifi drivers that probably would be audible. That would make it a different speaker with different characteristics. 

It may be that any new models that come out will be all Purifi components. 

[Emlin]

8 hours ago, kamil said:

I think not a mistake, this looks to be on the official Kii Facebook site.

 

I stand corrected. Thanks for putting me right. 

[pam1975]

is it actually possible to upgrade amps in the Kii Three ? do they offer the service?

[ragwo]

32 minutes ago, pam1975 said:

is it actually possible to upgrade amps in the Kii Three ? do they offer the service?

I've no idea, and honestly, my wallet doesn't wanna know. But if you contact Kii, please paste their response here.

[ragwo]

Curiosity killed the cat.

I've contacted Kii regarding the Purifi amplifier modules. I'll keep you posted.

[Emlin]

2 hours ago, pam1975 said:

is it actually possible to upgrade amps in the Kii Three ? do they offer the service?

What makes you think that it would be an upgrade? There's zero chance that there would be an audible difference just from swapping the amps. 

[pam1975]

5 hours ago, Emlin said:

What makes you think that it would be an upgrade? There's zero chance that there would be an audible difference just from swapping the amps. 

isn't that a bit of a bold statement? i'm not saying you're wrong, I just wouldn't know and not sure you would either unless you have info I don't have. Mind sharing your thoughts there?

[firedog]

15 minutes ago, pam1975 said:

isn't that a bit of a bold statement? i'm not saying you're wrong, I just wouldn't know and not sure you would either unless you have info I don't have. Mind sharing your thoughts there?

I tend to agree with him. In general the main upside of Purifi amps is very low distortion and suitability for stability in 2 ohm loads.

 

Extremely doubtful you can hear the difference in the already minimal amount of distortion. And  inside the Kii, the specialized NCore type amps are already specifically designed for the Kii's. I doubt there's any problem of matching to the drivers. 

 

I'd think the only way there could be a difference would be if there is some significant change in the power profile of the amps. Doubt there is. If there was some significant sound difference, I'm sure Kii would be trumpeting it instead of keeping it low "key "(sorry).

 

My guess is that either there are economic (cost) advantages in using the Purifi amps, and/or just the desire to be up to date and have "the best"; this woluld also apply if we can assume any future Kii speakers will use Purifi. There are lots of reasons then to start using them already. There could, of course, be some kind of legal, administrative, or licensing advantage to using Purifi. Especially as there is some common ownership between the companies.

[pam1975]

1 hour ago, firedog said:

I tend to agree with him. In general the main upside of Purifi amps is very low distortion and suitability for stability in 2 ohm loads.

 

Extremely doubtful you can hear the difference in the already minimal amount of distortion. And  inside the Kii, the specialized NCore type amps are already specifically designed for the Kii's. I doubt there's any problem of matching to the drivers. 

 

I'd think the only way there could be a difference would be if there is some significant change in the power profile of the amps. Doubt there is. If there was some significant sound difference, I'm sure Kii would be trumpeting it instead of keeping it low "key "(sorry).

 

My guess is that either there are economic (cost) advantages in using the Purifi amps, and/or just the desire to be up to date and have "the best"; this woluld also apply if we can assume any future Kii speakers will use Purifi. There are lots of reasons then to start using them already. There could, of course, be some kind of legal, administrative, or licensing advantage to using Purifi. Especially as there is some common ownership between the companies.

great insights, thank you for sharing and educating me :)

[H665]

I went to Kii’s open house last year and their team mentioned that they had to redesign some electronics due to the shortage of certain chips at the time. Not sure if this was only limited to the DSP  or that it also included the amp modules. But considering it was not just a simple swap of components they might as well have added newer  amps. Might explain the price hike 😉

[ragwo]

I've received a reply from Kii, and an hardware update is possible. All internals except the PSUs and drivers need to be swapped, as I understand.