Kii Three - my impressions and pro reviews

[baconbrain]

I would like to refer to a question from @Mazza which was asked a couple years ago ..

 

Has anyone further experimented with placing a higher quality DAC in front of the Kii's and then feeding them purely with an analog signal? If so, I would be interested if the Kii's retained the sound signature of the upstream DAC or not.

 

Thx

[baconbrain]

8 hours ago, Cazzesman said:

 

@baconbrain

Hi BB,

 

I have been researching the heck out of various subs to see what might work with the Kii's.

 

The usual suspects that are easily accessible locally include REL, SVS, Rythmik and JL Audio.    REL seem to get the consistent tick of approval when matched for music.  

 

I notice that most of the REL's in my price range the 7i  (-6dB at 28 Hz) and the and 9i (-6dB at 30 Hz) are actually not going as low as the Kii's currently in my room.     

 

What sub are you using and do you find the sub actually goes lower than the Kii's?

 

How have you matched it/them to the Kii's.   Minidsp?

 

Am I missing something with the REL specs.   -6db at 30htz seems strange for a subwoofer.

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

Hi Cazzesman,

 

When I selected my current sub, a JL Audio Fathom F112, my criteria were more focused on Sub Type (ported vrs. sealed), percieved speed of the driver, and driver size. I believe that all of the manufactures you are referencing will be able to go low enough to compliment (or replace) the low end of the Kii's. Of course, when it comes to making a final choice, the best bet is to audition where possible and find the sw which matches your personal preferences.

 

Have you read the sw integration info from Barry Ober (aka the Sounddoctor)? If not, it is very good, and although somewhat JL SW specific, highly recommended. Here the link: http://www.soundoctor.com/whitepapers/subs.htm

 

In regards to bass management, I am using a Trinnov Amethyst which makes SW Integration much, much, easier. Really recommend investing in this type of solution given that a successful integration is key.  There are many solutions out there. DSPeaker, MiniDsp, Trinnov, to name a few. 

 

Hope this helps. 

  

[baconbrain]

7 hours ago, ShawnC said:

Are you sending the Trinnov signal to the speakers as digital or analog?  Just curious since any of these speakers will run it through there own DSP and DACs. 

 

I am sending a digital signal to the Kii‘s and an analog signal to the SW from the Trinnov.

[baconbrain]

16 hours ago, bobfa said:

Is anyone using HQPlayer with the Kii's?  I am starting to play with HQplayer on my Antipodes CX+EX and am interesting in not going over covered ground if possible.  

 

I have PCM up convert working and I am trying to do DSD up convert.  I am using Roon to drive things.

 

 

Hi Robbie,

 

I am using HQPlayer with the Kii's and really enjoy it. To my knowledge we haven't covered it to much in this thread given that Kii doesn't really encourage up-sampling, etc. but I personally would appreciate hearing your impressions.

 

BB

 

PS: Nice review on your JCat / JPlay article.

[baconbrain]

15 minutes ago, bobfa said:

Can you share your settings for HQPlayer?  I am having trouble getting DSD upsampling to work,   I have something wrong!.  I am also looking for some sort of manual or description of all the filters and stuff..  I have not yet purchased the software I am running it in demo mode.

 

Kii does not talk a lot about how to improve SQ around them.  One of the biggest things I did recently was to separately power the Kii Threes and the BXTs. So I have four Puritan Audio Power Cords to the PSM158.  

 

RJF

Could you share a few more details as to your HQPlayer setup? I am assuming you are connecting straight into the Kii Control via USB? Does PCM upsampling work?

[baconbrain]

50 minutes ago, Blade1001 said:

What is the point in upsampling to DSD when everything has to be downsampled to 24/192 PCM for the Kii's?

 

Would you not be better putting HQPlayers re-sampling algorithms to better use converting everything to 24/192 PCM?

That is a valid question which has been raised a couple of times in this thread. For me it is not so much the SR itself but the filters used. In this regard, HqPlayer has a wide variety to experiment with.

 

[baconbrain]

46 minutes ago, bobfa said:

I really do not know what is really the best method fo the Kii.  Grand experiment. 

 

What is a good starting point for the Kii’s?

 

 

I would start with basic PCM to PCM up-sampling and take it from there.  Feel free to reach out via PM if you get stuck. 

[baconbrain]

12 hours ago, fpalm69 said:

 I just tried the Chord Hugo TT2 DAC via XLR analog input to the Kii Three speakers.  Yes, it sounded better then the same music file level matched via USB into the Kii Control.  There was a bit more air/space between the musicians giving the impression of better resolution and overall more relaxed and musical.  Not night and day difference but over careful listening over several days switching back and forth I conclude the Hugo DAC sounded better then going through the Kii Control.

So, even with the Kii DSP converting/resampling the Hugo DAC analog signal it still came through as better SQ to my ears.  The standard Kii Control signal path had a fatter bigger soundstage, more forward where instruments tended to blend together.  Through the Hugo is was more reserved, relaxed, everything in it's place with a nice separation between instruments and vocalists.

 

I wonder it the upcoming Kii Preamp will improve the SQ over the Kii Control?  Seems there might be some room for improvement.

I use the Roon Nucleus via USB to the Kii Control, no other streamers or extra devices (I've tried several).  Would like to try the Innous Phoenix USB device.

 

Thanks for the feedback. At least theoretically, a higher quality D/A conversion in front of the Kii could make sense ...

 

Kii Preamp? Do you have more info?

[baconbrain]

18 minutes ago, firedog said:

Not long after the Kiis came out there were dealers who claimed they'd heard of a Kii Preamp-essentially an larger and/or upgraded Control -  in the works. Since then, AFAIK, no one has any actual information about it and Kii has never said they are working on one. 

I'd love it if someone has concrete info about one, and I'm pretty sure I'd trade my Control for one, unless it has a price in the stratosphere. 

 

Yes, I remember the rumors. Would be fantastic if they added room correction and bass management ....

[baconbrain]

1 hour ago, Emlin said:

 

How? The Kii will immediately convert the analogue back to digital in order to do its DSP tricks. No way round that.

 

Hi Emlin,

 

Would applying this logic mean that the SQ remains unchanged regardless of the quality of the analoge input signal? If so, I personally have had other experiences ...

[baconbrain]

Well somehow the rubber ring on the knob of my Kii Control dried out and started to break apart. (sometimes in the afternoon the sun shines on it ..)

 

So I sent a mail to Kii Support and one day later they said they would send me a replacement. Well the replacement arrived and look what they sent me ...

 

Two rubber rings and some cool promo gear! Big thanks to Riu the Germany Area Kii Sales Manager!!

[baconbrain]

20 minutes ago, ragwo said:

Sounds like excellent service! 

I have gotten new amplifier and PSU boards during the last year, but didn't get promo stuff. Did the t-shirt fit? 

 

Haven‘t tried it on yet but the size is right!

[baconbrain]

On 7/2/2020 at 3:05 PM, Cazzesman said:

Like every part of this hobby it is just a hypothetical Work in Progress.     The idea is to free up the bottom end of the Kii 3's.   Provide them some head room and at the same time gain some further bottom end and great SPL overall.

 

Is it all worth the $$$$.  Yeah/Nah; I have no idea, if I'm honest. 

 

 

Missed this post ...

 

Not sure if you have placement restrictions in your listening room, but I wouldn’t worry to much about going to all the trouble of building a fancy box for the SW‘s. Sometimes the most unorthodox placement of them in a room can give you the best listening results, and if you successfully find that sweetspot, then you have won 70% of the integration battle.

 

IMO your idea about freeing up bottom end for Kii‘s, while increasing SPL, (and soundstage btw.) is spot on. I would start with a good sealed SW, plus a quality bass management solution, and take it from there. I would be really surprised if you are disappointed.

 

Have fun!

[baconbrain]

On 7/5/2020 at 2:09 PM, Wazzup said:

Hi ,

 

I am currently using a KII audio three with an Kii control (both 2nd hand for a good price). Usually i am playing using a laptop connecting through the usb port.

 

I want to include a streamer (don't need a dac because dacs are included in the kii system itself)

At the moment i am leaning towards a Lumin u1, an optical rendu or Sim Audio Mind2. I have a nuc who might will be assigned roon core duties(will allow me to do Eq-ing in roon) . However if i will go with a Lumin i will be able to connect to with spdif or usb and with the optical rendu with usb only. Btw i have a android tel i will use for control functions

 

My question is does somebody have experience with the sound difficences or will that be minimal being that the kii connect is quite good already (even with a laptop). Right now i am a little undecided because i am also using deezer hifi which is only supported by bluos devices ) that would be a plus for Sim audio MIND 2 (supports also Amazon hd and deezer hifi). It owuld be difficicult to get these devices at homw to test them. Esp. i like to buy 2nd hand stuff.

 

So anybody having experience with the above streamers (specifically regarding sound)???

 

 

I owned the first version of the SIM Audio Mind and although the SQ was quite good, their App was just the opposite. Of course, that doesn‘t mean that V2 is the same. Also owned a micro rendu and was really impressed with it. Excellent SQ and ease of use. Haven‘t had a chance to play with a Lumin.

[baconbrain]

12 hours ago, MarkS said:

I’m thinking hard about this speaker system. Anyone using a high end server (e.g., antipodes, Innuous, Taiko) to go single wire AES into the “master” Kii. I am a 100% digital source person, so I am not sure I need the Kii control, unless there is an advantage to the Kii control thst I am not understanding.  

Hi MarkS,

 

I am feeding my Kii's directly with an AES signal from my Trinnov and it works great.

 

Also ended up buying a Control (post purchasing the speakers) given that it makes life so much easier for things like changing DSP settings, firmware updates, etc.

[baconbrain]

On 2/28/2021 at 11:58 AM, Beren said:

 

Funnily I ended up with very strong toe-in: 45° in fact. Has anyone else ever tried that?

 

 

Nice looking setup! In regards to toe-in, each listening area is different, so imo, there is no golden rule. Enjoying what YOU are hearing, is the most important reference point.

[baconbrain]

On 10/11/2022 at 2:49 PM, fpalm69 said:

Hey Kii Three fans,

 

I am looking to implement the Kii system into a multichannel set up.  So far I have two Kii Three/BXT and another pair of Kii Three's so a total of four.  Moving towards a stereo / Home Cinema set up with surround.  Maybe one more Kii Three for the center with Kii Three/BXT for left and right all behind an acoustically transparent drop down screen.  The other pair of Three's for the rear surround.

 

Thinking about using an AV processor with analogs out to Kii analog XLR inputs.  Will still use my streamer with Kii control for stereo mode and raise the screen.  Set up two profiles in the Kii control - one for stereo and the other for cinema.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks!

 

Wow, would love to hear it when you have it finished.

 

You will definitely need a good Multi-Channel DSP Pre-AMP (as recommended by @Blade1001) to deal with the timing and phase alignment issues. Here I would also strongly recommend the Trinnov series.