Popular Post Cazzesman Posted August 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 25, 2019 33 minutes ago, TheStupidOne said: My girlfriend doesn't like the ugliness of the subs though, so I don't know if I will/can keep HER Edited for accuracy. Regards Cazzesman Saburo, TheStupidOne and ragwo 1 2 Link to comment
firedog Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 1 hour ago, TheStupidOne said: My girlfriend doesn't like the ugliness of the subs though, so I don't know if I will/can keep them. Sell them and get some nicer looking ones. There are lots of perfectly nice looking ones that are also good subs. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
TheStupidOne Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 But the BXT is too expensive😜 Link to comment
firedog Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 1 minute ago, TheStupidOne said: But the BXT is too expensive😜 Yep. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 1 minute ago, TheStupidOne said: But the BXT is too expensive😜 Yep. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted August 26, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 26, 2019 Just wanted to say that for various reasons, I'm now listening to the Kiis directly over USB from my server to the Kii contol - and they sound great. Always realized that the USB implementation on the Kiis was really good, but I'm really not missing my expensive streamer in the setup. I plan on going back to a streamer for software/convenience/multiroom reasons not directly connected to SQ, but am pretty sure it won't be an uber priced audiophile one. I'm just not hearing something that makes me think it's worth the bucks. TheStupidOne and mitchco 2 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Blade1001 Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 7 minutes ago, firedog said: Just wanted to say that for various reasons, I'm now listening to the Kiis directly over USB from my server to the Kii contol - and they sound great. Always realized that the USB implementation on the Kiis was really good, but I'm really not missing my expensive streamer in the setup. I plan on going back to a streamer for software/convenience/multiroom reasons not directly connected to SQ, but am pretty sure it won't be an uber priced audiophile one. I'm just not hearing something that makes me think it's worth the bucks. Which streamer did you have? Link to comment
firedog Posted August 26, 2019 Author Share Posted August 26, 2019 8 minutes ago, Blade1001 said: Which streamer did you have? Bricasti M5, which was fine. No complaints other than the fact that they apparently have zero plans to improve, add features, etc. to the software. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Popular Post Blade1001 Posted September 3, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2019 On 8/23/2019 at 10:38 AM, mitchco said: Great question! I don't have an answer as I liked both speakers a great deal and could easily live with both. One part of me believes the magic Bruno has achieved as the most neutral speaker out there. i.e. no colour at all - truly neutral. The other part of me is trying to reconcile if I like that sound or not. I think I do. It reminds me of Rythmik subs and their Direct Servo technology. Very understated and dry sounding as their distortion measurements confirm on https://www.data-bass.com versus other subs. but that is what I have in my system today. What can I say 🙂 Well, I've finally just completed a week long home audition of the Dutch & Dutch 8c' to be able to compare with my previous home audition of the Kii Three's, so I thought I'd answer the same question I asked of you. I didn't have as much free time with the Kii Three loaners as I would have liked, so I only used OTB settings tweaked a little using the Control unit. With the 8c's I had more time to EQ them in properly, and my REW measurements came out pretty much exactly the same as yours by the time I'd dialled them in. Subjectively I think I preferred the Kii's by quite a substantial margin. For me on the 8c's it just seems that the leading edge of sounds are not as distinct, and are somehow slightly rounded off. Boosting the treble controls by a couple of dB helped, but sounded more of an artificial enhancement. On the Kii's there was so much more of the clarity and resolution to individual notes and sounds that I was used to with my outgoing Salon 2's. On the 8c's the whole sound stage is more homogenous, and less clearly defined. With the Kii's I could clearly identify instrument placement left or right of centre by varying degrees of placement, and even well out beyond the speakers themselves - there was just so much three dimensional resolution. With the 8c's instruments are either approximately centre, or tied more closely to either speaker, and have much less of that sense of three dimensional space. I have read others describe the Kii's as more 'holographic' and the 8c's as producing more a 'wall of sound', and I think those are pretty fair descriptions to what I experienced in my room. Also for me, the 8c's just didn't have the bass definition. When I first set the Kii's up, it was immediately clear that I was listening to a very different design, the upper bass in particular was dramatically tight, punchy and controlled in my room, far more than my Salon 2's could achieve - it was a bit of a jaw drop moment if I'm honest. The 8'c just couldn't couldn't do that, no matter their position, combination of settings or EQ used. In their defence the 8C's seemed to have a more prodigious 'quantity' and depth of bass available (certainly in my room it took a fair bit of taming) but the quality of that bass was much the same as other standard speakers I've used. This is not to take anything away from the 8c's as such - given the high quality of sound they can achieve in and of themselves, and their set-up flexibility, they surely outclass traditional hi-fi systems of much higher cost, but for me personally, they just couldn't match the Kii's, and whats more I sent the Kii's back feeling that with more set-up time, I could have got even more out of them. So, its a pair of Kii Three's for me. TheStupidOne, Bernstein, Craig1512 and 6 others 5 3 1 Link to comment
Bernstein Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 22 minutes ago, Blade1001 said: Well, I've finally just completed a week long home audition of the Dutch & Dutch 8c' to be able to compare with my previous home audition of the Kii Three's, so I thought I'd answer the same question I asked of you. I didn't have as much free time with the Kii Three loaners as I would have liked, so I only used OTB settings tweaked a little using the Control unit. With the 8c's I had more time to EQ them in properly, and my REW measurements came out pretty much exactly the same as yours by the time I'd dialled them in. Subjectively I think I preferred the Kii's by quite a substantial margin. For me on the 8c's it just seems that the leading edge of sounds are not as distinct, and are somehow slightly rounded off. Boosting the treble controls by a couple of dB helped, but sounded more of an artificial enhancement. On the Kii's there was so much more of the clarity and resolution to individual notes and sounds that I was used to with my outgoing Salon 2's. On the 8c's the whole sound stage is more homogenous, and less clearly defined. With the Kii's I could clearly identify instrument placement left or right of centre by varying degrees of placement, and even well out beyond the speakers themselves - there was just so much three dimensional resolution. With the 8c's instruments are either approximately centre, or tied more closely to either speaker, and have much less of that sense of three dimensional space. I have read others describe the Kii's as more 'holographic' and the 8c's as producing more a 'wall of sound', and I think those are pretty fair descriptions to what I experienced in my room. Also for me, the 8c's just didn't have the bass definition. When I first set the Kii's up, it was immediately clear that I was listening to a very different design, the upper bass in particular was dramatically tight, punchy and controlled in my room, far more than my Salon 2's could achieve - it was a bit of a jaw drop moment if I'm honest. The 8'c just couldn't couldn't do that, no matter their position, combination of settings or EQ used. In their defence the 8C's seemed to have a more prodigious 'quantity' and depth of bass available (certainly in my room it took a fair bit of taming) but the quality of that bass was much the same as other standard speakers I've used. This is not to take anything away from the 8c's as such - given the high quality of sound they can achieve in and of themselves, and their set-up flexibility, they surely outclass traditional hi-fi systems of much higher cost, but for me personally, they just couldn't match the Kii's, and whats more I sent the Kii's back feeling that with more set-up time, I could have got even more out of them. So, its a pair of Kii Three's for me. Congrats! Had the same „challenge“, observations and decision. Welcome to the family 😂👌 Link to comment
atletico Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 I sometimes use my Kii Three's as a test monitor for my own and my musician friends home-studio work before the finale mixing process. It's also a big help to use the KEF LSX in this process. Then I get two differnt approaches to the music. The KEF LSX will be allow to stay in my living room together with the Kii Three's who has taken care of all my "serious" listening to my favourite music now for more than two years. I'm still very happy with my Kii Three speakers but the BXT are still on my wishing list (Yes, I have done a long listing test to the full BXT system 😀👍) Auralic Aries G2 - Kii Control - Kii Three active speakers - OPPO BDP 95 - Clearaudio Concept turtable / AT-33 PTG II pu /Clearaudio Maestro Wood pu - Rega Fono MC riaa / Musical Surrondings riaa Head-fi: Beyerdynamic DT 1770 Pro - Shure SE846w/Silver Dragon - Chord Mojo Link to comment
Blade1001 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 38 minutes ago, atletico said: Yes, I have done a long listing test to the full BXT system 😀👍 What did the addition of the BXT module add to the performance of the Kii’s? Link to comment
TheStupidOne Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Am I allowed to chime in with my 2 cents? For me, the BXT adds three things; - Snappier, punchier and more exciting bass - better transient response and lower distortion, I guess? - Fuller upper bass/lower midrange due to the Line Source-concept/lack of floor dip. - A drier sound. The bass has less warmth due to the first point, which makes the overall sound seem a little colder with the same frequency response. I found that I needed a little more adjustment on the overall tonal balance with the BXT, but when I found a setting I found pleasing, the BXT just gives you so much more realism and tactile sensation at louder levels. Link to comment
atletico Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 15 hours ago, Blade1001 said: What did the addition of the BXT module add to the performance of the Kii’s? I think TheStupidOne ( who probally did his listenig experience with the same BXT set-up as myself ) has pointed very well out the differences and some of the main advatages of adding the BXT to the Kii Three. I will also add the overall presentage of the sounstage impressed me a lot, better 3D and placement of the instruments when listenig to my well known reference music...and the system also performed superb when playing at a lower level. TheStupidOne 1 Auralic Aries G2 - Kii Control - Kii Three active speakers - OPPO BDP 95 - Clearaudio Concept turtable / AT-33 PTG II pu /Clearaudio Maestro Wood pu - Rega Fono MC riaa / Musical Surrondings riaa Head-fi: Beyerdynamic DT 1770 Pro - Shure SE846w/Silver Dragon - Chord Mojo Link to comment
TheStupidOne Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 Excellent point, the size and 3D experience of the soundstage (and acoustic sensation of the arena) increases dramatically in realism when you have real authority in the deep. The vastly increased sensation of space is my favorite addition with my poor man's Bxts, and of course with the real Bxts also! Link to comment
Blade1001 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, TheStupidOne said: Excellent point, the size and 3D experience of the soundstage (and acoustic sensation of the arena) increases dramatically in realism when you have real authority in the deep. The vastly increased sensation of space is my favorite addition with my poor man's Bxts, and of course with the real Bxts also! My next question was going to be whether the BXT's add anything over what you have achieved with standard subwoofers? Link to comment
TheStupidOne Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 I don't know. While I have listened a few times to BXT in a room I know fairly well after many a demo, I haven't had them home yet. My living room is not nearly the same size as the dealer's, nor do I have the possibility to place my system where it sounds the best, so I can't answer that with a straight face. What I do know is that the capacity is roughly the same with 4x 10" woofers in much larger cabinets and I have the same capability in timing thanks to Audiolense. The BXT would, presumably, decrease the energy of first reflection from the front wall in the bass range and focus more energy towards the listening position due to the cardioide dispersion. Would it matter much in a small room with acoustically difficult placements? I don't know, I'd have to try, measure and hear it back-to-back. Although I'm sure it would be possible, I'm hesitant to ask my local dealer because the price is too steep for me at this time. Photo of dealer's room; Link to comment
Blade1001 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 16 minutes ago, TheStupidOne said: I don't know. While I have listened a few times to BXT in a room I know fairly well after many a demo, I haven't had them home yet. My living room is not nearly the same size as the dealer's, nor do I have the possibility to place my system where it sounds the best, so I can't answer that with a straight face. What I do know is that the capacity is roughly the same with 4x 10" woofers in much larger cabinets and I have the same capability in timing thanks to Audiolense. The BXT would, presumably, decrease the energy of first reflection from the front wall in the bass range and focus more energy towards the listening position due to the cardioide dispersion. Would it matter much in a small room with acoustically difficult placements? I don't know, I'd have to try, measure and hear it back-to-back. Although I'm sure it would be possible, I'm hesitant to ask my local dealer because the price is too steep for me at this time. Yep, whilst the cardiod dispersion - presumably down to a frequency lower that the 80Hz achieved with the main unit - sounds beneficial, as does the elimination of floor bounce (though I'm still not clear exactly how they achieve that), another £17k on top (at UK pricing) seems a bit steep. I could get 5-6 very good quality subs for that lol How many drivers are on the rear of the BXT? The blurb on the Kii Audio website reads: Quote The BXT is an extension module which turns the Kii THREE into a veritable floor standing loudspeaker with 16 additional drivers. I count four on the front, two on each side, and I had assumed 4 at the rear - making 12 additional drivers in total? But then the Tech Specs on the full Kii Three + BXT system state: Quote Technical Specification: Full-size floorstanding DSP controlled monitor speaker system. 12 x 6.5” woofer, 1 x 5” midrange, 1 x 1” waveguided tweeter. Amplification: full custom class D, 250W per drive unit, arranged in 6 groups.[/QUOTE Which suggests there are none on the rear of the BXT? Can anyone clarify? Link to comment
TheStupidOne Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 It's 8 drivers on each Bxt x 2 = 16 Link to comment
Blade1001 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, TheStupidOne said: It's 8 drivers on each Bxt x 2 = 16 Ah, I see. So nothing on the rear at all then? Link to comment
TheStupidOne Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 No, and that surprised me as well. Whether that has any influence on cardioide dispersion pattern or not remains to be seen by independent measurements. Anyone seen any measurements of the BXT? Link to comment
Blade1001 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, TheStupidOne said: No, and that surprised me as well. Whether that has any influence on cardioide dispersion pattern or not remains to be seen by independent measurements. Anyone seen any measurements of the BXT? No, I've only seen some FR measurements with the BXT module in place - of course that didn't look significantly different to the FR on just the Three on its own. I've not seen any cardioid pattern heat graphs of the BXT though. Given the cost (and therefore the limited interest in it), we're probably not likely to. I couldn't even find an image of the complete rear of the BXT unit! Link to comment
baconbrain Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 4 hours ago, Blade1001 said: My next question was going to be whether the BXT's add anything over what you have achieved with standard subwoofers? I have listened to both the BXT and separate Subwoofer setups and my personal preference clearly lies with separate Subwoofer(s). IMO they enhance the soundstage imaging more than the BXTs. Link to comment
Blade1001 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 49 minutes ago, baconbrain said: I have listened to both the BXT and separate Subwoofer setups and my personal preference clearly lies with separate Subwoofer(s). IMO they enhance the soundstage imaging more than the BXTs. Interesting feedback. So do you run a subwoofer or subwoofers yourself for music? How is everyone that is using subwoofers running them? As left and right subs, or in mono to produce smoother bass frequency response? Can I also ask everyone, what height have you found the Kii’s sound best installed at - tweeter at ear level, midrange at ear level, or somewhere in between? Link to comment
fpalm69 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, Blade1001 said: Interesting feedback. So do you run a subwoofer or subwoofers yourself for music? How is everyone that is using subwoofers running them? As left and right subs, or in mono to produce smoother bass frequency response? Can I also ask everyone, what height have you found the Kii’s sound best installed at - tweeter at ear level, midrange at ear level, or somewhere in between? Also, how do you adjust the subs for the 90 ms delay from the Kii dsp in exact mode? 2 channel : full Innuos suite / Black Cat USB cables / Kii Three BXT Desktop : Innuos PulseMINI / Roon ROCK / SaBaj A20d amp-DAC / DCA E3 headphones Link to comment
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