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Kii Three - my impressions and pro reviews

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The cable that came with my Kii 3 is an unshielded cat6.   Because both cables are 6+ metres long and my kiis are only 2 metres apart I was thinking about getting some replacements that are shorter and shielded.  

 

 And no I won’t be spending big bucks on the likes of Sotm cat7.    I struggle with that concept of  $$$, for something that in its most basic form is $3 per metre.

 

I’m guessing the shielded cat6 can’t do any harm vs the unshielded.

 

https://www.cablechick.com.au/cables/1m-cat6a-professional-rj45-shielded-ethernet-cable-black.html

 

Regards Cazzesman

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7 hours ago, Cazzesman said:

I’m guessing the shielded cat6 can’t do any harm vs the unshielded.

 

I went with CAT6 UTP, only a few pennies/m more than CAT 5. Made some minor differences to SQ, viz a bit less background noise/hiss when cranking vol upto max when no music playing. Musically, no perceptible difference, but obviously very, very difficult to ABX

 

I am not sure there is any benefit for going with CAT6 STP [shielded standard], the cable shield would need to be grounded at the source or the receiver. I don't know, but I'd doubt that this would be likely with most audio equipment inc the Kii's. Also, cable is a bit more inflexible because of the shielding and quite a bit more expensive.

 

I tried Audiouquest Vodka ethernet cables, that simulate the STP grounding by putting a voltage into the cable dielectric. Made no perceivable difference over the UTP cable. So that might give you some indication of how a STP might behave vs a UTP

 

Anyway, each to their own!


Aurender W20 Music Server, Kii Three Active Speakers, Kii Digital Controller

Audioquest Diamond USB, Audioquest Niagara 7000 conditioner, Audioquest NRG-1000 HC mains leads

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Thanks Mazza.   I spent a grand total of about $25 US for 2 cables as per above from CableChick.   Won't break the bank so I will let you know.

 

Regards Cazzesman.

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@Cazzesman 👍


Aurender W20 Music Server, Kii Three Active Speakers, Kii Digital Controller

Audioquest Diamond USB, Audioquest Niagara 7000 conditioner, Audioquest NRG-1000 HC mains leads

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On 8/7/2019 at 2:31 PM, Cazzesman said:

I spent a grand total of about $25 US for 2 cables as per above from CableChick.   Won't break the bank so I will let you know.

 

We look forward to it as well. It'd be interesting to know about your findings as one of ours is tempted by Kii very much. 


Our PowerStation is here: click me!

 

Check out our Tidal MQA Set-up Guides below. 
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New cat6e double shielded cables finally arrived.   Nothing special price wise.  Purchased from CableChick as listed above.

 

Probably did 1/2 hour of initial testing once Kii3’s had been running for a few hours.

 

Tried 4 or 5 tunes, alternating b/t Kii’s original cat 6 unshielded and cat6e double shielded.

 

Finally settled on 1 track that was fairly dynamic.   Toto’s - I will Remember - Tambu CD.    Big rolling drum sound left to right and clean vocals from Lukather up front.    My 1st thought is there is some difference.

 

Cat6 is a tad larger in overall scale across the soundstage and a tad more forward in the vocal presentation.    Cat6e is possibly slightly cleaner in presentation with a fractionally smaller soundstage.    I am only talking small degrees of sound stage and 3d imaging.   Cat 6e presents like focusing a camera.   6e is just marginally more infocus that the Cat6 but the Cat6 looms marginally bigger in scope and imaging front to back.

 

Intriguing on first listen.   I know zero about any possible Lan cable burn in so I won’t go there.    I will get another set of ears in for a listen on the weekend.

 

I will try some different tunes this evening and see where we are at.

 

This is just one mans sensory perception so take it for what it is after a mere 30 min snap shot.

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Cazzesman said:

Cat6 is a tad larger in overall scale across the soundstage and a tad more forward in the vocal presentation.    Cat6e is possibly slightly cleaner in presentation with a fractionally smaller soundstage.    I am only talking small degrees of sound stage and 3d imaging.   Cat 6e presents like focusing a camera.   6e is just marginally more infocus that the Cat6 but the Cat6 looms marginally bigger in scope and imaging front to back.

 

 

 

My interpretation is that the 6e cable is doing things to get the sound in better shape - more forward is a sign of lesser SQ; cleaner in presentation, focusing a camera are markers of improvement.

 

The takeaway is that the Kii Threes are too sensitive to the quality of that link; firstly because you could hear a definite difference, and secondly because the extra shielding has moved the SQ in the right direction.


Frank

 

http://artofaudioconjuring.blogspot.com/

 

 

Ahhh, Mankind ... Porsche intellect, Trabant emotions ...

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1 minute ago, fas42 said:

 

My interpretation is that the 6e cable is doing things to get the sound in better shape - more forward is a sign of lesser SQ; cleaner in presentation, focusing a camera are markers of improvement.

 

The takeaway is that the Kii Threes are too sensitive to the quality of that link; firstly because you could hear a definite difference, and secondly because the extra shielding has moved the SQ in the right direction.

 

I look forward to your blind ABX test results with interest. For now, it's just blah.

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1 hour ago, TheStupidOne said:

In my experience, if any difference is so hard to hear that you need to focus really hard and switch back and forth to maybe hear a slight nuance, then that difference is far more likely to be a product of the mind than a product of actual differences.

 

You want a bigger soundstage? Get some more distance between the speakers, toe them in or out a little more or get yourself dsp to fix the bass issues and add some low-end heft. That'll work every time - and no need to focus to hear it.

 

Cat cables changing tonality in the recordings is not and will not be possible anytime soon. If a digital cable changes the data, I'd like that cable to transfer digital bits from my ATM to my bank account. Maybe I'd suddenly be very rich by accident.

 

You first paragraph I except and you are possibly/probably right but I guess posters here live a large proportion of their audio lives on perception, otherwise the threads here would be blowing tumbleweeds.

 

Your 2nd - Not what I was discussing here and I wasn't chasing a bigger SS etc etc   It was about being curious about having Unshielded Cat6 cable supplied with my Kii 3 speakers vs trying out a double shielded Cat 6e version for minimal dollars.

 

Your 3rd -  I really have/had no idea if changing Cat cables can alter the sound hence my desire to trial.    Perhaps you can replenish your bank balance with the use of some cables from Sotm or some other cable 'Specialist's who are charging $$$$$ for a Cat7 cable.    Alas those Cat Cables have the reverse effect you are after.    The money flows out not in.😮

 

As I mentioned above my Cat6e testers cost about $24 US.

 

Regards Cazzesman

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On 8/14/2019 at 2:46 PM, TheStupidOne said:

Here example of one speaker without and with eq to show distortion, and finally a comparison with actual anechoic measurement that shows the same tendency around 200 hz;

 

 

Thanks for this!


Our PowerStation is here: click me!

 

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To my eyes, those distortion artifacts arising from attempting to EQ the speaker are due to a significant issue with the cabinet not being mass loaded sufficiently - I would aim to give the speaker effectively vastly greater 'weight' by some means - and then see what the measurements showed.


Frank

 

http://artofaudioconjuring.blogspot.com/

 

 

Ahhh, Mankind ... Porsche intellect, Trabant emotions ...

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On 8/14/2019 at 8:15 AM, firedog said:

I'd prefer this thread doesn't get turned into a cable argument thread. If someone wants to post their personal impressions of cable switching/sound (when using the Kiis), that's fine. But not the back and forth about what cables can and can't do.  It's not a thread about cables. That belongs somewhere else. 
It hasn't happened yet, but if I think the thread goes really off track I'll turn to Chris  as the OP and request removal of posts. 

 

Are you suggesting that people who make extraordinary claims without extraordinary proof should go unchallenged? I know it's not a cables thread, so why let them make it such, with those with scientific doubt silenced?

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7 hours ago, Emlin said:

 

Are you suggesting that people who make extraordinary claims without extraordinary proof should go unchallenged? I know it's not a cables thread, so why let them make it such, with those with scientific doubt silenced?

Saying, " I switched cables and I heard X" isn't an "extraordinary claim" as you are simply writing about what you perceived. Nothing more.  What I perceive can't be challenged. It doesn't matter, even it is totally the result of expectation bias. You still perceived it. It's no different than if I write about what I hear differently when listening to the Kiis as opposed to my previous system. 
 

So I have no problem with that.

 

I do have a problem with making a more broad statement about what cables can or can't do (in addition to a specific personal experience), especially in this thread, which isn't a cables thread or one for debating the merits of cables. 
 

Get the difference? Not every mention of personal perception has to get turned into a debate about extraordinary claims, science, etc. If someone makes a broader claim about cables here I'll also ask them to stop. We have enough threads on this site that have gotten hijacked into being cable debate threads or something similar. If you want' to debate that , go somewhere other than this thread. 


Main listening (small home office):

Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>CAPS IV Pipeline Server + Sonore 12V PS >SOtM Lan Isolator>Bricasti M5 Network Player >Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.
 

Secondary Listening: CAPS Pipeline>IFi iOne DAC>Schiit Freya>Kii Three . Also an SBT and a RB Pi 3B+ running piCorePlayer as an SBT emulator. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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On 5/14/2019 at 4:35 PM, baconbrain said:

I have added a few highlights from the Munich High End Show (Tracks 18 - 28) to the Kii Three Community Tidal Playlist which you can access here:

 

 

https://tidal.com/playlist/768432eb-b8ba-4a1d-b90a-a4c9a9ba8d85

 

Enjoy

Try adding this one: Bruno Coulais, "Himalaya" soundtrack. Cut #2, "Norbu".


Main listening (small home office):

Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>CAPS IV Pipeline Server + Sonore 12V PS >SOtM Lan Isolator>Bricasti M5 Network Player >Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.
 

Secondary Listening: CAPS Pipeline>IFi iOne DAC>Schiit Freya>Kii Three . Also an SBT and a RB Pi 3B+ running piCorePlayer as an SBT emulator. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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On 8/16/2019 at 4:46 AM, fas42 said:

To my eyes, those distortion artifacts arising from attempting to EQ the speaker are due to a significant issue with the cabinet not being mass loaded sufficiently - I would aim to give the speaker effectively vastly greater 'weight' by some means - and then see what the measurements showed.

It could be, but they are more likely to be due to no internal damping so that reflections and backlash from other drivers are leaking through. Or it might possibly be room related. I will look into it when I have the chance. Am also looking into some midbass-help to see if that will help, some kind of poor man's Bxt.

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2 hours ago, TheStupidOne said:

It could be, but they are more likely to be due to no internal damping so that reflections and backlash from other drivers are leaking through. Or it might possibly be room related. I will look into it when I have the chance. Am also looking into some midbass-help to see if that will help, some kind of poor man's Bxt.

 

The internal reflection is managed by the DSP programming. The distortion is linked to the size of the enclosure - the drivers need to work „hard“ meaning the travel of the driver is increased which lead to higher distortion. This is nothing special to the KII, it is the very nature of loudspeaker design, especially if you force very low frequencies. Bigger enclosure would support generating lower frequencies without forcing long travel of the drivers. But having a bigger enclosure leads also to other difficulties. Limiting the KII to 30-35Hz is one very simple measure. More can be done by EQ etc.

Question is: Is it really audible for you under normal conditions?

 

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