Kii Three - my impressions and pro reviews

[baconbrain]

1 hour ago, Bart van der Laan said:

Gents,

 

Hold your horses, both camps are correct! 

 

You are very likely running different firmware versions...the only difference in these versions is a signal gain of 12dB. 

Looking at your stated numbers relating to limiter activity and boundary settings this matches exactly!

 

The gain increase request came from some customers who were using their Kii’s on the analog input with a relatively low output signal source (+4 dBu for example) whilst the hardware inside the Kii accommodates for 18dBu. This hardware design choice was based on requirements in the pro sector but in hindsight is not the best match overall.

These customers did not get enough SPL with their analog chain on full throttle.

The same is true on the digital inputs if you mix or master with small signal content on one of your channel strips.

 

At some point in time in the beginning of this year we decided to put this high gain firmware version on by default. It matches the majority of source devices out there better and is not harmful in any way.

There is a slight increase in hiss on the tweeter channel if you are on analog.

We decided not to go public with it since it is not a bug but a feature to be released in future along with some other updates.

 

There is no control dial for this on the speaker so it is not settable especially without a Kii Control present, and so for now it is just a matter of uploading the firmware version you desire if the speakers are already in the field.

We are planning to incorporate this in the Kii Control as a software control in a more extended way with source volume offset per channel but it is not realized yet and I cannot give you a definitive timeline on it.

 

These conversations are the main reason for me to refrain taking part of forum activities in general. I was made aware of the temperature of this thread and decided to step in. I do not plan to make a routine out of it since it distracts me from doing the things that make your music come alive

 

I sincerely hope this settles your debate and you can all sit back and follow Atletico’s example of share and enjoy! At whatever SPL floats your boat, although I do share the hope that everyone takes care about their hearing health.

 

If you have any questions, feel free to contact us directly, not through a forum please!

Like dustblue’s inquiry we always try to make an effort to answer as quickly and elaborate as possible. 

 

@dustblue, if you are still watching this feel free to share our message here we sent to you.

 

Thanks everyone for embracing our products!

 

Cheers,

Bart

Thanks Bart, that certainly explains it. 

 

I personally would really welcome it if the Kii Team would participate in the forum. Don’t get me wrong, your E-mail communication is excellent, but details like the above imo would certainly benefit the masses.

[firedog]

10 hours ago, baconbrain said:

Thanks Bart, that certainly explains it. 

 

I personally would really welcome it if the Kii Team would participate in the forum. Don’t get me wrong, your E-mail communication is excellent, but details like the above imo would certainly benefit the masses.

Yes, agree. I understand why you don't want to participate in forum debates, but occasionally chiming in with needed  information is a useful type of customer service. 

[2marco]

@atletico

did you succeed in fixing AriesG2’s usb ( with galvanic isolation ) to Kii’s usb ?

And if yes, how?

thanks

Marco

 

 

[atletico]

24 minutes ago, 2marco said:

@atletico

did you succeed in fixing AriesG2’s usb ( with galvanic isolation ) to Kii’s usb ?

And if yes, how?

thanks

Marco

 

 

My first Aries G2 would never work using the usb galvanic isolated usb out to Kii Control. The other usb port on Aries G2 ment for external HDD  however worked perfect connected to the Kii Control. I got a new Aries G2 from my dealer ( who also are the main dealer for Kii Three). My second Aries G2 has worked from day one without any usb problems using the dedicated galvanic isolated usb to the Kii Control.

[Mazza]

I have had some experiments with mains products which included the Kii's. Rather than pollute this this thread, you can see my post on this at:

 

 

[Craig1512]

A follow up to my post back on 28 October. The Kii Three distributer here in Australia whom I purchased my Kii Threes suggested the RCM Sensor 2 premium spec model (upgraded furutech RCA inputs, RCA & XLR outputs and IEC power inlet). I’ve had the Sensor 2 for a couple of weeks now, VPI Prime TT, 2M Black cart, XLR into the Kii Threes and sounds amazing. I’ve had many various vinyl front end setups over many years and this VPI Prime, Sensor 2, Kii Three combination is the best I’ve heard my LPs, really enjoying playing through my LP collection and listening to some great music. Highly recommend anyone going vinyl into the Kii Threes to try the RCM Sensor 2 and for Australian Kii Three owners, Rom at Sonic Purity in Melbourne is great to deal with, fantastic advice and customer service. 

 

I’ve got a Benz micro glider SL cart to try and will install at some stage.

[asiano]

Considering the Kii Three speakers for a living room system. The Pro version is less expensive with the Rugged High Density Grey Spatter finish. Does anyone know how that finish compares to the standard home finish (Graphite Satin Metallic)? Is the Pro finish suitable for a living room?

 

Also, the Kii stands are quite expensive. Any recommendations for less expensive stands that look nice and are sturdy enough to keep the Kii's secure? 

[firedog]

2 hours ago, asiano said:

Considering the Kii Three speakers for a living room system. The Pro version is less expensive with the Rugged High Density Grey Spatter finish. Does anyone know how that finish compares to the standard home finish (Graphite Satin Metallic)? Is the Pro finish suitable for a living room?

 

Also, the Kii stands are quite expensive. Any recommendations for less expensive stands that look nice and are sturdy enough to keep the Kii's secure? 

It's just a question of your personal taste. The pictures don't tell you the answer?

[sapporo]

I tested the Grey  and now have the Graphite. Much prefer the latter for home. For a pro environment it doesn't matter.

[asiano]

5 hours ago, firedog said:

It's just a question of your personal taste. The pictures don't tell you the answer?

 

I'm having a hard time finding great pictures of the Grey Pro finish. From what I can tell in the pictures, the Pro finish looks nice. From a color perspective, it seems similar to the Graphite. However, I can't get a good read on the texture of the Pro.  I can get the Pro for about $4k less for the pair. Maybe I need to negotiate a better deal for the Graphite (different dealer). I'm not sure what the current list price differential is for the two finishes as I know the Home version has went up in price over time.

 

It's a little easier to pay additional money for the speakers, if I can get a cheaper alternative for the stands without compromising on sound quality. It's much harder than I thought to find stands at the proper height with a big enough top plate that can support the speakers without fear of them being knocked over.

 

 

[fpalm69]

Keep looking for a set a stands on the used market, I have seen them come up.  Anything other than the Kii Three stand will be second rate.  It will also increase the value when you sell them to have a complete set-up.  Be sure to position and fill them with sand and level them out before placing the speaker on top.  A small amount of blu-tac will make the speaker couple solidly to the stand.  I also used a 90 degree IEC adapter so the power cord attaches straight down instead of sticking out behind the speaker.

While you are at it if you have not done so yet get the Kii Three Control, a must have.

[Mazza]

@asiano : The Kii's stands are good but they are nothing that special and there are literally dozens out there of similar or better quality at lower price. I have a pair of Custom Speaker stands [that is the name of the UK manufacturer] and paid about half-the price of the Kii stands. They have various in their range at all price points.... Mine happen to have the right size top plate, but they will make a custom sized plate for you if the stands you like don't have the right size as standard. 

 

+1 with the other posts about filling with sand or better still, the dedicated inert materials used for such a purpose.

[Ralf11]

has anyone used or tried the Kiii in a 'room' with a open floor plan?

[firedog]

3 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

has anyone used or tried the Kiii in a 'room' with a open floor plan?

Yes, but the total space is still not that large - about 40 sg m or 450 sq ft. The Kiis are fine for that in terms of how they function.

It all depends on how loud you listen and what levels of bass response you expect. At some point the Kiis aren’t going to be powerful enough for some people and some rooms.

[Kal Rubinson]

No but I was aware of their volume limitations even in my more traditional space.

[Emlin]

That said, I did sense a limit of how loud the Kii Threes would play. Putzeys explained:

"The average output in digital recordings varies between –4dB for a lot of modern pop and rock and –20dB for some audiophile recordings, especially classical. What other high-end systems do is simply put in so much gain that you can play quiet recordings ridiculously loud but the risk of what happens when they forget to take the volume down when playing something else is borne completely by the user! I don't find that an acceptable solution. So I set the input sensitivity such that a maximally loud signal replayed at 100 is the loudest the speaker can do (allowing excursion limitation for sub frequencies, of course). Normally speaking, good recordings will be mastered such that at least the loudest passage will actually hit full scale, give or take, which means that 100 is still as loud as the speaker will go and that ought to be plenty."

It was plenty—once I stopped trying to find the Kii Threes' limits and just paid attention to the music they made.

Kal Rubinson

[Kal Rubinson]

Well said. 😉

 

Adding to that, note:

Listening Room: 24' L by 14' W by 8' H, with 2 MSR Acoustics Dimension4 SpringTraps in front corners, 2 Ready Acoustics Chameleon Super Sub Bass Traps at sides, and moderately sound-absorbing furniture. Front wall has large windows partly covered by fabric drapes and 3" by 2' by 4' OC 705 panels. Rear of room opens into 10' by 7' foyer and 12' by 8' dining area.
 

[Ralf11]

I'm wondering how the DSP deals with 'large' spaces (or ported spaces...) - a large room has little boundary effect to deal with

[TheStupidOne]

The dsp doesn't pay attention to what room you place the speakers in. The settings for such are completely manual. 

[firedog]

4 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

I'm wondering how the DSP deals with 'large' spaces (or ported spaces...) - a large room has little boundary effect to deal with

If they are far away from walls you set the DSP accordingly. There's a series of boundary settings from "free standing" to "corner" placement. With the Control you can set multiple levels "in between" those.

[Ralf11]

Thx firedog

[firedog]

Well, I actually was without my Kiis for a few months. One stopped working and I sent them back to the factory for repair. It was a serious hassle from where I live to arrange "export for repair" and not to have to pay customs and VAT again when receiving the speakers back from repair. 

Kii at first offered to handle it all at their expense, but couldn't manage to arrange the shipping and customs issues from abroad. In the end I handled it and paid for the shipment to them. After arrival they told me one speaker was seriously burned out inside. I have no idea how this happened, and the other devices that were attached to the same power strip were all fine. They also informed me that some of the speaker drivers were damaged, apparently during shipment. 
 

In any case, they decided they couldn't repair this pair and be 100% sure that they would be "like new" and not cause further problems. So  they offered me a slightly used pair they had on hand for testing, and knew to perform at spec. No charge to me, and I was fine with this. They paid for shipment back and I received the "new" speakers today. They actually look like new and sound fine. So I'm happy. 

In the meantime I'd been listening to a conventional setup with a 40 year old pair of KEF standmounts, in an acoustically treated room. I thought that setup was pretty good (other than with symphonic music, where it just can't cut the mustard); but what a shock when I fired up the Kiis - I forgot how amazing they sound. 

In my opinion great customer service, and now I get to listen to all the music I bought in the meantime on the Kiis. 😂

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 minutes ago, firedog said:

Well, I actually was without my Kiis for a few months. One stopped working and I sent them back to the factory for repair. It was a serious hassle from where I live to arrange "export for repair" and not to have to pay customs and VAT again when receiving the speakers back from repair. 

Kii at first offered to handle it all at their expense, but couldn't manage to arrange the shipping and customs issues from abroad. In the end I handled it and paid for the shipment to them. After arrival they told me one speaker was seriously burned out inside. I have no idea how this happened, and the other devices that were attached to the same power strip were all fine. They also informed me that some of the speaker drivers were damaged, apparently during shipment. 
 

In any case, they decided they couldn't repair this pair and be 100% sure that they would be "like new" and not cause further problems. So  they offered me a slightly used pair they had on hand for testing, and knew to perform at spec. No charge to me, and I was fine with this. They paid for shipment back and I received the "new" speakers today. They actually look like new and sound fine. So I'm happy. 

In the meantime I'd been listening to a conventional setup with a 40 year old pair of KEF standmounts, in an acoustically treated room. I thought that setup was pretty good (other than with symphonic music, where it just can't cut the mustard); but what a shock when I fired up the Kiis - I forgot how amazing they sound. 

In my opinion great customer service, and now I get to listen to all the music I bought in the meantime on the Kiis. 😂

 

 

Have you found the root cause of the initial issue?

[firedog]

36 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Have you found the root cause of the initial issue?

No. I'm still discussing it with Kii. They originally suggested a lightning strike or power surge, but I'm skeptical, as  other electronics and the other Kii are on the same power strip, and nothing else was damaged, and nothing else in my apartment or my neighbors (I'm in a semi-detached).  I'll get back to Kii again and ask if they came up with anything. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, firedog said:

No. I'm still discussing it with Kii. They originally suggested a lightning strike or power surge, but I'm skeptical, as  other electronics and the other Kii are on the same power strip, and nothing else was damaged, and nothing else in my apartment or my neighbors (I'm in a semi-detached).  I'll get back to Kii again and ask if they came up with anything. 

I'm interested to know and I'd hate to see you in the same situation again.