Kii Three - my impressions and pro reviews

[dustblue]

5 minutes ago, Mazza said:

I have my CA profile set to email me posts to this thread and since the OP by @BlueDog on this subject, my inbox has had the 'benefit' of over 70 emails in the last 36 hours which must be a record! 

 

I am all for lively debates but as far as I can tell this particular discussion is just going around in circles, because the crux of the responses are always the same [putting exchanges of insults to one side]:

 

1. Playing the Kii's flat out is not recommended

2. Getting the 'red light' to come on only happens at very high SPL's 

3. Nobody treats them this way, so the only people who can answer the OP are Kii

4. The limiter works to protect the speakers but if one wants to know how, then speak with Kii

5. If one wants to damage their hearing then, yes, that can be done with the Kii's

 

And despite this, the OP still keeps asking the same questions.

 

I am going to disable the email notifications for this thread until this debate moves on........

 

No offence but you are wrong on your second point, you don't have to play really loud, just standard mixing level and you would definitely see it happens on so many tracks.

[firedog]

3 hours ago, dustblue said:

May I ask when you turned it all the way up, did you attenuated it in the preamp?(no full volume in the preamp/computer interface/dac or whatever processors before Kii threes)

Thanks. 

Not sure I understand. I don't use a preamp. Just digital input to Kii Control. No software volume control. All volume control is in the Kii Control.

[atletico]

1 hour ago, firedog said:

Not sure I understand. I don't use a preamp. Just digital input to Kii Control. No software volume control. All volume control is in the Kii Control.

Same here,  I use my digital Auralic Aries G2 fixed full level output - usb out to Kii Control. After following this tread about the rather silly subject of playing music at levels that could damage your ears, I did a test in my living room yesterday evening.

 

I have used the Kii Three for 16 months, booth for dedicated hi-fi listening and in my home studio, and yesterday maybe for the first time I turned the Kii Control at  around 85 from a digital source ( Aries G2)  on some really bass- heavy music. No red lights flashing  but after some minutes I turned the music down because  not disturbing my neighbors in the house close to mine. It was also simply far to loud in my room..and yes the advanced setting on the limiter was activated ("yes").

 

Playing my vinyl with the turntable phono preamp using the The Kii Three my settings are at max. 85-87 on the Kii Control because of -10 -12dB signal output compared to my digital sources. For 16 months I have never seen the limiter red lights flashing and I also want to keep my ears in good condition as long as possible.

[TheStupidOne]

Like I said, I've never seen the flashing red light on my set. Nowadays I use two subwoofers to remove the ringing in the time domain at lower frequencies in my room, so I won't bother to change the set-up to test specific songs just to see if I can get the lights to flash. I know they will flash eventually because those little drivers are not able to reproduce 20-30 hz at high spl levels due to physics.

 

If they flash at 80 or 85 or 90 on the display, what difference does it make? If you need to reproduce very low frequencies at high spl, you need subwoofers- end of story.

If you try to push normal passive speakers as hard as you do with Kii now, you'll end up with blown drivers. Passive speakers doesn't have driver security measures, so whether you call them Wilson, Focal or any other name, physics will not care and you will end up with expensive repairs sooner or later when the speakers are forced to reproduce low frequencies at too high spl.

 

A single 15" woofer will easily surpass Kii when it comes to bass output. Cost isn't even very relevant, any decently designed subwoofer will do just that.

 

If you don't need subwoofers in the small room you use now (you do if you care about sound quality and have no room for bass traps), wait until you actually get them in the big room to see if you need more spl capability then. Then you can spend a few hundred bucks on a minidsp and a couple of subwoofers and never worry about it again for the rest of your life.

 

The whole secret to get good sound is to acknowledge what particular needs you have. I think you failed in your analysis before you even considered Kii, because if you had thought about what you (think) you need, small speakers wouldn't even have crossed your mind.

 

Bxt system might be enough to your needs, but a couple of big subwoofers would easily beat even Bxt easily for pure spl capability alone. And would be cheaper.

[dustblue]

16 minutes ago, atletico said:

Same here,  I use my digital Auralic Aries G2 fixed full level output - usb out to Kii Control. After following this tread about the rather silly subject of playing music at levels that could damage your ears, I did a test in my living room yesterday evening.

 

I have used the Kii Three for 16 months, booth for dedicated hi-fi listening and in my home studio, and yesterday maybe for the first time I turned the Kii Control at  around 85 from a digital source ( Aries G2)  on some really bass- heavy music. No red lights flashing  but after some minutes I turned the music down because  not disturbing my neighbors in the house close to mine. It was also simply far to loud in my room..and yes the advanced setting on the limiter was activated ("yes").

 

Playing my vinyl with the turntable phono preamp using the The Kii Three my settings are at max. 85-87 on the Kii Control because of -10 -12dB signal output compared to my digital sources. For 16 months I have never seen the limiter red lights flashing and I also want to keep my ears in good condition as long as possible.

Thanks. I give up on forum replies.

Already sent email to a Kii engineer and waiting for his response.

Tidal to kii is my setup and maybe none of you used Tidal to see the results, every software/device may have different digital output sound level(even between spotify and tidal it's different), that's why I always emphasis on "Tidal".

And with tidal playing the tracks I mentioned, no matter through which computer, my kii threes would overload start from 77.

It's ok you are helping and I thank you for that, maybe I should not expect a scientific results from audiophiles. My bad.

 

[dustblue]

4 minutes ago, TheStupidOne said:

Like I said, I've never seen the flashing red light on my set. Nowadays I use two subwoofers to remove the ringing in the time domain at lower frequencies in my room, so I won't bother to change the set-up to test specific songs just to see if I can get the lights to flash. I know they will flash eventually because those little drivers are not able to reproduce 20-30 hz at high spl levels due to physics.

 

If they flash at 80 or 85 or 90 on the display, what difference does it make? If you need to reproduce very low frequencies at high spl, you need subwoofers- end of story.

If you try to push normal passive speakers as hard as you do with Kii now, you'll end up with blown drivers. Passive speakers doesn't have driver security measures, so whether you call them Wilson, Focal or any other name, physics will not care and you will end up with expensive repairs sooner or later when the speakers are forced to reproduce low frequencies at too high spl.

 

A single 15" woofer will easily surpass Kii when it comes to bass output. Cost isn't even very relevant, any decently designed subwoofer will do just that.

 

If you don't need subwoofers in the small room you use now (you do if you care about sound quality and have no room for bass traps), wait until you actually get them in the big room to see if you need more spl capability then. Then you can spend a few hundred bucks on a minidsp and a couple of subwoofers and never worry about it again for the rest of your life.

 

The whole secret to get good sound is to acknowledge what particular needs you have. I think you failed in your analysis before you even considered Kii, because if you had thought about what you (think) you need, small speakers wouldn't even have crossed your mind.

 

Bxt system might be enough to your needs, but a couple of big subwoofers would easily beat even Bxt easily for pure spl capability alone. And would be cheaper.

Thanks man, I chose another more casual path this time which is if I find a very good small sized speaker I buy it and use it for sometime and than decide where to put it(most likely cinema surrounds). genelec 8351, kii three all ended up in my small working room like this. ( last friday I almost took a pair of focal sm9 back, turned out there were two rusted screws and I gave up. or I would end up with 3 pairs of different active speakers in my small room now)

 

I never thought I'd put a small sized speaker like kii three in the big room, that's why I auditioned lots of big speakers. It's that kii threes are so good that makes me wonder maybe I can save 200 thousand dollars with it.

 

Again I thank you all for your help, I already caused some trouble here so I'll stop hi-jacking OP's thread and let kii engineer to solve the problem. 

 

If I get any interesting conclusion I would start a new thread.

 

Cheers.

[Jud]

8 hours ago, dustblue said:

I think I kind of confused you. You DO NOT have to listen at a ear piercing level to see kii threes overload, just turn the control to 80 volume, leave whatever preamp you are using at full volume(meaning dont attenuate the signal before it enters kii threes), play some high dynamic music and I bet you would see the limiter kicks in. 

At 80 volume if you sit 3m away from the speakers the listening sound presure level of standard pink noise would be most likely in the 70-75dB range, that’s even less than standard mixing level.

If you dont know what music is suitable for this than just listen to Yello.

 

“long or repeated exposure to sounds at or above 85 decibels can cause hearing loss.”

 

https://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/noise-induced-hearing-loss

 

If you burned out a driver in a reasonably sized room, you had an incapable amplifier or you were playing music loud enough to cause hearing loss.  The fact that you now often run into limiting at what you consider ordinary listening volume indicates either you have already damaged your hearing or will do so, or you are seated at a distance where you should be looking into PA systems.  (Not sure I understand the repeated references to “mixing volume” when you aren’t mixing. With regard to people who did mix albums, I saw a documentary on George Martin just a few days ago, and his difficulties with hearing loss later in life were quite sad.)

 

This is not something you should leave to math debates in an online forum.  There are a number of phone apps that will do just fine for the purpose of roughly determining the dB levels at which you’re listening. I personally use AudioTools on iPhone, but there are others.  If you are getting up near 85dB at your listening position fairly frequently, then you’ll want to become accustomed to listening at lower volume, and get your hearing checked.  If you are hitting limiting at much lower volume, then you will want to consider a cozier listening space or a different sort of system, perhaps something with higher wattage amplification and efficient horn speakers.

[dustblue]

22 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

“long or repeated exposure to sounds at or above 85 decibels can cause hearing loss.”

 

https://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/noise-induced-hearing-loss

 

If you burned out a driver in a reasonably sized room, you had an incapable amplifier or you were playing music loud enough to cause hearing loss.  The fact that you now often run into limiting at what you consider ordinary listening volume indicates either you have already damaged your hearing or will do so, or you are seated at a distance where you should be looking into PA systems.  (Not sure I understand the repeated references to “mixing volume” when you aren’t mixing. With regard to people who did mix albums, I saw a documentary on George Martin just a few days ago, and his difficulties with hearing loss later in life were quite sad.)

 

This is not something you should leave to math debates in an online forum.  There are a number of phone apps that will do just fine for the purpose of roughly determining the dB levels at which you’re listening. I personally use AudioTools on iPhone, but there are others.  If you are getting up near 85dB at your listening position fairly frequently, then you’ll want to become accustomed to listening at lower volume, and get your hearing checked.  If you are hitting limiting at much lower volume, then you will want to consider a cozier listening space or a different sort of system, perhaps something with higher wattage amplification and efficient horn speakers.

Thanks Jud, sincerely.

"With regard to people who did mix albums, I saw a documentary on George Martin just a few days ago, and his difficulties with hearing loss later in life were quite sad."

Well noted.

I although read through your link, very good infomation.

"Most NIHL is caused by the damage and eventual death of these hair cells. Unlike bird and amphibian hair cells, human hair cells don’t grow back. They are gone for good."

[dustblue]

Kii engineers replied to me, they perform the test exactly as the way I did and got the very same results, which is for Gojira's <drum solo> limiter kicks in at 81.5 volume on controller, while the pirates theme overload at 83.

 

They also responded with lots of useful information which could not be found publicly, I am waiting for their permission to publicly disclose it, if granted I would start another thread to say it.

 

Thanks for those who helped, though none of you could achieve a very simple correct result. I don't know where you did wrong and I am not sure why you tried so hard to protect Kii (however you actually failed to do it) and ignore some very simple truth(or being unable to find out).

 

[baconbrain]

1 hour ago, dustblue said:

Kii engineers replied to me, they perform the test exactly as the way I did and got the very same results, which is for Gojira's <drum solo> limiter kicks in at 81.5 volume on controller, while the pirates theme overload at 83.

 

They also responded with lots of useful information which could not be found publicly, I am waiting for their permission to publicly disclose it, if granted I would start another thread to say it.

 

Thanks for those who helped, though none of you could achieve a very simple correct result. I don't know where you did wrong and I am not sure why you tried so hard to protect Kii (however you actually failed to do it) and ignore some very simple truth(or being unable to find out).

 

If you are not trying to sound rude, you are doing a pretty poor job of it...

[phosphorein]

48 minutes ago, dustblue said:

Kii engineers replied to me, they perform the test exactly as the way I did and got the very same results, which is for Gojira's <drum solo> limiter kicks in at 81.5 volume on controller, while the pirates theme overload at 83.

 

They also responded with lots of useful information which could not be found publicly, I am waiting for their permission to publicly disclose it, if granted I would start another thread to say it.

 

Thanks for those who helped, though none of you could achieve a very simple correct result. I don't know where you did wrong and I am not sure why you tried so hard to protect Kii (however you actually failed to do it) and ignore some very simple truth(or being unable to find out).

 

 

My impression is that these tracks must be highly atypical. I've had the Kii system for over a year now and I have yet to observe limiting. I am running the Kii with direct input from Audirvana Plus (Mac Pro USB) into the Kii controller. My listening space is 7 x 4.3 x 3 m. and the Kii boundary is set to reproduce the optimum distribution suggested by Toole. And yes I have engaged the limiter indicator and even at volumes that are dangerous to hearing the Kid have performed without complaint. I am certain I could drive them into limiting by boosting the low end, but such a response curve would be unmusical to me. I think the design rationale for the Kii was to provide a neutral monitoring platform for the typical studio, not reproduction in large venues.

 

@dustblue I am interested in hearing the info you learned from Kii.

 

[dustblue]

3 minutes ago, phosphorein said:

 

My impression is that these tracks must be highly atypical. I've had the Kii system for over a year now and I have yet to observe limiting. I am running the Kii with direct input from Audirvana Plus (Mac Pro USB) into the Kii controller. My listening space is 7 x 4.3 x 3 m. and the Kii boundary is set to reproduce the optimum distribution suggested by Toole. And yes I have engaged the limiter indicator and even at volumes that are dangerous to hearing the Kid have performed without complaint. I am certain I could drive them into limiting by boosting the low end, but such a response curve would be unmusical to me. I think the design rationale for the Kii was to provide a neutral monitoring platform for the typical studio, not reproduction in large venues.

 

@dustblue I am interested in hearing the info you learned from Kii.

 

Those sound tracks are not atypical.

When mastering music there would be only a 20dB headroom above calibrated sound level (77dB single speaker pink noise calibration), any louder would cause signal clipping, so however sick a track is mastered, in a calibrated environment it would sound at most 100dB on the calibrated position(double speaker), it is not limitless. 

Here is the reference if you are interested:

https://www.digido.com/portfolio-item/level-practices-part-2/

[baconbrain]

10 minutes ago, dustblue said:

Those sound tracks are not atypical.

When mastering music there would be only a 20dB headroom above calibrated sound level (77dB single speaker pink noise calibration), any louder would cause signal clipping, so however sick a track is mastered, in a calibrated environment it would sound at most 100dB on the calibrated position(double speaker), it is not limitless. 

Here is the reference if you are interested:

https://www.digido.com/portfolio-item/level-practices-part-2/

Personally I find all of the “pink noise” you are generating to be of absolutely no value.

[firedog]

3 hours ago, dustblue said:

Those sound tracks are not atypical.

When mastering music there would be only a 20dB headroom above calibrated sound level (77dB single speaker pink noise calibration), any louder would cause signal clipping, so however sick a track is mastered, in a calibrated environment it would sound at most 100dB on the calibrated position(double speaker), it is not limitless. 

Here is the reference if you are interested:

https://www.digido.com/portfolio-item/level-practices-part-2/

Your tracks are clearly untypical of most music and production except for very modern stuff in that style. Otherwise there would be no explanation of why none of the rest of us have ever encountered this issue, other than the fact that none of us are trying to play at ear injuring levels in large rooms. Most of us have never even seen the limiter come on at all. 

I’d be interested in hearing exactly what Kii said. I doubt they agree with your assessment that there is something wrong with the Kiis performance or that they aren’t performing to spec. 

[dustblue]

4 hours ago, firedog said:

Your tracks are clearly untypical of most music and production except for very modern stuff in that style. Otherwise there would be no explanation of why none of the rest of us have ever encountered this issue, other than the fact that none of us are trying to play at ear injuring levels in large rooms. Most of us have never even seen the limiter come on at all. 

I’d be interested in hearing exactly what Kii said. I doubt they agree with your assessment that there is something wrong with the Kiis performance or that they aren’t performing to spec. 

It’s the fact that matters, not subjuective opinions. The fact is Kii Three does overload at 80 around levels. None of you could confirm this is why I turned to Kii engineers for help.And they proved I am right about this fact.

 

The best info I hear is that they confirmed  BXT could increase 10dB headroom which would make it only overload around/above 90 volume, according to my test that would most likely be enough for my need to put them in the big room.

(Genelec1238 is 10dB louder than 8351, just so you have the impression)

 

For their original reply I have to wait for their permission to disclose.

[baconbrain]

4 hours ago, dustblue said:

It’s the fact that matters, not subjuective opinions. The fact is Kii Three does overload at 80 around levels. None of you could confirm this is why I turned to Kii engineers for help.And they proved I am right about this fact.

 

The best info I hear is that they confirmed  BXT could increase 10dB headroom which would make it only overload around/above 90 volume, according to my test that would most likely be enough for my need to put them in the big room.

(Genelec1238 is 10dB louder than 8351, just so you have the impression)

 

For their original reply I have to wait for their permission to disclose.

It’s a free world, so go buy a different set of speakers to suit your purpose (whatever that might be).

 

Also recommend you stop polluting this thread with a topic to which you evidently have a conclusion (pat yourself on the back) and the majority here cannot (or has a need to) reproduce.

[dustblue]

I am actually not interested in this forum anymore. Many members here don't count on facts and protect their little world very aggressively.

 

I am not even able to tell is it true or not that when you say you never see the limiter kick in even above 95,  which is simply impossible. The credibility is just low on some of you guys.

 

It's ok for you to reject an open mind and live in your little cocoon, review back in this thread I can't find a single useful information except from @Jud, and I thank him for the ear health link. Turns out when listening at calibrated slow c-weighted 77dB single speaker level, no sound track would exceed 94dB stereo sound pressure level whatsoever(with an averaged 80-85dB which won't hurt your ears even long term).

 

I would stop wasting my time here and wish you a happy life.

 

[Mazza]

1 hour ago, dustblue said:

I am actually not interested in this forum anymore. Many members here don't count on facts and protect their little world very aggressively.

 

I am not even able to tell is it true or not that when you say you never see the limiter kick in even above 95,  which is simply impossible. The credibility is just low on some of you guys.

 

I would stop wasting my time here and wish you a happy life.

 

Thing is @dustblue you appear to have a very closed mind and just because the facts that are reported to you by other contributors or their opinions don’t match yours, you always seem to start to adopt an aggressive stance which does nothing but wind people up when all they are trying to do is to try to help you with your questions. 

 

I for one responded to your initial question about what level the limiter kicks in and that is a fact on my system and my speakers. And your response above? .... “simply impossible”. It’s not impossible, it’s what I found and I guess the other contributors found the same. Why do otherwise?

 

These forums work by cooperation and mutual respect, it’s a shame you feel the need to throw a tantrum and metaphorically stomp off.

 

Good luck. 

 

[atletico]

 

After a week with to much focus on levels and limiter flashing  in this tread,  her is just a little recommendation for music I'm now enjoying on my Kii Three's. The Norwegian harpist Sidsel Walstad new exiting album playing electric and acoustic harp together with two drummers sounds real good in my living room. Give it a try and have a nice weekend!

 https://listen.tidal.com/album/95485055

[firedog]

3 hours ago, dustblue said:

I am actually not interested in this forum anymore. Many members here don't count on facts and protect their little world very aggressively.

 

I am not even able to tell is it true or not that when you say you never see the limiter kick in even above 95,  which is simply impossible. The credibility is just low on some of you guys.

 

 

 You really need to stop  being such a know it all. No one here is protecting their little world. Why would we lie to you? You used the Kiis for one day and came to all sorts of conclusions. You have a community of users, all of whom say their experience doesn't match yours at all. Your response is to basically say we must all be lying?

Do you not see how that makes you sound? 

I'm not denying your personal findings. I am denying that it happens to me. Even at 95. Period. I'm also denying your point (which you apparently dropped) that the Kiis published specs are wrong. 
Jud wasn't the only one to suggest to you to temper the volume levels for ear health. I also suggest you do a bit more reading on the subject. You will damage your hearing with extended listening at the levels you are talking about. 

[dustblue]

5 minutes ago, firedog said:

 You really need to stop  being such a know it all. No one here is protecting their little world. Why would we lie to you? You used the Kiis for one day and came to all sorts of conclusions. You have a community of users, all of whom say their experience doesn't match yours at all. Your response is to basically say we must all be lying?

Do you not see how that makes you sound? 

I'm not denying your personal findings. I am denying that it happens to me. Even at 95. Period. I'm also denying your point (which you apparently dropped) that the Kiis published specs are wrong. 
Jud wasn't the only one to suggest to you to temper the volume levels for ear health. I also suggest you do a bit more reading on the subject. You will damage your hearing with extended listening at the levels you are talking about. 

You respect  mitchco right? Ask him when he review the speakers what is the calibrated SPL level.(Ok I tell you it's 83dB single speaker/86dB stereo and that is cinema reference level) I never listen/demo speakers higher than that. When I put my test steps here I also did not instruct any higher than 85dB sound pressure level. 

 

For kii threes if volume higher than 95 with direct input(no pre-amp attenuation) IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE LIMITER NEVER KICK IN with any well mixed, frequency balanced music materials.

 

KiiAudio engineers tested that at 81.5 volume the limiter start to kick in with bass heavy stuff, which means if you want to play music at 95 without overload，the music could only have less than 20dB-(95dB-81.5dB)=6.5dB headroom，for some music maybe but for the majority it's simply not true.(there is a 20dB headroom above reference level in music production).

 

So yeal I don't know I just cant trust you when you say 95 without overload without preamp attenuation. It's plain physics.

 

When I say you protect your little world is because you don't want to know your beloved product's limitation, any bad words would trigger to react, and you don't want to fact-check(or failed to do so, or lack the ability to do so, whatever.)

 

About Kii specification being misleading, I don't mention it again is because Kii engineers are very nice and give me very satisfied explanations, I don't want to do any harm to them.

 

For those who recon me as rude, go back and have a look at what those trolls said. When I found a forum with this kind of bad atmosphere I simply quit. this is my last post here.It would be really stupid  to waste time here anymore.

 

 

[firedog]

1 hour ago, dustblue said:

You respect  mitchco right? Ask him when he review the speakers what is the calibrated SPL level.(Ok I tell you it's 83dB single speaker/86dB stereo and that is cinema reference level) I never listen/demo speakers higher than that. When I put my test steps here I also did not instruct any higher than 85dB sound pressure level. 

 

For kii threes if volume higher than 95 with direct input(no pre-amp attenuation) IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE LIMITER NEVER KICK IN with any well mixed, frequency balanced music materials.

 

KiiAudio engineers tested that at 81.5 volume the limiter start to kick in with bass heavy stuff, which means if you want to play music at 95 without overload，the music could only have less than 20dB-(95dB-81.5dB)=6.5dB headroom，for some music maybe but for the majority it's simply not true.(there is a 20dB headroom above reference level in music production).

 

So yeal I don't know I just cant trust you when you say 95 without overload without preamp attenuation. It's plain physics.

 

When I say you protect your little world is because you don't want to know your beloved product's limitation, any bad words would trigger to react, and you don't want to fact-check(or failed to do so, or lack the ability to do so, whatever.)

 

About Kii specification being misleading, I don't mention it again is because Kii engineers are very nice and give me very satisfied explanations, I don't want to do any harm to them.

 

For those who recon me as rude, go back and have a look at what those trolls said. When I found a forum with this kind of bad atmosphere I simply quit. this is my last post here.It would be really stupid  to waste time here anymore.

 

 

Limiter never kicks in, on well known recordings of many types: classical, jazz, rock, etc. No preamp or software attenuation. Even at levels in the 90’s, even 95 and above on some recordings.  How about orchestral recordings of symphonies on BIS or DG? How about the remix of Sgt. Pepper? How about the recent “found” recording of John Coltrane? Are those all faulty recordings? Do you know something that all the rest of us and the engineers at those labels don’t know?

 

But I get it, I’m lying because you think I have a product I want to “protect”. 

I’ll suggest another possibility that is a much more reasonable explanation: you understand a lot less than you think you do. 
Good luck with your hearing. You’ll need it. 

[phosphorein]

@dustblue I for one do not have an agenda to protect Kii’s reputation. Many of us here have technical backgrounds and some of us have worked in the broadcast industry (me in my mispent youth, for example). I do think we have a good grasp of the physics involved here. For the most part the participants in this forum are good people and are happy to help out. I hope you find a forum that will be more to your preference.

[Bart van der Laan]

Gents,

 

Hold your horses, both camps are correct! 

 

You are very likely running different firmware versions...the only difference in these versions is a signal gain of 12dB. 

Looking at your stated numbers relating to limiter activity and boundary settings this matches exactly!

 

The gain increase request came from some customers who were using their Kii’s on the analog input with a relatively low output signal source (+4 dBu for example) whilst the hardware inside the Kii accommodates for 18dBu. This hardware design choice was based on requirements in the pro sector but in hindsight is not the best match overall.

These customers did not get enough SPL with their analog chain on full throttle.

The same is true on the digital inputs if you mix or master with small signal content on one of your channel strips.

 

At some point in time in the beginning of this year we decided to put this high gain firmware version on by default. It matches the majority of source devices out there better and is not harmful in any way.

There is a slight increase in hiss on the tweeter channel if you are on analog.

We decided not to go public with it since it is not a bug but a feature to be released in future along with some other updates.

 

There is no control dial for this on the speaker so it is not settable especially without a Kii Control present, and so for now it is just a matter of uploading the firmware version you desire if the speakers are already in the field.

We are planning to incorporate this in the Kii Control as a software control in a more extended way with source volume offset per channel but it is not realized yet and I cannot give you a definitive timeline on it.

 

These conversations are the main reason for me to refrain taking part of forum activities in general. I was made aware of the temperature of this thread and decided to step in. I do not plan to make a routine out of it since it distracts me from doing the things that make your music come alive

 

I sincerely hope this settles your debate and you can all sit back and follow Atletico’s example of share and enjoy! At whatever SPL floats your boat, although I do share the hope that everyone takes care about their hearing health.

 

If you have any questions, feel free to contact us directly, not through a forum please!

Like dustblue’s inquiry we always try to make an effort to answer as quickly and elaborate as possible. 

 

@dustblue, if you are still watching this feel free to share our message here we sent to you.

 

Thanks everyone for embracing our products!

 

Cheers,

Bart

[The Computer Audiophile]

44 minutes ago, Bart van der Laan said:

If you have any questions, feel free to contact us directly, not through a forum please!

If I may, please allow me to help on this. Forums are a great opportunity for manufacturers to answer a single question  and educate the masses. The old school way of answering the same question one to one via email is inefficient. Plus, now the answers are out here forever. 

 

Forums are also a great way for manufacturers to interact with customers and potential customers. If business is so good that this isn’t needed, then please ignore my post.