Kii Three - my impressions and pro reviews

[Rubysea]

New firmware update is just out. From the website:

This download of the update tool contains the most current firmware versions:
Kii Control: 2.4
K3 PIC: 3.9
K3 DSP: 4.9
BXT: 0.6

 

Fixes (from inofficial changelog):

- Fixed bug in analogue input level detection
- Bluetooth device now presents itself as a hifi device instead of a headset
- Slave settings will be copied in KC menu from master for linked settings like boundary

 

[Rubysea]

Which wise source told you so?

Since 5-FEB there doesn't seem to be any newer FW available as currently posted at Kii's download location (version 1.4 of the update-tool)

https://kiiaudio.helpdocsonline.com/update-tool

 

[Rubysea]

Hi Cazzesman, yes, this is the most recent version. Also see this post (and following) on the previous page here regarding fixes:

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/34992-kii-three-my-impressions-and-pro-reviews/page/56/?tab=comments#comment-1026223

Best, rubysea

[Rubysea]

Mazza, you are correct. I also mentioned this once to Kii to have both in sync for the naming to avoid potential confusion.

The tool (installer) itself I think doesn't change that much (apart maybe from some under the hood things), so that a renaming according to the leading part of the FW (which is for KC) would help a lot.

(And I suppose there would never be an individual release of the tool without any changes for the FW components it includes that really would justify an individual versioning)

[Rubysea]

... and besides the Kii then re-samples every signal to an internal sampling rate of 93.75 kHz....(same as the Grimm LS1 I think....)

(https://kiiaudio.com/media/GENERAL/docs/reviews/kii3hfn818lowrez.pdf)

 

[Rubysea]

Regarding this rather unusual internal sampling rate of 93.75 kHz I found some small additional info here:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/why-93-75-khz-sampling-rate.4309/

[Rubysea]

Sure, this can be fun and it would be interesting to know, if it actually does make a difference.
I myself though am currently happy with the results the Kii delivers with its own SRC processes but may be tempted if experiences here will sound promising

Below some statements I found from Bruno Putzeys on SRC and his implementation in the Kii Three:

"In terms of sample-rate conversion, it's worth mentioning that we designed our own software-based SRC because we wanted full control over jitter attenuation and impulse response. I found that filters with a relatively broad transition band (i.e. short impulse response) and extremely low in-band ripple are the most transparent. You've probably noticed that even RedBook comes rather close to high res. This is the underlying reason. Using super-high sample rates is a poor substitute for correct filter design. All data types with the Three end up converted to the same internal format but each input rate has filters designed specifically for it. The only 'disadvantage' of this is that you can't varispeed the digital signal but I guess it's not really something folks do anyway. Our internal DSP processing is 40-bit floating point. This means that no resolution is lost by digital attenuation. The connection to the DAC is fixed point but the output is fully dithered. People still don't believe it but dithering truly turns quantisation errors into pure noise that's indistinguishable from ordinary analogue noise. An item we're quite proud of is our IIR filter structure. It's completely different from the normal 'direct form' implementation that, AFAIK, literally everyone else uses.
..."
http://6moons.com/audioreviews2/kii/5.html

[Rubysea]

Hi input username here.
It's a bit difficult to diagnose remotely, but I guess you have read the REW manual regarding set-up (although the screenshots may differ) and your REW preferences are set showing the following setings:
Output Device: Kii Control, Output: SPEAKER and Input Device: Umik-1 Gain: 18db, Input: MICROPHONE (see example screenshot taken from one of my measurements).
At least that were my preferences settings when I did my set-up and measurements. So I guess it should look similar for you.
I started exactly the same way as you from scratch with a  Umik-1 and REW but everything worked out just fine. I was running it on a MAC though.
Regarding sound only coming from one speaker: did you verify the settings for the measurements: in REW you can make choices for L, R, L+R at several locations. So maybe one setting is not set to L+R somewhere.

I don't have access to the Kiis and the Umik at the moment, otherwise I could try to be a bit more specific...

[Rubysea]

The bit transparency check for the Kii Three requires a special wav test file (mono 44.1khz 24bit) from Kii Audio which needs to be played. Only then it will say YES if everything is OK.

If I remember correctly, the file needs to be played unaltered, which means no attenuation by a SW player, otherwise the result will be NO. It's an internal test for the Kii Three audio-chain to be fully bit transparent and not corrupted.

[Rubysea]

It's been some time now, but a new firmware update for the Kii Control I suppose should become available soon in the official firmware update section. It only seems to update Kii Control from v2.4 to v2.5 (for BXT I can't say as I don't own it)

The changes will include:

- Fixed bug in standby sleep/wake-up behaviour
- Fixed bug in multi filter setup
- Added filter bypass option for easy A/B comparison, including a preset option

So stay tuned...

[Rubysea]

Yes, congratulations @a_kraut. How long did you have to wait for yours. I heard between ordering and delivery there could be a few month now? Regarding the rubber damping on the stands top plate: To me it looks pretty much like the Tesa window isoaltion band with the E-profile. You probably know what I am talking about. So for a cheap start you could try to use that. It's taped at the outside border of all four sides. I've also changed cables but only for (perceived) better shielding. Soundwise I didn't hear (and expect) any difference.

Also, when you finally have them, you soon might explore the topic of room correction. There is plenty of info in this forum with major input from mitchco. With the Kiis and the Control (and its various EQ filter settings you can use) and an additional mic (like UMIK-1) you could start with fairly basic room correction in the bass region which might come in very handy depending on your room. At least it did for me.

[Rubysea]

I don't use any specific high grade cables. The power cable is Goldkabel powercord that provides some basic shielding and the network cable is a no-name upgrade to Cat7 from the provided Cat5 that came with mine 4 years ago.

[Rubysea]

Well, I suppose your Cambridge stereamer's basic design is that of many streamers that I assume most of the Kii users here use.
A steamer usually has a DAC and analogue section. What you are refering to is a pure network transport, that can only output/forward the audio digitally. I would assume that the majority of the users here in this (Kii-) forum don't use a transport but a "normal" Streamer (but I might be wrong).
Mine is basically the same construction and I use it the way you described: I use the digital coax out and don't care about the streamer's dac and analogue section.
The Kii's will resample the incoming signal anyway to a sample rate of 93.75 khz independent of the sample rate fed to it.
Besides you have the freedom of choice to evaluate any other streamer/transport and compare it to your cambridge and decide for yourself if another steramer/transport sounds better with the Kiis than your current one...

[Rubysea]

...Another option could be just to wait a little while, if you could do so and are not in an utmost hurry...

I'm fairly confident that probably by the end of the year you might be able to also think about putting a "Kii streamer" on your evaluation list ;-)

[Rubysea]

Regarding Turntable connection to the Kii: I previously had the turntable pre-amp directly connected to each Kii (XLR input set to analog). This would require only one AD conversion. However, you might need some pretty long cables that might also reqire mixed plugs (XLR, cinch) depending on your pre-amp out. This was the case for me. 4m cables with different plugs. But this worked well.
Now the pre-amp is connected to a minidsp SHD who does the AD conversion (and room correction) and the signal is digitally fed to the Kii Control. I haven't noticed much of a difference to write about, but the turntable isn't my main music source anyway. Besides, the minidsp and the Kii to my knowledge use the same brand of AD (and DA) converters (AKM Asahi Kasei Microdevices)

 

The rumour for a Kii streamer has been around for some time, but apparently by the end of this year we should be wiser this time. It very likely also will not be based on a propietary SW streaming solution :-)

But time will tell...Covid and a relocation of Kii to Germany mid year (so I have heard) might counteract that schedule...

[Rubysea]

It seems like your Cambridge Audio doesn't have any inputs, so it wont't be possible to connect the turntable pre-amp to it. So it only posesses an DAC but not ADC. So you need a separate device or use the ADC capabilities of the Kii.

 

The Kii Streamer I suppose will be rather "functional". So any kind of GUI activities most likely will be available on handheld or desktop devices. I doubt that it will have any fancy display like the ones you mentioned above. But it remains to be seen....

[Rubysea]

No, I don't know for sure. Maybe that might only be correct for the AD conversion. The DA conversion might be different. One needs to ask that to Kii directly to be sure (unless that info is available elsewhere)

Knowing per speacker they use on DAC per driver my assumption was they use the same supplier as for the ADC. Also assuming that a DAC is always HW-based.

[Rubysea]

A few weeks back I had asked when the next FW version would be released and I was then told it would still take some weeks. Aparently some code re-write is undergone and that's why it takes some more time. So if the info still holds, it could be around March maybe??

...we'll just have to wait...

[Rubysea]

Well, if you have been in direct contact with Kii you might contact them again and ask what the procedure (for your country/ region) is like in case your speakers need to be serviced. Will that be handeled by the dealer or with Kii directly (might be country/region dependent).

When I had an issue with mine (Europe/Germany) I was dealing with Kii directly which was very comfortable and fast and not at all with my dealer.

If you cancel your order now you might have to wait a long time again before you can get a new pair depending on how Kii is still dealing with Covid, current order backlog, company re-loaction to Germany in a few months, etc.

You might also check on this with Kii what that would mean for you and a your (new) order if you change your current dealer

[Rubysea]

New Kii Control Firmare 2.5 just seems to have been released. As per here:

https://kiiaudio.helpdocsonline.com/kiicontrolv2

These are the new features:

• New simple menu structure
• Added BXT Menu
• Advanced Filters in Pro Menu
• Improved Bluetooth audio connectivity
• Clipping indicator for Analog Input

All other firmeware components do not seem to have been changed

[Rubysea]

An app for storing and changing the Control settings could probably be an enhanced version of the update tool. But you still would need the Kii Control for this, because the Kii / Kii Control does not offer any wireless connection and besides the Kii control you cannot directly connect to a Kii speaker with a computer (LAN).
I assume the upcoming streamer will feature Kii settings management, too. But it remains to be seen whether the settings can also be changed via a remote UI conection then or if this only will hold true for the streamer audio UI (which most likely will not be a proprietary Kii implementation)

[Rubysea]

When I experiment with speakers and toe in I usually start with Q-Sound recorded albums because of the phase effects used in mastering.
Example here is always Roger Waters - Amused to death (or some songs on Sting's Soul Cages work very well, too).

I vary with toe in until the sound effects are coming from their correct location at the listening position.
From there I experiment further using other recordings. I usually find this an easy (and mostly reliable) way to start.

[Rubysea]

My approach in this respect is the similar to Firedog's. I use a combination of individual boundary settings per Kii ("low shelf filter") and a PEQ filter to eliminate a particular strong bass room mode and another bass peak for one speaker. On top of that I apply Dirac DRC through a minidsp shd.

I probably could have done everything in Dirac/minidsp, but as hardware based DRC implementations like minidsp usually can't apply that many filter taps to do the room correction I used all resources I had an hence split up the correction work (eg. see this article & comments section by mitchco:)

 

[Rubysea]

I don't think so. Usually all 2 lights should be constantly on. Does it behave/ play normal? Did you try to reset the speaker (or both)?

 

Kii- Backside Panel: P/R button - (RESET)
Press and hold the button for 5 seconds, this resets the speaker. (The front LEDs will indicate this by blinking violet and yellow)

 

[Rubysea]

Curious to know how they will be doing this. Did they get any formal service training by Kii how to do so?