Kii Three - my impressions and pro reviews

[Blade1001]

6 minutes ago, TheStupidOne said:

If you don't have the control I'd just use whatever makes the least amount of cable mess. In most cases dual AES, but if cables need to be bought, one AES is cheaper than two. 

 

 

True - I wasn't aware of the possibility of the speakers losing sync over the Kii Connect (ethernet) cable, so that kind of makes the decision - thanks for pointing that possibility out. 

 

I have plenty of decent AES cable, so I just need to get some Neutrik plugs and make up a pair of cables in preparation.

[Blade1001]

Sorry, another inane usage questions from me:

 

I assume some parts of the external aluminium panelling effectively acts as a heat sink for some of the internal electronics. With this in mind, does the aluminium base of the speakers get warm during use?

 

For those folks using the stock stands, how do the speakers mate with the stands, are there some feet or foam separating the metal top of the stand from the metal base of the speaker?

[Blade1001]

Thanks guys. The reason for the question is I’m making my own stands (I run a metal fabrication company so it’s easy to arrange) and I was thinking of having the top plate completely covered with neoprene foam where it touches the underside of the speaker - so in effect almost the entire metal underside of the speaker would be covered. 

 

However looking at the photo of the stock frame, the rubber seal is in strips, presumably to leave a small air gap, so I’d better do the same.

 

I may use some sorbothane strips as they should tack to the base of the speakers to help grip them, and also provide a little damping.

[Blade1001]

1 hour ago, George Hincapie said:

 

I had them on home demo. Didn't like them and they went back, so they aren't the be all and end all.

 

Pray tell - what did you go for instead?

[Blade1001]

1 hour ago, Bernstein said:

What I experienced was, that it also highly depends on the recording: with Summertime (Fitzgerald & Armstrong) you have a natural height of the voices, also with some violin recordings. Other recordings puts the singer straight in the

middle between the tweeters like they are sitting. Is it the recording? Is it the placement? 
 

Best practices are welcome! 

 

To be honest I think you’ve answered your own question at the start of that paragraph. If the perception of height changes with the recording, it would suggest your system is accurately portraying the recording height as it was intended.

 

If you’re looking to alter the average perceived height in general, then physically raising the speakers would seem the answer.

[Blade1001]

5 minutes ago, TheStupidOne said:

You shouldn't go for diffusors directly behind your head in this case. Diffusors need some distance to properly create a diffuse sound field, typically above 1-2 meters at least. I have the same kind of placement and have chosen RPG Absorbors. I'd recommend the Broadsorbors 4 inch with a photo print because it's the best on the market.

 

Here's my absorbors on the concrete wall;

 

 

+1 to this - spot on post! Has to be absorbers at that range, and my preference is for RPG also.

[Blade1001]

15 minutes ago, Bernstein said:

You are totally right! At least 1m distance. I have 70cm with the additional pillow. 
I have a dealer here for professional studios. I will visit him and discuss the specifics...If I could sit at least 1m away the wall  

PS: Placement of your elements would cause trouble in my household  Printed ones are nice 👍🏿 but I already heavily invested in the shown canvas from maple wood and fine print  

Something around the head area (beneath the canvas) is what I am looking for. 

 

You would ideally need to be more than 1m away from a diffuser for it to worktop properly. You need to be a minimum of one full wavelength from the lowest frequency you want to diffuse. So for 250Hz for example, you would need to be a minimum of 1370mm away, for 125Hz, you'd want to be 2740mm away.  Those are also minimum requirements, so in ideal terms you'd want to add a percentage onto that.

 

An absorber will remove the majority of the reflection completely. A simple 3-4" absorber running along the length of your sofa, and up to the underside of your existing canvases will do it (I assume that would place the top of it above head height?). You can pick an AT fabric that matches either your sofa fabric, or your wall colour, if you want it to blend in as much as possible. They can probably also add a 45 degree chamfer to all sides of the absorber so its a little less obvious also.

[Blade1001]

9 minutes ago, Bernstein said:

I suggested to put some nice absorber (wooden or with fabric) surrounding our canvas to my wife (or at least on ear level). She smiled and threaded me to paint my white KII with black Edding. That’s blackmailing! 😐😐😐

 

I will go to the store this week and look for (very) nice alternatives or temporary ones, which I will store underneath the couch...🤪

PS: There is some black humor in it though 😂😂😂 

 

If you want to try getting permission for something more wife friendly, companies like Artnovion (https://www.artnovion.com/) have some very nice looking designer panels.

 

 

 

 

[Blade1001]

2 minutes ago, Bernstein said:

My dealer here has them in portfolio...but I think it will be something temporary which I attach and remove after listening...

 

In that case I guess you could have a panel that you can store behind your sofa, and pull it up and prop it on the solid rear back of your sofa behind the cushions when needed.

 

You could DIY it with a 3-4" rock wool or rigid fibre glass panel, wrapped in polyester webbing (to keep fibres from escaping) and wrapped in an AT fabric of choice.

[Blade1001]

12 minutes ago, input username here said:

 

FYI.  I contacted Kii and got this response about the wall mounts, for anyone who is interested.  (Interestingly, as far as I know, I own the very first consumer pair of Kii THREEs imported into the U.S., but I checked and I have only the 4-screw pattern... I guess the very, very early one's were only destined for Europe (or maybe U.S. dealer display.))

 

 

 

When they say 6 screws, do they mean the four larger ones, and the 2 small ones? And this is now an older style?:

 

And are they saying the newer pattern is just four, like this, opposite the centre line of each driver?:

 

 

But from the images of the brackets, they appear to use the main four bolt holes from the 6 bolt layout:

 

 

[Blade1001]

At the end of the day if the part of the bracket that mates with the speaker is the same as the above images, it shouldn't be overly difficult to drill additional holes to suit any of the bolt layouts.

[Blade1001]

38 minutes ago, Bernstein said:

It happens only in warm up/cool down I think And not everytime (depends I suppose on the volume you drive them and how fast they heat up). And it is thermal (metal expanding). Sound is clear as hell  

 

 

Does the sound come from the speakers drivers themselves, or from the cabinet?

[Blade1001]

8 minutes ago, Bernstein said:

Cabinet. Experienced it also from near. Sometimes very low in noise, sometimes louder. „Metal pling“. Only happens once on each loudspeaker I think. 
 

Doesn't it happen with yours? I hear it, when listening at night with low volume. When playing normal volumes or louder, it doesn't matter

 

Mine aren’t set up yet - currently stripped for painting. 

 

There is a lot of aluminium in these speakers. Not only the exterior panels you can see, but each amp and DSP board sits on a thick aluminium plate which is bolted to the case (four in total). Aluminium expands and contracts a lot with changes in temperature, so I think maybe a thermal expansion click or two is to be ‘anticipated’ (though obviously not desired). Do you keep your speakers switched on (in standby) all the time?

 

If the noise was coming from the drivers then I’d be more worried I think, as that would be more likely to suggest an electronic fault. Though even then, if you’ve ever heard a tube amp warming up, it sets a high bar for odd noises!

[Blade1001]

1 minute ago, Yellowspider said:

Sure, i have 🙂
It´s an acrylic bookholder bought at Amazon. Fits perfectly.
Kii Control Stand

 

 

That stand is genius! And that colour looks lovely, mine should be similar once they are finish - all being well!

[Blade1001]

8 minutes ago, Bernstein said:

Stand is cool! But I worry my rather heavy SPDif Cable will pull a lot on the KC. 

 

A little bit of strategically applied velco or blu-tack?

[Blade1001]

11 minutes ago, Yellowspider said:

What are the experiences with Power Conditioners / Filters? I´m using a PS Audio P10. But if you listen very loud, it can´t manage the Kiis load anymore and switchs off.

 

Thats concerning - I was hoping to run mine through a P10. 

 

Is the switch off repeatable? Have you been able to monitor the load reading on the P10 when playing that loud - if so what percentage does it hit? (I take it you have them connected to the high current outlets?)

[Blade1001]

Does anyone have power consumption specs for the Kii Three's? All I can find in the specs and manual is consumption on standby which is 0.5W, but how about at peak output?

[Blade1001]

18 hours ago, fpalm69 said:

I used a Kill-a-Watt device to measure all my components including the Kii Three.  Each measured about 2 amps at peak loads and 1 amp during normal listening levels/material.  Half amp at idle, no music playing.  I have USA 120 vac 60 hz incoming power.

 

14 hours ago, phosphorein said:

Similar here; usually about 0.7 amps at normal listening (70-75 dBA).

 

Thanks guys.

 

I actually got some information from Kii on this.

 

On regular playback at normal listening levels the Kii's draw 40-60 watts per speaker from the wall. However at their peak output - that's transient peaks on highest volume/gain settings - they max out at 1200 watts per speaker from the wall.

 

 

 

 

[Blade1001]

17 minutes ago, Bernstein said:

Guys: where did you purchase your RPG Broadsorbers? Directly from UK?
 

 

 

Yes, I'm in the UK, so I've always dealt with Matt at RPG Europe:

 

http://www.rpgeurope.com/contact/site-contacts/

 

They can sometimes take longer than ideal to respond to e-mails etc, but audiophiles buying a couple of panels are obviously not the life blood of their business, so the large commercial projects probably take precedence.

 

[Blade1001]

2 minutes ago, Yellowspider said:

My P10 shows about approx. 85 W for both speakers running mid volume (Kii control shows 65 as volume level)

Mostly I listen to digital Music between 62 and 70 volume level Kii Control. What level do the other listeners prefer mainly?

 

Your measurement would seem about right then for the figures Kii gave me. Obviously this is all dependent on overall listening level at the seating position, and and distance from the speakers.

 

My Kii Three's aren't ready quiet yet, but normally I listen at around 75dB (pink noise) at a listening distance of around 3 metres.

[Blade1001]

44 minutes ago, KunterK said:

What is the experience with AES digital cables who use that setup?

 

I have a dCS Network Bridge connected via AES, in my case quite favorably with a 12 ft Studio grade Mogami Gold AES Digital/Analog XLR Microphone Cable I bought from Amazon. At 76 USD, very good performance for the money. Any other recommendations? I would need a long length, minimum 2 meters or more, since the master speaker and the equipment rack stand apart.

 

Cheers

Mogami make good cables, you’re unlikely to get any real performance difference with a different brand. Don’t fall into the trap of believing any audiophile alternative will offer anything better.

 

One thing to note though is AES cables are supposed to be 110ohm whereas analogue cables are usually 75ohm.

 

You could try getting a dedicated 110ohm cable, though again, given the distances involved there may not be any audible difference.

[Blade1001]

10 hours ago, fpalm69 said:

Is this wattage information from Kii for 120 VAC or something else?

That’s presumably from 240 VAC.

[Blade1001]

15 minutes ago, firedog said:

Just wondering because someone offered me a very good deal on a JL Fathom F113: How could you integrate a powered sub with the Kii Threes? Without buying something like a Trinnov or a Lyngdorf?  

Would you have to run the The Threes to an analog preamp and then connect the sub to the same pre?   I assume software could be used for time alignment of the pair of Kiis and the sub....

 

Something like one of the MiniDSP units can be used as a cross over to allow you to integrate a sub (or subs) if you're on a budget. They're very flexible devices and will allow you to time align the speakers to the sub (or subs) using delay settings, and also apply some basic level adjustment and PEQ's.

 

Alternatively I frequently see Trinnov ST2's come up on Hifi Shark for less than a couple of grand, if you're feeling a bit more spendy and want SOTA room correction.

[Blade1001]

1 hour ago, Rubysea said:

Hello community!

@Cazzesman : "A simple way" to better and cheper adapt the Kiis to your room is using the Kiis themselves 🙂 With the current firmware (v1.0.7) you have control over a lot of recently introduced new filters (w. 1.0.5): Low Pass, High Pass, Low Shelf, High Shelf, Notch, Parametric EQ with a constant Q, Parametric EQ with a proportional Q in the range of +3db to -24db (and that per channel/ Kii Master - Kii Slave)

I've tried that myself and with a UMIK1 + the Kii Control directly linked into REW I have done a lot of measurements and immediate corrections and thus could completely tame a terrible room mode around 40Hz.

I guess you should get in contact with Kii (Tom Jansen) to get access to the updated FW (and change log). An Update-tool is available for Win and Mac in case you don't alreadyhave access to it. The FW also updates the DSP and Kii-Control (where on the Apple remote you now can also switch between presets instead of only sources previously 🙂)

BR Rubysea

 Wait! What? When did this happen? That's a major improvement of the interface if they've added per channel PEQ functionality? How many filters can be added per channel? I'm amazed they've not made a bigger song and dance about that, as it was the one thing the 8c's had that the Kii Three's didn't!

[Blade1001]

Now all they need to do is make all this functionality accessible by connecting a laptop directly to the Kii Three's without the need for the Kii Control!