baconbrain Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Really unfortunate that I will not be able to attend the High End in Munich this year (traveling) especially since it is only 2 hour drive from my place. Would love to hear what these monsters should like. On the other hand, it is probably better for my bank account, and living space, that I don’t listen to them .... Link to comment
baconbrain Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 I am wondering if you can only utilize them as a pair, or if one could purchase just one and place it somewhere else in the room ... Link to comment
baconbrain Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 18 hours ago, Kelly said: I am curious what these will offer. The Threes already go down to subsonic frequency with little roll-off. I am guessing these would allow you to adequately compress larger rooms, go louder overall, and probably add some sort more tangible "jump" that seems to come from systems with forward firing woofers. The only other thing I wonder is if the additional bass drivers and their varied vertical heights gives the system more degrees of freedom with which to control the bass radiation. The Three by itself only directs the bass radiation in the horizontal plane, they had talked about a later system having more drivers to control radiation in the vertical plane to limit floor /ceiling reflections. The power spec is a bit concerning, I wonder if you could start popping circuit breakers pretty easily at least in the US. I wrote Kii asking about power draw on the Three prior to getting an online UPS. They said a single Three speaker had been measured at drawing 1400W at a peak, so at least double that for a pair. You might theoretically need a special appliance line to run these things with the BXTs. Then again, you might blow roof of your house at 25% volume... I am still waiting for them to activate Bluetooth. And they still haven't ever gotten my Control IR working. Grumble, grumble... Ditto the concerns regarding power requirements. I am already borderline with my 2O Amp fuse for the equipment I have in place .... Link to comment
baconbrain Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 hours ago, sapporo said: Cabling is potentially the most divisive topic in amateur audio. Not so among pros and engineers. It is hard to suspect the Kii crew of sabotaging their own sound at the exhibition. The Cat 5 cable is characterized in a standard descrbing its performance up to 100Mhz. It relies on balanced differential signalling. As long as the standard is observed there is no reason to go for expensive versions. Same with audio cables- their performance is dependent on well known and described physical characteristics. And then the power cables...Let’s just think for a moment about all that wiring in the building, the power lines to the trafo station... The last stretch from the wall socket to the device would somehow influence things critically? Science and standards are either true or false, individual perception of the senses is somewhere in between. tomjtx 1 Link to comment
baconbrain Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 9 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said: I'm not really sure that anyone other than the recording engineer and others present at the recording know what its 'supposed' to sound like. +1 and even then, it is their personal perception of what it “should” sound like, which is no guarantee that I, or anyone else, would prefer it. For me, music is an art and not a science. Some like Picasso, and some don’t ... Link to comment
baconbrain Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said: I agree but nonetheless, I guess some/many/most would like to see a Picasso as Picasso saw it. Even if entirely accurate in reproduction its unlikely any of us will perceive what we are seeing the same way Picasso did but at least it would be a nice place to start IMO. Agree, seeing things through Picasso’s eyes would be very interesting indeed! Audiophile Neuroscience 1 Link to comment
Popular Post baconbrain Posted June 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2018 Roger that, here my brief Kii Control review ... So I finally found some time to sit down and play around with my new Kii Control. Although I have not yet figured out how to get a non-apple remote to work with the device (see earlier post), I decided to utilize the 5 meters of connecting cable and park the control right next to my listening position. It really does remind me of my old Devialet remote, but with it’s shiny chrome finish and serious weight, I think the Dev remote was a bit more visually appealing. The Kii Control reminders me of the old cigarette lighters that one use to find in our cars. Maybe if one presses on it long enough, it will pop out to light your substance of choice …? All kidding aside, one big plus for the Control is it’s display. Something the Dev remote lacked. On the other side of the fence, it is too bad that it is not wireless. Having that long Ethernet cable trailing out the back is a tad annoying, but once one has the Control setup the way one prefers, the need to have it adjacent to the listening area is just about zero. That’s where our friendly apple remote (see above) takes over. After doing the basic configuration, I wanted to dive right into playing with the Boundary Control while still leaving the contour settings flat. I dialed in my previous “non-Control” settings of -11 and listened to a couple of tracks. Yep, sounded pretty much the same. I was also curious if controlling the volume via the Control versus my Trinnov (as before) would make an audible difference, but if there was one, I didn’t notice it. So, I turned the Boundary Control down to -6 and listened again. This time the music was definitely “meatier” but I wouldn’t say that the SQ was better. It was fuller, but a touch to flabby and soft for my taste. So then I changed direction and turned the dial to -12, the “in-corner setting.” I repeated listening and my reaction was something to the effect of “Baby, where have you been all of my life!” Everything tightened up. No flab, no soft, but impact, precision and enhanced staging. The nuance of zing which I had missed in my initial review was also back. I was really impressed by the influence of these settings. Some might question if the setting difference between -11 and -12 could really be so obvious, but it my case, it was. Note: A good 4 weeks have passed since I have written the above and I continue to enjoy the functionality and flexibility added by the Control. Just small things such as automatic On when a signal is detected from the selected input makes the experience more enjoyable not to mention the almost endless possibilities offered with the boundary and EQ settings. I was also pleasantly surprised at the home cinema capabilities (tested in a 2:0 constellation) of the Kii’s when routed through the Control with minimal latency settings. Sync was spot on with a much more enhanced experience than I had achieved with my previous Devialet setup. Conclusion: Short and sweet, “Don’t buy the Kii’s without investing a bit extra in a Control”. IMO It is worth every cent even for existing pre-amp owners. TheStupidOne, SymbolicDeath, Emlin and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment
baconbrain Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Nice review of the Kii‘s in the current issue of Hi-Fi News. Their verdict: Bearing in mind the technology, connectivity, sound performance and substantive amplification built into the Kii Audio Three, this sublime standmount surely sets the standard for every system-in-a-speaker to match. The fact that its inbuilt DSP also allows great flexibility in the placement of the Three is further inducement. But with the BXT module in the wings, we can‘t help but wonder if the best is yet to come... Couldn‘t agree more. BB Link to comment
baconbrain Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 On 7/7/2018 at 9:01 PM, tboooe said: I've been planning on upgrading my integrated amp soon but the idea of simplifying my system as well as getting rid of my room treatments is very appealing to me. I can probably sell my integrated and speakers to finance purchase of the Kii. I've started to do some research about these speakers and have some questions for owners. If I am understanding the Kii manual correctly, adjustment of the Kii DSP is a manual process (i.e. listen and adjust). Are people using room measurements from something like REW to help with the adjustments? How granular is the Kii adjustment? Can I adjust a specific frequency or just a range? Is anyone still using convolution filters in conjunction with Kii to get the exact freq response they prefer? Are room treatments still needed with the Kii or is the DSP good enough to not need help from room treatments? How is volume remotely controlled without the Kii Control? Is the Kii DSP SW/firmware upgradeable? Is anyone still using a sub or a pair of subs with the Kii? Thank you in advance. In regards to your last point, I am using my Fathom SW together with the Kii‘s and performing the bass management with my Trinnov in a 2.1 constellation. Although the integration was a bit challenging, I am quite pleased with the results. Link to comment
baconbrain Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 On 7/9/2018 at 8:59 PM, firedog said: Interesting. What's your setup for the crossover to the sub - frequency, and slope of filter, etc. ? Possibly one of the only weak points of the Kii is that they hit their limits when musical material with very low bass notes is played loudly. Do you find that adding the sub enables you to get not only better bass response, but a more dynamic, loud sound? That is, no sense of the Kiis hitting their limits? Apologies for the delayed response but work is keeping me on my toes at the moment ... I have started with a low-pass 6th order Butterworth Filter for the sub at 100 Hz (meaning the drop off begins around 80 Hz with the Trinnov) and a high pass 6th order Butterworth Filter for the Kii's at 65 Hz (topping off around 80 Hz). Using these fairly steep higher order filters, I am wanting to avoid any coloration of the bass between the SW and the Cardoid Bass Pattern of Kii's. Regarding hitting the limits of the Kii's, I have honestly never pushed them hard enough to trigger the indicator, but I occasionally do like to listen to Hip Hop and Electronic Music. In particular with these genres, without the SW, I miss the "feel" of the really deep stuff when running the Kii's purely in a 2.0 constellation. Don't get me wrong, the Kii's do an excellent job of lower end bass reproduction given the physical limits of the box, but for my personal preference, they do benefit from some additional help on the deep end. Needless to say, given the Kii's excellent Amplitude, Phase, and Timing characteristics, Sub Woofer integration is a bit of a challenge and is still work in progress for me. Being really successful without the help of any Room Optimization Measurements / Software (in my case the Trinnov) would be (imo) tough. Link to comment
baconbrain Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 58 minutes ago, Rafael Sampaio said: My Kii setup: (Kii team used it in their website) For those who use a different, “audiophile” power cable, is the difference subtle fro stock cables? What should I expect? (Due to taxes is really expensive to import goods in Brazil) Many thanks! Rafael Wow, what a fantastic view! The connector’s which work best with the Kii’s are the Furutech FI-C15 NCF IEC Connector. I put together some DIY power cables that I am very happy with. IMO replacing the stock cables is definately worth the investment. barrows 1 Link to comment
Popular Post baconbrain Posted September 7, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted September 7, 2018 Just wanted to provide a quick update around my subwoofer integration project. After listening to the system with my previously mentioned setting (80 Hz crossover, Butterworth Filter, etc.) for a few weeks, I decided to loop back with Kii Audio and ask them as to their recommendations regarding settings, etc. Here their response: “I would definitely stay way below 50Hz with the x-over to the sub, if I had to start I would start at around 30Hz and below. That´s where the Kii THREE has it´s -3dB roll off point, so you could slowly start to fiill the spectrum below that. If you want extra SPL from the system, you can gradually turn down the Boundary control to -12(dB). If you do, you want the sub to come in below 50Hz roughly. In any case, if you measure the room response of the Kii THREE only (with your Boundary setting of choice), the Trinnov measurement should give you a proper indication where the power response drops off and try to fill that with the sub. Don´t forget to roughly time align sub and Kiis. I would also experiment with using the front wall as a boundary layer for the subwoofer! The benefit being that you can eq the sub response to put out less energy (roughly -6dB) and the subwoofers time aligned (to the Kiis) wave front will also be cardioid of course.” Given that my boundry setting are currently set at -12 with the corner placement of the Kii’s, I decided to change the active crossover settings to 50 Hz and utilize 8th order Linkwitz-Riley LP and HP Filters. This resulted in a much more distinct bass with a percieved positive influence to the SPL. If any of you are considering a 2.1 constellation with the Kii’s, I can only recommend that you give it a try. It is definately my preference setup and adds another dimension to an already excellent set of speakers. fpalm69 and Cazzesman 2 Link to comment
Popular Post baconbrain Posted September 9, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted September 9, 2018 Not wanting to sound like a fanboy, but as I sit here this afternoon and listen to music, I cannot help but to be amazed at how good the Kii’s really sound. Sometimes it is nothing short of magical ... barrows, phosphorein, firedog and 2 others 1 4 Link to comment
baconbrain Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 3 hours ago, TheStupidOne said: In my experience there's no best way to do this, it depends on the room and the possibilities the chosen dsp gives you. I used Minidsp 4x10hd with digital out to Kii. Thanks for sharing and completely agree. My intent is only to share some of the settings that I have experimented with. The best way to integrate a sub is like looking for the holy grail. You believe it is out there somewhere but finding it can be a real challenge. ? Link to comment
baconbrain Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 19 hours ago, atletico said: Feeding my Kii Threes with some high class vinyl...sounds great in my living room. Video and sound from my iPhone 8. I will soon be audition the BXT system but I'm not sure how this could take my already great sounding system to a higher level, but I'm really curious what the BXT could do... IMG_0014.m4v Good looking setup. Is that Curious George in the cabinet? Link to comment
baconbrain Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 5 hours ago, atletico said: This is the famous Scandinavian monkey from the danish designer Kay Bojesen https://www.kaybojesen-denmark.com Very nice! Link to comment
baconbrain Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 13 minutes ago, dustblue said: I want to know if my overload test is correct, if kii threes output is really limited at roughly 105dB peak. I have a delicated home theater which is 6.3m*4.7m*2.7m and a lobby measures 7*9*6 I need lots of speakers in both rooms. At those levels, I believe the next thing you will need is a hearing aid ... Link to comment
Popular Post baconbrain Posted October 26, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted October 26, 2018 1 hour ago, dustblue said: Kii engineers replied to me, they perform the test exactly as the way I did and got the very same results, which is for Gojira's <drum solo> limiter kicks in at 81.5 volume on controller, while the pirates theme overload at 83. They also responded with lots of useful information which could not be found publicly, I am waiting for their permission to publicly disclose it, if granted I would start another thread to say it. Thanks for those who helped, though none of you could achieve a very simple correct result. I don't know where you did wrong and I am not sure why you tried so hard to protect Kii (however you actually failed to do it) and ignore some very simple truth(or being unable to find out). If you are not trying to sound rude, you are doing a pretty poor job of it... phosphorein, Emlin and grubble 3 Link to comment
baconbrain Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 10 minutes ago, dustblue said: Those sound tracks are not atypical. When mastering music there would be only a 20dB headroom above calibrated sound level (77dB single speaker pink noise calibration), any louder would cause signal clipping, so however sick a track is mastered, in a calibrated environment it would sound at most 100dB on the calibrated position(double speaker), it is not limitless. Here is the reference if you are interested: https://www.digido.com/portfolio-item/level-practices-part-2/ Personally I find all of the “pink noise” you are generating to be of absolutely no value. opus101, Ralf11 and dustblue 1 2 Link to comment
baconbrain Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 4 hours ago, dustblue said: It’s the fact that matters, not subjuective opinions. The fact is Kii Three does overload at 80 around levels. None of you could confirm this is why I turned to Kii engineers for help.And they proved I am right about this fact. The best info I hear is that they confirmed BXT could increase 10dB headroom which would make it only overload around/above 90 volume, according to my test that would most likely be enough for my need to put them in the big room. (Genelec1238 is 10dB louder than 8351, just so you have the impression) For their original reply I have to wait for their permission to disclose. It’s a free world, so go buy a different set of speakers to suit your purpose (whatever that might be). Also recommend you stop polluting this thread with a topic to which you evidently have a conclusion (pat yourself on the back) and the majority here cannot (or has a need to) reproduce. Emlin 1 Link to comment
baconbrain Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Bart van der Laan said: Gents, Hold your horses, both camps are correct! You are very likely running different firmware versions...the only difference in these versions is a signal gain of 12dB. Looking at your stated numbers relating to limiter activity and boundary settings this matches exactly! The gain increase request came from some customers who were using their Kii’s on the analog input with a relatively low output signal source (+4 dBu for example) whilst the hardware inside the Kii accommodates for 18dBu. This hardware design choice was based on requirements in the pro sector but in hindsight is not the best match overall. These customers did not get enough SPL with their analog chain on full throttle. The same is true on the digital inputs if you mix or master with small signal content on one of your channel strips. At some point in time in the beginning of this year we decided to put this high gain firmware version on by default. It matches the majority of source devices out there better and is not harmful in any way. There is a slight increase in hiss on the tweeter channel if you are on analog. We decided not to go public with it since it is not a bug but a feature to be released in future along with some other updates. There is no control dial for this on the speaker so it is not settable especially without a Kii Control present, and so for now it is just a matter of uploading the firmware version you desire if the speakers are already in the field. We are planning to incorporate this in the Kii Control as a software control in a more extended way with source volume offset per channel but it is not realized yet and I cannot give you a definitive timeline on it. These conversations are the main reason for me to refrain taking part of forum activities in general. I was made aware of the temperature of this thread and decided to step in. I do not plan to make a routine out of it since it distracts me from doing the things that make your music come alive I sincerely hope this settles your debate and you can all sit back and follow Atletico’s example of share and enjoy! At whatever SPL floats your boat, although I do share the hope that everyone takes care about their hearing health. If you have any questions, feel free to contact us directly, not through a forum please! Like dustblue’s inquiry we always try to make an effort to answer as quickly and elaborate as possible. @dustblue, if you are still watching this feel free to share our message here we sent to you. Thanks everyone for embracing our products! Cheers, Bart Thanks Bart, that certainly explains it. I personally would really welcome it if the Kii Team would participate in the forum. Don’t get me wrong, your E-mail communication is excellent, but details like the above imo would certainly benefit the masses. Emlin 1 Link to comment
baconbrain Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Not sure how this topic will resonate, but I thought it might be interesting to gather some feedback from the Kii Owner Community as to songs one likes to play when showcasing (or showing off) their systems. If enough interest is given, we could put together a public playlist in Tidal/Qobuz? Realize that our tastes will certainly vary but perhaps it is worth giving a try. Here my first few recommendations with no order of preference (format Title - Artist - Album - Comments): 1. Paradis Perdus - Christine and the Queens - Christine and the Queens - Female vocals 2. Tin Pan Alley - Stevie Ray Vaughan & Double Trouble - Can't Stand the Weather 3. Electrified - Boris Blank - Electrified - Electronic 4. When the Funk Drops - Far East Movement, Deorro, Uberjak'd - Single - Party Music Link to comment
baconbrain Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, fpalm69 said: Thanks for the quick response. What about the 90ms delay that the Kii Three has in exact mode? Can the Minidsp compensate for that delay? Hi fpalm69, So your attempt with the 205 didn‘t work? fpalm69 1 Link to comment
baconbrain Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 18 hours ago, firedog said: Two totally different answers: Beyoncé, “Partition” Single-very deep big bass. Mahler 6th Symphony, Bernstein with Vienna Philharmonic. Especially final movement crescendos, incredible dynamics 17 hours ago, 2marco said: Great advise, baconbrain My recommendations ... song, album, author, source - crucificado, a jazz hour with Archie Shepp , qobuz - not your bottle, Dandys rule ok, The Dandy Warhols , qobuz - I’m finding it harder to be a gentleman, White Blood Cells, The White Stripes, qobuz - How now my love, A midsummer night’s dream, Britten ( Alfred Deller conductor), qobuz - I’ll remember April, Mingus at Antibes ( remast. Edition), qobuz Guys, Thanks for contributing. Really good stuff and very diverse. Reflects well on the Kii's capabilities with various genres. I am putting together a playlist in Tidal but struggling a bit when searching for the classical stuff. Could you check and let me know if you can find your classical selections in Tidal? Will publish the playlist once I have them all in. Don't currently have a Qobuz account, so I am limited in that regard for the moment. Please feel free if anyone else in the community would like to contribute. The more the better, regardless of preference. Link to comment
baconbrain Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 A humbling moment ... occurred yesterday evening when I visited a good friend and listened to his newly updated system. (Speakers alone cost 40 k Euro ..) The experience was absolutely mind boggling and intense. Regardless of genre, his system tackled it all with a finesse and detail which sometimes left me speechless. As much as I really like my Kii Three 2.1 setup, it is definitely in another class when comparing to such heavyweights. Unfortunately for me (and my budget) experience continues to show that truly top level electronics have their price .... Is there a end of the audiophile Rainbow? Link to comment
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