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Kii Three - my impressions and pro reviews


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Really unfortunate that I will not be able to attend the High End in Munich this year (traveling) especially since it is only 2 hour drive from my place. Would love to hear what these monsters should like.

 

On the other hand, it is probably better for my bank account, and living space, that I don’t listen to them ....

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18 hours ago, Kelly said:

I am curious what these will offer. The Threes already go down to subsonic frequency with little roll-off. I am guessing these would allow you to adequately compress larger rooms, go louder overall, and probably add some sort more tangible "jump" that seems to come from systems with forward firing woofers. The only other thing I wonder is if the additional bass drivers and their varied vertical heights gives the system more degrees of freedom with which to control the bass radiation. The Three by itself only directs the bass radiation in the horizontal plane, they had talked about a later system having more drivers to control radiation in the vertical plane to limit floor /ceiling reflections.

 

The power spec is a bit concerning, I wonder if you could start popping circuit breakers pretty easily at least in the US. I wrote Kii asking about power draw on the Three prior to getting an online UPS. They said a single Three speaker had been measured at drawing 1400W at a peak, so at least double that for a pair. You might theoretically need a special appliance line to run these things with the BXTs. Then again, you might blow roof of your house at 25% volume...

 

I am still waiting for them to activate Bluetooth. And they still haven't ever gotten my Control IR working. Grumble, grumble...

Ditto the concerns regarding power requirements. I am already borderline with my 2O Amp fuse for the equipment I have in place ....

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  • 3 weeks later...
2 hours ago, sapporo said:

Cabling is potentially the most divisive topic in amateur audio. Not so among pros and engineers. It is hard to suspect the Kii crew of sabotaging their own sound at the exhibition. The Cat 5 cable is characterized in a standard descrbing its performance up to 100Mhz. It relies on balanced differential signalling.

As long as the standard is observed there is no reason to go for expensive versions. Same with audio cables- their performance is dependent on well known and described physical characteristics. And then the power cables...Let’s just think for a moment about all that wiring in the building, the power lines to the trafo station... The last stretch from the wall socket to the device would somehow influence things critically?

Science and standards are either true or false, individual perception of the senses is somewhere in between. :)

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9 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

I'm not really sure that anyone other than the recording engineer and others present at the recording know what its 'supposed' to sound like.

+1

 

and even then, it is their personal perception of what it “should” sound like, which is no guarantee that I, or anyone else, would prefer it.

 

For me, music is an art and not a science. Some like Picasso, and some don’t ...

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2 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

I agree but nonetheless, I guess some/many/most would like to see a Picasso as Picasso saw it. Even if entirely accurate in reproduction its unlikely any of us will perceive what we are seeing the same way Picasso did but at least it would be a nice place to start IMO.

 

Agree, seeing things through Picasso’s eyes would be very interesting indeed!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Nice review of the Kii‘s in the current issue of Hi-Fi News.

 

Their verdict:

 

Bearing in mind the technology, connectivity, sound performance and substantive amplification built into the Kii Audio Three, this sublime standmount surely sets the standard for every system-in-a-speaker to match. The fact that its inbuilt DSP also allows great flexibility in the placement of the Three is further inducement. But with the BXT module in the wings,  we can‘t help but wonder if the best is yet to come...

 

Couldn‘t agree more.

 

BB

 

 

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On 7/7/2018 at 9:01 PM, tboooe said:

I've been planning on upgrading my integrated amp soon but the idea of simplifying my system as well as getting rid of my room treatments is very appealing to me. I can probably sell my integrated and speakers to finance purchase of the Kii.  I've started to do some research about these speakers and have some questions for owners.

  • If I am understanding the Kii manual correctly, adjustment of the Kii DSP is a manual process (i.e. listen and adjust).  Are people using room measurements from something like REW to help with the adjustments?
  • How granular is the Kii adjustment?  Can I adjust a specific frequency or just a range?
  • Is anyone still using convolution filters in conjunction with Kii to get the exact freq response they prefer?  
  • Are room treatments still needed with the Kii or is the DSP good enough to not need help from room treatments?
  • How is volume remotely controlled without the Kii Control?
  • Is the Kii DSP SW/firmware upgradeable?
  • Is anyone still using a sub or a pair of subs with the Kii?

Thank you in advance.

 

 

In regards to your last point, I am using my Fathom SW together with the Kii‘s and performing the bass management with my Trinnov in a 2.1 constellation. Although the integration was a bit challenging, I am quite pleased with the results.

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On 7/9/2018 at 8:59 PM, firedog said:

Interesting. What's your setup for the crossover to the sub - frequency, and slope of filter, etc. ?

 

Possibly one of the only weak points of the Kii is that they hit their limits when musical material with very low bass notes is played loudly. 

 

Do you find that adding the sub enables you to get not only better bass response, but  a more dynamic, loud sound? That is, no sense of the Kiis hitting their limits?

 

 

Apologies for the delayed response but work is keeping me on my toes at the moment ...

 

I have started with a low-pass 6th order Butterworth Filter for the sub at 100 Hz (meaning the drop off begins around 80 Hz with the Trinnov) and a high pass 6th order Butterworth Filter for the Kii's at 65 Hz (topping off around 80 Hz).  Using these fairly steep higher order filters, I am wanting to avoid any coloration of the bass between the SW and the Cardoid Bass Pattern of Kii's. 

 

Regarding hitting the limits of the Kii's, I have honestly never pushed them hard enough to trigger the indicator, but I occasionally do like to listen to Hip Hop and Electronic Music. In particular with these genres, without the SW, I miss the "feel" of the really deep stuff when running the Kii's purely in a 2.0 constellation. Don't get me wrong, the Kii's do an excellent job of lower end bass reproduction given the physical limits of the box, but for my personal preference, they do benefit from some additional help on the deep end.

 

Needless to say, given the Kii's excellent Amplitude, Phase, and Timing characteristics, Sub Woofer integration is a bit of a challenge and is still work in progress for me. Being really successful without the help of any Room Optimization Measurements / Software (in my case the Trinnov) would be (imo) tough.   

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  • 1 month later...

 

58 minutes ago, Rafael Sampaio said:

My Kii setup: (Kii team used it in their website) 

 

For those who use a different, “audiophile” power cable, is the difference subtle fro

 stock cables? What should I expect? (Due to taxes is really expensive to import goods in Brazil)

 

Many thanks! 

 

Rafael

 

D3FF92CA-B1EF-4A1C-8136-8CBFEFB47CC3.jpeg

 

Wow, what a fantastic view! 

 

The connector’s which work best with the Kii’s are the Furutech FI-C15 NCF IEConnector. I put together some DIY power cables that I am very happy with. IMO replacing the stock cables is definately worth the investment.

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  • 2 weeks later...
3 hours ago, TheStupidOne said:

In my experience there's no best way to do this, it depends on the room and the possibilities the chosen dsp gives you. I used Minidsp 4x10hd with digital out to Kii.

 

Thanks for sharing and completely agree. My intent is only to share some of the settings that I have experimented with.

 

The best way to integrate a sub is like looking for the holy grail. You believe it is out there somewhere but finding it can be a real challenge. ? 

 

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  • 1 month later...
19 hours ago, atletico said:

Feeding my Kii Threes with some high class vinyl...sounds great in my living room. Video and sound from my iPhone 8.

I will soon be audition the BXT system but I'm not sure how this could take my already great sounding system to a higher level, but I'm really curious what the BXT could do...

 

Good looking setup.

 

Is that Curious George in the cabinet?

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  • 2 weeks later...
13 minutes ago, dustblue said:

I want to know if my overload test is correct, if kii threes output is really  limited at roughly 105dB peak. I have a delicated home theater which is 6.3m*4.7m*2.7m

and a lobby measures 7*9*6

I need lots of speakers in both rooms.

At those levels, I believe the next thing you will need is a hearing aid ...

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10 minutes ago, dustblue said:

Those sound tracks are not atypical.

When mastering music there would be only a 20dB headroom above calibrated sound level (77dB single speaker pink noise calibration), any louder would cause signal clipping, so however sick a track is mastered, in a calibrated environment it would sound at most 100dB on the calibrated position(double speaker), it is not limitless. 

Here is the reference if you are interested:

https://www.digido.com/portfolio-item/level-practices-part-2/

Personally I find all of the “pink noise” you are generating to be of absolutely no value.

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4 hours ago, dustblue said:

It’s the fact that matters, not subjuective opinions. The fact is Kii Three does overload at 80 around levels. None of you could confirm this is why I turned to Kii engineers for help.And they proved I am right about this fact.

 

The best info I hear is that they confirmed  BXT could increase 10dB headroom which would make it only overload around/above 90 volume, according to my test that would most likely be enough for my need to put them in the big room.

(Genelec1238 is 10dB louder than 8351, just so you have the impression)

 

For their original reply I have to wait for their permission to disclose.

It’s a free world, so go buy a different set of speakers to suit your purpose (whatever that might be).

 

Also recommend you stop polluting this thread with a topic to which you evidently have a conclusion (pat yourself on the back) and the majority here cannot (or has a need to) reproduce.

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1 hour ago, Bart van der Laan said:

Gents,

 

Hold your horses, both camps are correct! 

 

You are very likely running different firmware versions...the only difference in these versions is a signal gain of 12dB. 

Looking at your stated numbers relating to limiter activity and boundary settings this matches exactly!

 

The gain increase request came from some customers who were using their Kii’s on the analog input with a relatively low output signal source (+4 dBu for example) whilst the hardware inside the Kii accommodates for 18dBu. This hardware design choice was based on requirements in the pro sector but in hindsight is not the best match overall.

These customers did not get enough SPL with their analog chain on full throttle.

The same is true on the digital inputs if you mix or master with small signal content on one of your channel strips.

 

At some point in time in the beginning of this year we decided to put this high gain firmware version on by default. It matches the majority of source devices out there better and is not harmful in any way.

There is a slight increase in hiss on the tweeter channel if you are on analog.

We decided not to go public with it since it is not a bug but a feature to be released in future along with some other updates.

 

There is no control dial for this on the speaker so it is not settable especially without a Kii Control present, and so for now it is just a matter of uploading the firmware version you desire if the speakers are already in the field.

We are planning to incorporate this in the Kii Control as a software control in a more extended way with source volume offset per channel but it is not realized yet and I cannot give you a definitive timeline on it.

 

These conversations are the main reason for me to refrain taking part of forum activities in general. I was made aware of the temperature of this thread and decided to step in. I do not plan to make a routine out of it since it distracts me from doing the things that make your music come alive ;)

 

I sincerely hope this settles your debate and you can all sit back and follow Atletico’s example of share and enjoy! At whatever SPL floats your boat, although I do share the hope that everyone takes care about their hearing health.

 

If you have any questions, feel free to contact us directly, not through a forum please!

Like dustblue’s inquiry we always try to make an effort to answer as quickly and elaborate as possible. 

 

@dustblue, if you are still watching this feel free to share our message here we sent to you.

 

Thanks everyone for embracing our products!

 

Cheers,

Bart

Thanks Bart, that certainly explains it. 

 

I personally would really welcome it if the Kii Team would participate in the forum. Don’t get me wrong, your E-mail communication is excellent, but details like the above imo would certainly benefit the masses.

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  • 4 months later...

Not sure how this topic will resonate, but I thought it might be interesting to gather some feedback from the Kii Owner Community as to songs one likes to play when showcasing (or showing off) their systems. If enough interest is given, we could put together a public playlist in Tidal/Qobuz? Realize that our tastes will certainly vary but perhaps it is worth giving a try. Here my first few recommendations with no order of preference (format Title - Artist - Album - Comments):

 

1. Paradis Perdus - Christine and the Queens - Christine and the Queens - Female vocals 

2. Tin Pan Alley - Stevie Ray Vaughan & Double Trouble -  Can't Stand the Weather

3. Electrified - Boris Blank - Electrified - Electronic

4. When the Funk Drops - Far East Movement, Deorro, Uberjak'd - Single - Party Music

 

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18 hours ago, firedog said:

Two totally different answers:

Beyoncé, “Partition” Single-very deep big bass.

Mahler 6th Symphony, Bernstein with Vienna Philharmonic. Especially final movement crescendos, incredible dynamics

 

17 hours ago, 2marco said:

Great advise, baconbrain

My  recommendations ... song, album, author, source

- crucificado, a jazz hour with Archie Shepp , qobuz

- not your bottle, Dandys rule ok, The Dandy Warhols , qobuz

- I’m finding it harder to be a gentleman, White Blood Cells, The White Stripes, qobuz

- How now my love, A midsummer night’s dream, Britten ( Alfred Deller conductor), qobuz

- I’ll remember April, Mingus at Antibes ( remast. Edition), qobuz

 

Guys,

 

Thanks for contributing. Really good stuff and very diverse. Reflects well on the Kii's capabilities with various genres. I am putting together a playlist in Tidal but struggling a bit when searching for the classical stuff. Could you check and let me know if you can find your classical selections in Tidal? Will publish the playlist once I have them all in. Don't currently have a Qobuz account, so I am limited in that regard for the moment.

 

Please feel free if anyone else in the community would like to contribute. The more the better, regardless of preference.

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A humbling moment ...

 

occurred yesterday evening when I visited a good friend and listened to his newly updated system. (Speakers alone cost 40 k Euro ..) The experience was absolutely mind boggling and intense. Regardless of genre, his system tackled it all with a finesse and detail which sometimes left me speechless.

 

As much as I really like my Kii Three 2.1 setup, it is definitely in another class when comparing to such heavyweights. Unfortunately for me (and my budget) experience continues to show that truly top level electronics have their price .... Is there a end of the audiophile Rainbow?

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