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Kii Three - my impressions and pro reviews


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With the Ultrarendu, Roon and squeezelite output. Roon is better in my setup. But local files are magic in combination with the Kii's. I also heard demo's with the Kii wich sounded a bit poor. But the source is a very important piece of the chain. 

Kii Three / Kii Control / Lush 3 Uptone Iso Regen-Farad super 3 / OpticalRendu Farad super 3 / Etherregen / Roon Rock-Farad super 3

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10 hours ago, badboygolf16v said:

 

What would these world class engineers know about this stuff anyway? Ethernet cables, power cables and digital source will make no difference to a properly engineered system.

 

I totally agree. The source or cabling won't make any difference. I think that in the case of the BXT that listeners aren't used to the reduced early floor reflections (who is?), so things will sound a bit odd at first (even to THREE owners). Given some time, however, I reckon people will come round. Unless they are really attached to inaccurate sound...

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3 hours ago, simonp said:

Tidal or qobuz never give me a magical sound.  

 

Spot on! There is no comparison between the local fIle and a Tidal streamed file. Local always sounds superior. I suspect that the combination of room acoustics and Tidal led to problems in Munich. I would never make a quality judgement based on an experience at an audio show.

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1 minute ago, phosphorein said:

 

Spot on! There is no comparison between the local fIle and a Tidal streamed file. Local always sounds superior. I suspect that the combination of room acoustics and Tidal led to problems in Munich. I would never make a quality judgement based on an experience at an audio show.

There is a total equivalence between local files and those streamed. If they are the same file. That can be difficult to verify, with so many different masterings etc around. But the same digits will always sound the same.

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1 minute ago, Emlin said:

There is a total equivalence between local files and those streamed. If they are the same file. That can be difficult to verify, with so many different masterings etc around. But the same digits will always sound the same.

 

The problem is that I don’t know that the files are the same. As you say, different masterings or possible “watermarks” on the Tidal files...all I know is the Tidal files sound more astringent with the Kii.

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9 minutes ago, phosphorein said:

 

The problem is that I don’t know that the files are the same. As you say, different masterings or possible “watermarks” on the Tidal files...all I know is the Tidal files sound more astringent with the Kii.

If the sound is always more "astringent" to you, I suspect expectation (or similar) bias, as there is no other explanation known to science . Unless Tidal are playing with things. :) 

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3 minutes ago, Emlin said:

If the sound is always more "astringent" to you, I suspect expectation (or similar) bias, as there is no other explanation known to science . Unless Tidal are playing with things. :) 

 

Your last sentence may be valid. I have not noticed this with the Primephonic stream.

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Just now, phosphorein said:

 

Not to my knowledge. MQA is a sham IMHO and I have no means to process MQA files.

I totally agree that it is a sham, and backdoor DRM, but if you choose the "master" version on Tidal, that's what you get. Tidal does the "first unfolding" for you. To your detriment.

 

Perhaps the only reason that I don't use Tidal is the fact that they are giving money to MQA, which should be boycotted by all music lovers.

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2 hours ago, Emlin said:

If the sound is always more "astringent" to you, I suspect expectation (or similar) bias, as there is no other explanation known to science . Unless Tidal are playing with things. :) 

It's already known that Universal Music watermarks all their files on Tidal and other streaming services, so the SQ for those won't be the equivalent of the sound of a local file.You should probably not be so sure that your absolute statements about what sounds the same are as true as you think.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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I didn't know about Universal Music watermarks, but surely they are not the only only providers. Thank you for that information, though. I am still absolutely certain that the same file will sound the same. And that is all that I said. Thanks again for that info, though. :)

 

By the way, if streaming services aren't providing the unadulterated files, they should be shot!

 

 

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There are also sound engineers saying they make a different mixes for cd and for spotify. And there are of coarse also different mixes or remasters to make it sound more "spirit at age"

And in my opinion that's realy sad. They have to keep the original as an art piece.

 

But that's not the only difference, I have a hifi account but I don't think the music is completely lossless.

Kii Three / Kii Control / Lush 3 Uptone Iso Regen-Farad super 3 / OpticalRendu Farad super 3 / Etherregen / Roon Rock-Farad super 3

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4 hours ago, Emlin said:

I didn't know about Universal Music watermarks, but surely they are not the only only providers. Thank you for that information, though. I am still absolutely certain that the same file will sound the same. And that is all that I said. Thanks again for that info, though. :)

 

By the way, if streaming services aren't providing the unadulterated files, they should be shot!

 

 

They can only provide what they are given. They can't tell the labels what file to provide. Rights belong to the labels, the streaming countries are just "renting" the right to stream.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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On 19 May 2018 at 2:59 PM, badboygolf16v said:

 

What would these world class engineers know about this stuff anyway? Ethernet cables, power cables and digital source will make no difference to a properly engineered system.

 

Irony, right? If you meant that seriously ... dream on ... nuff said.

Apple Powerbook G4 15\", iTunes, Metric Halo LIO-8, active speakers

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A large amount of folks are reporting less sound quality on playback from Tidal vs. locally stored files.  The thing is, one is never "sure" what they might be getting form a streaming service, whereas, if one is careful, one can know what they are getting with their own locally stored files.

I hear about audiophiles who are switching to streaming music entirely, and it makes me sad, if they have not really verified the quality level they are getting.  It is kind of like the wholesale switch to MP3 files for most people (non-audiophiles), i think the prevalence of MP3 playback in the consumer market is partly responsible for less "engagement" in music listening, and now we have streaming which also seems to destined to produce less "engagement".

Music is a wonderful, life changing experience, as audiophiles we need to fight backs and demand the highest possible playback performance, lest music listening as an life changing/affirming experience be lost.

 

Then there is the issue of compensation for musicians, as far as i can tell compensation for musician is a real problem, still, with all streaming services.  If musicians are not properly compensated for their work, what do we have?  A bunch of amateur musicians with day jobs, and not enough time to perfect their skills and art...

I feel like, if one subscribes to these services, they are part of the problem, think about your choices and how they affect the world.

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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23 minutes ago, barrows said:

A large amount of folks are reporting less sound quality on playback from Tidal vs. locally stored files.  The thing is, one is never "sure" what they might be getting form a streaming service, whereas, if one is careful, one can know what they are getting with their own locally stored files.

I hear about audiophiles who are switching to streaming music entirely, and it makes me sad, if they have not really verified the quality level they are getting.  It is kind of like the wholesale switch to MP3 files for most people (non-audiophiles), i think the prevalence of MP3 playback in the consumer market is partly responsible for less "engagement" in music listening, and now we have streaming which also seems to destined to produce less "engagement".

Music is a wonderful, life changing experience, as audiophiles we need to fight backs and demand the highest possible playback performance, lest music listening as an life changing/affirming experience be lost.

 

Then there is the issue of compensation for musicians, as far as i can tell compensation for musician is a real problem, still, with all streaming services.  If musicians are not properly compensated for their work, what do we have?  A bunch of amateur musicians with day jobs, and not enough time to perfect their skills and art...

I feel like, if one subscribes to these services, they are part of the problem, think about your choices and how they affect the world.

 

I love Tidal, and listen to it a lot. When I really like something I find there that I listen to repeatedly, I buy the download.

But almost every time I buy a download that I've listened to on Tidal it sounds better in local playback. Not by a huge amount, but enough to notice the difference.

 

 I do not think this is simply expectation bias. This could be different mastering, but I'm not convinced that's all that's going on - some of the albums seem to be the same master. And I don't think the issue is the typical "bits are bits" thing.

There are some explanations I can think of, I don't think we need to start a whole discussion about this in this thread.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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yep, back to the Kii 3!

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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10 hours ago, barrows said:

yep, back to the Kii 3!

 

Barrows, I agree!  So... let me not talk about the THEEs for a second (sorry, but it's a closely related product)!  Anyway, any thoughts about the Grimm MU1 streamer as the ultimate digital source component for the Kii THREEs (with or without BXT)?  EXPENSIVE, yes, but it seems like it has a lot of Kii-friendly, cutting-edge tech in the box.

 

 

Given Bruno Putzeys' (and most of the Kii team's) involvement with Grimm, this streamer seems like it could fill in the final missing link for Kii (the source), while still keeping it "all in the family."  (Granted, I've seen no mention of Putzey's involvement with the MU1 but, certainly, the design teams must be aware of what the other is doing).  Note the AES output....

 

Looks pretty too:

Grimm MU1 streamer

Roon --> ultraRendu/Uptone LPS-1 --> Kii CONTROL --> Kii THREE active speakers (everything on Black Ravioli bases and footers)

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What a load of w*nk! 4k euros for a streamer. I'll stick with my Squeezebox. Jitter? It's dead, boys. A non issue, sorted many years ago. What I really hate about it is that the guy was lying, and he knew it. What a c*nt!

 

And Bruno Putzeys no longer has any involvement with Grimm. He offered them the concept of the Kii THREE, and they stupidly declined.

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Well of course, we at Sonore are very happy to point out that our Sonore Signature Rendu SE is perfect Ethernet interface to use with the Kii 3 Control unit!

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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16 hours ago, Emlin said:

What a load of w*nk! 4k euros for a streamer. I'll stick with my Squeezebox. Jitter? It's dead, boys. A non issue, sorted many years ago. What I really hate about it is that the guy was lying, and he knew it. What a c*nt!

 

Interesting.  Well, that's an opinion shared by no one.

Roon --> ultraRendu/Uptone LPS-1 --> Kii CONTROL --> Kii THREE active speakers (everything on Black Ravioli bases and footers)

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