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Kii Three - my impressions and pro reviews


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5 minutes ago, Mazza said:

 

Nope. Still don't get it.

 

Rather than theorise, why not just put them in your lobby or wherever, play them at whatever insane levels you want to, for as long as you want to [you have already been advised that the limiter will prevent damage to them] and see if it's loud enough for you? That way, you can assess SQ, measure whatever SP levels that you want to etc and if your are in doubt that your particular Kii's don't meet spec, you can raise the issue directly with Kii. 

 

You may have picked up that none of the respondents have an inkling to play their Kii's at the Controller volume of 100 for any lengthy duration, so if your issue is questioning the durability of the Kii's or how the limiter works when treated this way, you really need to speak with Kii. I think I can guesstimate their response.

Because I cant. My house is under decoration and I wont be able to put speakers in it until 8 months later. 

Right now both 8351s and kii threes are in my small working room, I bought both to see which to go for theater surround speakers and if I can use kii threes in my lobby.

None of the respondents use it at 100volume does not means no one did it, maybe someone did and liked it just did not see this thread yet. Who knows.

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This took a weird turn. The gentleman is concerned about frying the Kii's due to the ease of which he can provoke the limiters.

 

At those levels I'm pretty sure the limiters only act upon the bass, not higher in the range. Nevertheless, register the speakers on the website and get 5 year warranty. Then try to kill your speakers for as long as you like.

 

If you test the speakers from above 200 hz and up instead of full range, at ehat point do you see the limiters kicking in? That's the answer you're looking for.

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3 hours ago, mitchco said:

Wow, I am curious at what sound pressure level this is being listened to at the listening position? Do either of you have a SPL meter or can use a SPL meter app on your phone as a rough indicator?

 

I only managed to get the limiter to kick in on some very bass heavy tracks approaching maximum output. That's perceived as 4 times louder than reference level of 83 db SPL...

 

So what are folks measuring SPL wise?

Did you attenuate the signal before it enter the kii control? If not it would overload (flash red) start from 77 with really bass heavy stuff in my short experience with kii threes. 

Pros like to use things like Trinnov to process the signal first and adjust volume on trinnov too (leave kii control volume at 96 or something like that) I am not sure if you are doing the same.

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7 minutes ago, TheStupidOne said:

This took a weird turn. The gentleman is concerned about frying the Kii's due to the ease of which he can provoke the limiters.

 

At those levels I'm pretty sure the limiters only act upon the bass, not higher in the range. Nevertheless, register the speakers on the website and get 5 year warranty. Then try to kill your speakers for as long as you like.

 

If you test the speakers from above 200 hz and up instead of full range, at ehat point do you see the limiters kicking in? That's the answer you're looking for.

Thanks man.

I can only overload the threes with heavy bass, not anything else. It would make my ears feel uncomfortable before overload if I just use 200hz above materials.

Guess that’s why BXT exists. 

My problem is I cant try it at extreme volume myself because right now my listening room is pretty small, I dont know if anyone is using it in large rooms/far field.

(small rooms make first reflections mix with direct sound hence we would feel louder. cant listen at the same higher sound pressure level like in big rooms)

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3 hours ago, dustblue said:

Have you ever burned a HF driver? If yes then you would know why I am so concerned about overload/overdrive 

 

Have you ever burned out your hearing? Doesn’t come back, you know.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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11 hours ago, atletico said:

 

I use a Audio-Technica AT33PTG/II Moving Coil Cartridge together with the simple but very nice sounding REGA Phono MC preamp.  http://www.the-ear.net/review-hardware/rega-ania-fono-mc-mc-cartridge-and-phono-stage

I use the REGA with a special made 2 X 2,5 metre phono to XLR cable direct into the back of each Kii Three speaker. All controlled from the Kii Control. Works very nice.

The output signal from this turntable system into Kii Three are about -10dB compared to my digital sources but this is no problem in my living room with a max volum on the Kii Control set at 85 - 87 for playing vinyl is more than loud enough ..

 

 

 

Thanks @atletico I wonder if there is an RCA to XLR adapter, hmmm will need to have a search if this exists. I purchased the AQ XLR cables specifically for connecting a phono stage to the Kii Three.

Kii Three, Kii Stands, Kii Control. Aurender N100, 1TB SSD. Rega Planer 10 with Alpheta 3 MC cart, RCM Sensor 2 Phono Stage. PS Audio AC5 Power Regenerator. Audioquest Cat5 Ethernet, Diamond USB & Yukon XLR.

Blue Mountains, NSW, Australia.

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3 hours ago, Jud said:

 

Have you ever burned out your hearing? Doesn’t come back, you know.

I think I kind of confused you. You DO NOT have to listen at a ear piercing level to see kii threes overload, just turn the control to 80 volume, leave whatever preamp you are using at full volume(meaning dont attenuate the signal before it enters kii threes), play some high dynamic music and I bet you would see the limiter kicks in. 

At 80 volume if you sit 3m away from the speakers the listening sound presure level of standard pink noise would be most likely in the 70-75dB range, that’s even less than standard mixing level.

If you dont know what music is suitable for this than just listen to Yello.

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For people still dont understand why I am so obsessed with the limiter, it’s because figuring this out could potentially save me 200 thousand usd. 

I originally plan to buy wilson alexx (or similar big speakers) and put it in the lobby(forgive me english is not my first language so if this”lobby” word triggers any bad emotion response in your human nature, I apologize for that) , however the kii threes are so good that if could fit large rooms I would rather save the money for something else.

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‘Actually there are certain insdustrial standards and recommandations like ITU.1170 EBU.128 ,ATSC A85, the list goes very long, but I have no intention to educate people on internet, because even for Pro users, these are indeed very easily misinterpreted.‘

My dealer’s reply regarding the calibration, maybe you can check it out if you are interested in the calibration, though not directly linked with the overload problem.

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2 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

foyer?

 

what is your native language?  people all over the world are here so I expect someone can translate for you

The biggest room in your house where you and your family spend your leisure time together, often hooked with dining room, or part of the lobby is functioned as dinning room

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7 hours ago, Emlin said:

the first rule of the troll: apologise for kicking things off in the first place, claim to be misunderstood or a victim, then kick things off again as if you'd never apologised in the first place. Masturbate furiously but fail to come. Repeat.

I don't think he is a troll. He has a very specific use in mind, an to my understanding he misunderstands the specs of the Kii and thinks they don't meet spec in his usage scenario. 
Again if he wants to run the Kiis so they are  engaging the limiter on an almost continual basis, I can't imagine that being a long term usage scenario. But instead of asking us, he should be asking Kii. Email usually works. You can call the number on the web site and talk to one of the company principals. It's a very small company. 

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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2 hours ago, dustblue said:

For people still dont understand why I am so obsessed with the limiter, it’s because figuring this out could potentially save me 200 thousand usd. 

I originally plan to buy wilson alexx (or similar big speakers) and put it in the lobby(forgive me english is not my first language so if this”lobby” word triggers any bad emotion response in your human nature, I apologize for that) , however the kii threes are so good that if could fit large rooms I would rather save the money for something else.

Maybe try them with the BXT module. That's designed to increase output in the bass region. 

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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4 minutes ago, firedog said:

I don't think he is a troll. He has a very specific use in mind, an to my understanding he misunderstands the specs of the Kii and thinks they don't meet spec in his usage scenario. 
Again if he wants to run the Kiis so they are  engaging the limiter on an almost continual basis, I can't imagine that being a long term usage scenario. But instead of asking us, he should be asking Kii. Email usually works. You can call the number on the web site and talk to one of the company principals. It's a very small company. 

Thanks OP.

Yes I would email kii tonight.

Still curious why nobody mentions overload at 80 around volume, I tried 3 different sets if kii threes(including mine) and all Would more or less flash red above 77 volume with dynamic music.

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6 minutes ago, firedog said:

Maybe try them with the BXT module. That's designed to increase output in the bass region. 

Yes I am more than interested in BXT however there is no BXT locally. Dealer told me at least half a year later.

If bxt increase kii three headroom by say 10dB then I would definitely buy BXT instead of wilsons.

 

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6 minutes ago, dustblue said:

Thanks OP.

Yes I would email kii tonight.

Still curious why nobody mentions overload at 80 around volume, I tried 3 different sets if kii threes(including mine) and all Would more or less flash red above 77 volume with dynamic music.

Because no one else is playing back the Kiis in your scenario. I've had them at home for a year and a half and have had the volume occasionally turned all the way up, and never saw the red light from the limiter. I rarely listen to music like your test tracks, but even if I do I'd never listen at those volumes. I want to preserve the hearing I have left, and believe me tinnitus is not something you want to experience. I had it temporarily once, and it's basically a game ender for an audiophile - not to mention it just plain horrible in general. 

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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7 minutes ago, dustblue said:

Yes I am more than interested in BXT however there is no BXT locally. Dealer told me at least half a year later.

If bxt increase kii three headroom by say 10dB then I would definitely buy BXT instead of wilsons.

 

AFAIK they haven't published the BXT Specs yet,  but I think I saw mentioned somewhere that's exactly what the BXT does. Again, ask Kii, I'm sure they'd tell you, especially if you tell them that would make you buy them over Wilsons.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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1 hour ago, firedog said:

Because no one else is playing back the Kiis in your scenario. I've had them at home for a year and a half and have had the volume occasionally turned all the way up, and never saw the red light from the limiter. I rarely listen to music like your test tracks, but even if I do I'd never listen at those volumes. I want to preserve the hearing I have left, and believe me tinnitus is not something you want to experience. I had it temporarily once, and it's basically a game ender for an audiophile - not to mention it just plain horrible in general. 

May I ask when you turned it all the way up, did you attenuated it in the preamp?(no full volume in the preamp/computer interface/dac or whatever processors before Kii threes)

Thanks. 

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I have the kii's for all most two years now and never had a red light from the limiter.

When my kii is on there is no light so a blicking red light should have been seen. 

Kii Three / Kii Control / Lush 3 Uptone Iso Regen-Farad super 3 / OpticalRendu Farad super 3 / Etherregen / Roon Rock-Farad super 3

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5 hours ago, Craig1512 said:

 

Thanks @atletico I wonder if there is an RCA to XLR adapter, hmmm will need to have a search if this exists. I purchased the AQ XLR cables specifically for connecting a phono stage to the Kii Three.

I used this cable from Mogami to power my center channel speaker from receiver to mono amp.

 

http://www.mogamicable.com/category/products/gold-XLRM-RCA_6_12.php

Computer setup - Roon/Qobuz - PS Audio P5 Regenerator - HIFI Rose 250A Streamer - Emotiva XPA-2 Harbeth P3ESR XD - Rel  R-528 Sub

Comfy Chair - Schitt Jotunheim - Meze Audio Empyrean w/Mitch Barnett's Accurate Sound FilterSet

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enter->advanced setting->limiter indicator->yes

Ok will check this. 

Was also at demo's in big rooms. Never notice problems with a limiter.

Kii Three / Kii Control / Lush 3 Uptone Iso Regen-Farad super 3 / OpticalRendu Farad super 3 / Etherregen / Roon Rock-Farad super 3

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I have my CA profile set to email me posts to this thread and since the OP by @BlueDog on this subject, my inbox has had the 'benefit' of over 70 emails in the last 36 hours which must be a record! 

 

I am all for lively debates but as far as I can tell this particular discussion is just going around in circles, because the crux of the responses are always the same [putting exchanges of insults to one side]:

 

1. Playing the Kii's flat out is not recommended

2. Getting the 'red light' to come on only happens at very high SPL's 

3. Nobody treats them this way, so the only people who can answer the OP are Kii

4. The limiter works to protect the speakers but if one wants to know how, then speak with Kii

5. If one wants to damage their hearing then, yes, that can be done with the Kii's

 

And despite this, the OP still keeps asking the same questions.

 

I am going to disable the email notifications for this thread until this debate moves on........

 

Aurender W20 Music Server, Kii Three Active Speakers, Kii Digital Controller

Audioquest Diamond USB, Audioquest Niagara 7000 conditioner, Audioquest NRG-1000 HC mains leads

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Guys most of you have been very helpful but if you have used Kii threes for a long time and never seen it flash red, please change the setting with kii control:

enter->advanced setting->limiter indicator->yes

This setting is default off.(meaning it wont tell you when limiter kicks in)

 

And I know it's very unintuitive to control volume in the speaker level because in most passive hifi setup the amp-speaker combination could not adjust volume(meaning always FULL volume), but to speak the same language, you have to only adjust volume by kii control(meaning put your preamp volume to FULL output). That's the only way for your kii threes is actually working in with the same condition with mine.( and better set all the boundary and eq to flat)

 

In this way if your kii control is more than 77 volume I bet you would encounter the overload sooner or later, unless you only listen to very mild music.To see the overload flash you could play some tracks from Yello on tidal. 

 

Well if you don't give a sh*t please simply ignore my reply.

 

I feel really frustrated because the overload is so easy to see and I see it on 3 different sets of Kii threes with all the same results(with 2 different experienced dealers by my side and found no mistakes at all) yet none of you report the same.

 

 

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