Kii Three - my impressions and pro reviews

[Mazza]

On 15/02/2018 at 11:07 AM, PleasantSounds said:

 

I have started with AES connection through Lynx Hilo (PC->USB->Hilo->AES->Kii3) before I had the Control. Now my chain is PC->USB->Hilo->Coax->Control. Honestly if there is any difference, I'm sure I would fail to detect it in a blind test. Hilo is great for low latency and rock solid stability: never misses a bit, even when I run video rendering or disk defrag on the PC.

To me the direct USB connection (PC->USB->Control) makes no difference in terms of sound quality either, but I get an occasional dropout when the PC is really busy.

 

 

I have been using my kii’s with Auralic Aries Femto connected by USB to Kii controller for about 3 months.

 

After getting incredibly frustrated with the Aries’s Lightning App for controlling, I have decided to change. That’s not the only reason, but it has driven me to upgrade earlier than I might have done.  After a couple of trials with dCS Network Bridge and various Melco and Aurender models, I have settled on an Aurender. The Conductor app (that’s all you can use with the Aurender) is a halfway house between Roon (which I find far too busy) and the relatively simple Lightening app (which is too unstable). BTW, the Melco’s, Aurender’s and the dCS are quite a step-up in sound quality over the Aries.

 

Anyway, to the point of my post. Because the Aurender has usb, spdif and aes/eub outputs I dropped a note to Kii asking if they have found a preferred input for sound quality when they did alll their design and testing.. the response was basically “no”. I won’t go into the full reasons but it is to do with the way the Kii’s process the signal.

 

This tallies with your findings.

 

I get my Aurender delivered next week, so I’ll probably have a play for myself to see but the advice from Kii was to keep it simple and keep to usb. That’s where I’ll start.

 

hope this helps

[Mazza]

Hello All

 

my Aurender is now hooked up to the Kii's .... what a combo! kicks all my previous kit into touch

 

using the usb as connection ..... will leave a few days to settle and register the SQ .... then I'll try out the spdif

 

 

[Mazza]

On 11/02/2018 at 10:37 PM, Evo-No-Revo said:

I purchased a set of Kii Three last month.  I actually got the demos from Bill Parish that Kal used in his demo.  I really love the simplicity of these speakers and the SQ is satisfying on many levels.

 

I am looking at different options for digital front end.  I might end up with a Antipodes DX Gen 3.  But for the moment I need to optimize my Mac Mini to the Kii.  I am using the Mac Mini for audio/video output.

 

The sticking point I have right now is that I really like having the Kii Control next to my sitting area.  It reminds me of one of my favorite parts of owning a Devialet 250 was that huge metal chunk of a remote.  What I like it mostly for is when I watch movies at night, the kid's room is pretty close and I can have a finger on the dial and react to the volume swings in movie playback quickly.  I literally watch with my hand on the remote often.  A tablet is just too cumbersome for quick volume control.

 

I am looking at options to optimize the AES and USB inputs to the Kii.  What is of interest is SOtM or Mutec for USB optimization but for the AES as well.  I could use the AES output of the Mutec MC-3+ or add the SOtM tx-USB Ultra and then connect the dx-USB HD for AES output.  Both options have capability for clocking. 

 

The Antipodes DX Gen3 is only USB output.  The DX Gen2 has both USB and AES outputs.

 

What are you guys using for a remote.  I see that you can use an Apple remote.  Is that Apple's inexpensive little silver sliver of a remote?    I had one for my Lampizator Golden Gate DAC and really didn't care for it. 

 

Does anyone know if Kii is looking into other options instead of having cable running across the room? 

 

 

hello fellow Kii owner!

 

i dropped a thread on the usb vs aes etc question, you might want to have a look

 

cheers

[Mazza]

errrrrrr .... about 2 posts earlier!

[Mazza]

I use an Aurender front end, which has no volume control. So to control the music selection, volume and contour presets, I currently juggle a combination of iPad, remote control and get-up-and-walk. Not massively inconvenient but a decent Kii App that will use the bluetooth to interface to the controller for remote volume control and selection of contour presets would be nice.

 

in an age when there seems to be an app for everything it is a bit odd that it is taking so long to provide one for the Kii, even if there will ever be one.

[Mazza]

Apple’s small silver remote works first time .... pretty cheap on Amazon

[Mazza]

Has this been asked before? But is there any point whatsoever of using an external dac with the Kii’s?

 

from day one I have just fed them direct from my digital source but I am curious what an external dac might do to the sound sig ... I have no compunction to change but I am curious nonetheless

[Mazza]

On 17/04/2018 at 2:10 PM, zachchen1996 said:

 

Thanks for the input guys, guess I'll look into upgrading the power cables first, then USB and Ethernet cables later on.

 

Anyone have any experience with Neotech cables? I'm currently looking at their "The Amazon-P Power Cord", extremely expensive unfortunately.

 

Had Neotech with my previous setup but didn’t seem to have same synergy with the Kii’s. I have changed to the Vertex Q system..mains block, power leads etc which have passive filtration: very pleased with results. Much lower noise floor

[Mazza]

14 hours ago, input username here said:

As others have noted, there will be a (mac and PC) software update utility being released shortly

 

That will be a good option, it does seem a bit of a contradiction that the Kii Control allows so many parameters to be adjusted and yet in many ways those could be even more programable. As you say, such a MAC/PC utility would allow Kii to react to requests for features and to upgrade firmware to maximise the potential of the DACS etc.

 

Great move Kii !!

 

14 hours ago, input username here said:

The utility should be available shortly after the Munich High-End show (only about two weeks away--yea!).

 

I wonder if they will announce any new products? Eg. Subs have been talked about in the past

[Mazza]

3 hours ago, zachchen1996 said:

Regarding power cables, does anyone know if the furutech FI-50 NCF(R) connector will fit or will only the slimmer FI-C15 NCF connector fit? Thanks!

 

Only the slimmer plug will fit

[Mazza]

@dustblue ... i have **NEVER** had the red light/cut out .... typically play at 80-85 mark on the Kii Controller [I haven't measured the average dBA level] ... not that bass heavy music just the typical rock/blues/big orchestra stuff

 

What did the dealer make of it? Doesn't sound right to me from my experience with the Kii

[Mazza]

2 hours ago, dustblue said:

Are you sure you allowed the limiter to flash red when it works? There is an option to turn the indicator off I think.

If you could do me a favor, please search on Tidal for <drum solo> by Gojira, and play it through Kii, see what volume it would overload. Thanks!

 

Ok tried that ... overload light enabled.

 

Ran the track on a continuous loop for 4-5 mins at 85 on the controller to warm up. Then gradually increased volume in steps of 2 until I saw the red light flicker, which it did intermittently at 98 on the dial. At this level in my room it is unbearable volume. I have the bass contour set at -4 dB. I increased to +6 dB ( as suggested by @firedog) to see what happens and then the light flickers at 96 on the controller instead of 98. After 5-10 mins of this, the speakers are very hot. 

 

Hope me this helps. 

[Mazza]

@Kal Rubinson nope, limiter didn’t cut in but the flickering was very intermittent. Ears bleed first

[Mazza]

1 hour ago, dustblue said:

I simply want to know the Kii threes' limit. If you put the threes in a small room you would never encounter this kind of problem.

But put it in a 7m*9m*6m room would be very, very different, which is I am planning to do and honestly I don't think it would be a good idea considering the overload reality of the threes.

 

@dustblue Forgive me but I am starting to miss the point of your thread. 

 

You now have the Kii's, you are going to put them in this room and either they will work for you or not. If they don't, you have said you will put them in a smaller room. So what is the concern or what is it exactly you want help or advice on?? Or are you just trying to score points on whose maths is correct?

[Mazza]

6 minutes ago, dustblue said:

I would love to see someone who really knows kii tell us the overload doesn’t mean shit and we are free to use it at 100volume without fearing to burn the speaker. 

That way I can put the threes in my lobby, not a pair of expensive wilsons.

 

Nope. Still don't get it.

 

Rather than theorise, why not just put them in your lobby or wherever, play them at whatever insane levels you want to, for as long as you want to [you have already been advised that the limiter will prevent damage to them] and see if it's loud enough for you? That way, you can assess SQ, measure whatever SP levels that you want to etc and if your are in doubt that your particular Kii's don't meet spec, you can raise the issue directly with Kii. 

 

You may have picked up that none of the respondents have an inkling to play their Kii's at the Controller volume of 100 for any lengthy duration, so if your issue is questioning the durability of the Kii's or how the limiter works when treated this way, you really need to speak with Kii. I think I can guesstimate their response.

[Mazza]

I have my CA profile set to email me posts to this thread and since the OP by @BlueDog on this subject, my inbox has had the 'benefit' of over 70 emails in the last 36 hours which must be a record! 

 

I am all for lively debates but as far as I can tell this particular discussion is just going around in circles, because the crux of the responses are always the same [putting exchanges of insults to one side]:

 

1. Playing the Kii's flat out is not recommended

2. Getting the 'red light' to come on only happens at very high SPL's 

3. Nobody treats them this way, so the only people who can answer the OP are Kii

4. The limiter works to protect the speakers but if one wants to know how, then speak with Kii

5. If one wants to damage their hearing then, yes, that can be done with the Kii's

 

And despite this, the OP still keeps asking the same questions.

 

I am going to disable the email notifications for this thread until this debate moves on........

 

[Mazza]

1 hour ago, dustblue said:

I am actually not interested in this forum anymore. Many members here don't count on facts and protect their little world very aggressively.

 

I am not even able to tell is it true or not that when you say you never see the limiter kick in even above 95,  which is simply impossible. The credibility is just low on some of you guys.

 

I would stop wasting my time here and wish you a happy life.

 

Thing is @dustblue you appear to have a very closed mind and just because the facts that are reported to you by other contributors or their opinions don’t match yours, you always seem to start to adopt an aggressive stance which does nothing but wind people up when all they are trying to do is to try to help you with your questions. 

 

I for one responded to your initial question about what level the limiter kicks in and that is a fact on my system and my speakers. And your response above? .... “simply impossible”. It’s not impossible, it’s what I found and I guess the other contributors found the same. Why do otherwise?

 

These forums work by cooperation and mutual respect, it’s a shame you feel the need to throw a tantrum and metaphorically stomp off.

 

Good luck. 

 

[Mazza]

I have had some experiments with mains products which included the Kii's. Rather than pollute this this thread, you can see my post on this at:

 

 

[Mazza]

@asiano : The Kii's stands are good but they are nothing that special and there are literally dozens out there of similar or better quality at lower price. I have a pair of Custom Speaker stands [that is the name of the UK manufacturer] and paid about half-the price of the Kii stands. They have various in their range at all price points.... Mine happen to have the right size top plate, but they will make a custom sized plate for you if the stands you like don't have the right size as standard. 

 

+1 with the other posts about filling with sand or better still, the dedicated inert materials used for such a purpose.

[Mazza]

I swapped out the stock Ethernet cables with some none descript but good quality Cat 7, no perceived improvement but they look much nicer!. Recently tried Audioquest Vodka and they had absolutely no difference.

 

Much more mileage was had by swapping the usb cable to the remote, very very different. As always YMMV so ensure any cables tried can be on loan first.

[Mazza]

2 hours ago, Gastronaut said:

Few days ago I had a chance to try/test https://www.kempelektroniksshop.nl/blue-horizon-mains-noise-analyzer.html.

Well, the result was disappointing. Very "dirty" power, but I knew that more or less. So, the question is what you use to "clean" your AC power, and what is suitable for the Kii's? I have tried Audience Power Conditioner once and the change was positive, but not sure is the amount of change worth that amount of money. 

 

The Kii’s have *lots* of SMPS’s in them. I often wonder how much they are responsible for generating noise on the mains?

 

 Did you do any measurements within them active and not active by any chance?

[Mazza]

9 minutes ago, firedog said:

Why? Just because common audiophile wisdom says SMPS are noisy doesn’t mean it’s necessarily  true. There is zero problem with the technology. The problem is only with inexpensive, not particularly well made ones. No reason to assume the PS’s are particularly noisy or that some other type of PS would necessarily be quieter. 

 

9 minutes ago, firedog said:

Why? Just because common audiophile wisdom says SMPS are noisy  .....,,

 

@firedog.....which is why I asked the question if there were any with and without measurements. 

[Mazza]

48 minutes ago, baconbrain said:

 

 

My experience has been very similar to fpalm69's. Active filtering seems to negatively impact the dynamics, while straight out of the socket does make them susceptible to noise. The best overall result for me has been passive filtering given that I also have a "dirty" LED ceiling lamp in my listening room.

 

I have moved to Audioquest products that combine active and passive filtering/noise reduction. Prior to that I had a full VertexAQ, all passive, filtering system. The VertexAQ system was good [really good] at filtering out some of the mains crap, but not all. Crank up the volume really high, with no music playing, and you could hear it; hiss, crackles, pops 

 

The Audioquest does the filtering of the noise better, crank up the volume and the background is inky-black silent. Because of its big toroidal transformers and capacitive storage, the AQ also helps with voltage dips and power swings from the amps in the Kii's.

 

All-in all, the AQ has made an immediate, noticeable improvement over the VertexAQ's, which are no shabby product in themselves. Dynamics are definitely not affected by the AQ system; the opposite is the truth TBH possibly, in-part, because it can even out voltage swings and current peak demands.

 

YMMV!

[Mazza]

@bobfa

 

No problem .....  yes, I changed everything [mostly for 'synergy' but partly for the reasons I give below]

 

I now use Audioquest Niagara 7000 "conditioner" [I managed to get one ex-demo for not much more cost than their 5000] with NRG-1000-HC mains lead to the conditioner and normal current NRG-10's to the speakers and to my music server. The mains leads have since been discontinued & replaced by their Storm range but I won't be changing to them anytime soon. My wallet is still too bruised and battered!

 

Before that I was using the VertexAQ Hi-Rez Raga Distribution block, fed by their Roraima Silver Plus HC mains lead. The speakers and music server were fed from the distribution block with Roraima Silver Plus mains leads [not the HC version]. I tried their Anoto filter [DC blocker], on loan,  but it didn't make any difference to the noise. That's when I looked at the AQ system

 

So a complete change to the system. Interestingly, I briefly tried using one of the Roraima's to connect the AQ Niagara to my music server, but it induced some very low level buzzing *at* the AQ Niagara which is supposed to be an indication of some DC-offset being present. The AQ will deal with such but when I removed the Roraima and used a conventional chord it disappeared. I wondered if there was an incompatibility between the filters used in the VertexAQ and the Niagara. Whatever, there was no perceptible difference in SQ. I have since completed the set-up with AQ's NRG cables throughout, though the change to an NRG-10 for the music server made only a barely perceptible difference.

 

Hope this helps.

[Mazza]

14 hours ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

Many enthusiasts we know would agree with this, yes. 

 

It seems to me that just as many would disagree too.....it seems that the commonly reported  reason is usually around the ability of the active filter [which is usually a transformer driven power supply with various other gubbins] to respond to the voltage and current swings for the  amplifier/speaker demands. If they can't cope then compressed dynamics is the probable outcome.

 

So mixed results dependant upon the kit. Hence, YMMV! It's always worth a loaner and try-out if you think you may have benefits from such a route.