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Kii Three - my impressions and pro reviews


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It is very interesting to see the different methods of connection.  This will take some planning.  Thank you all for the replies.  

 

My current turntable is a VPI traveler with a Soundsmith Carmen cartridge.  I just have a Schiit Phono stage into my AYRE AX-5 Twenty for now.   I was looking at the Sound Design Phono stage that has balanced out to do direct to the Threes.   I am sad that PS Audio has discontinued their Phono stage with ADC 

 

It might be nice to have some sort of passive input switch in there then I could see if I really need to keep the YGGY!

 

My primary digital source will be my NUC endpoint running either Roon or Sqeezelite.  .

 

It will be about 4 weeks till this can happen so I still have some time to develop a plan.

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5 hours ago, fpalm69 said:

You can run the NUC straight into the Kii Three Control but a good streamer will sound better.

Love my Kiis and yes you can tweak them with power cables, Ethernet cables, various front end configurations, different power supply options and they will all sound different since the Kii Three is so revealing of the source.

I have a streaming system that i will move over to the Threes if this happens.  What I do not have is a way to play LPs.

 

 

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  • 1 month later...
3 hours ago, Mazza said:

All-in all, the AQ has made an immediate, noticeable improvement over the VertexAQ's, which are no shabby product in themselves. Dynamics are definitely not affected by the AQ system; the opposite is the truth TBH possibly, in-part, because it can even out voltage swings and current peak demands.

 

Mazza,

 

Can you tell us which AQ filter you are using and did you change any power cables?

 

bob

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4 hours ago, phosphorein said:

I’m using a Vertiv PSI5-1500 for each Kii. This provides true sine wave power as well as filtered output for anomalous power events. I do not hear any deterioration in the sound and no humming at high volume with no input.

 

Interesting idea.  I am a bit confused though.  The Veritiv is not an online UPS so the sine-wave inverter is only running when on battery.  IF I am reading the documentation properly.  Have you tried running the system with and without AC mains connected?    

 

https://www.vertiv.com/globalassets/products/critical-power/uninterruptible-power-supplies-ups/liebert-psi5-ups-data-sheet-sl-23321.pdf

 

See this as a reference:

 

https://www.backupbatterypower.com/collections/online-double-conversion

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
4 hours ago, atletico said:

The placement according to the back wall and side walls  will influence the overall presentation from the Kii Three's. This is my experience after listening to these superb speakers in my living room for two years now. 

Yes,  the DSP settings can do much especiallyfor the lower frequency beneath 50-60 Hz but I find the overall sound performance are even better with more air around the speakers. 

@bobfa I will recommend testing this beautiful Kii There/BXT setup with some different placement, especially from the back wall and also the toe-in towards your listening position.

Congratulation with a superb setup! 

I am working this very slowly.  I have the toe-in set to the listening position.  So far the really do what I expect of them.  There has not been enough listening time to really evaluate things. 

 

The idea will be to bring them together and out in one step.  So in the picture I would swap the speakers so they are closer to the old console and the chair and the plant are on the outside and pull them out so there is say 12-16 inches behind them and the wall.  

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2 hours ago, baconbrain said:

 

Owned the Musical Fidelity for about a year and then swapped it out for a Gold Note PH-10. IMO a more appealing sound signature at about the same price point. Something perhaps worth giving a try if you are still looking?

I will check that one out down the line.  It looks like it is around $1500 and $1100 for the PS.  I have to see if my LP listening is enough to start down that path.   Thankss

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18 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

can the DSP fully correct for shoving them back into the corners?

I have just about finished dialing them in today and I can say an unequivocal yes.

 

IMG_1610.thumb.jpeg.c3654df9ab21a4c29e2f499ac19397df.jpeg 

I have been slowly going from -6 down.  At -10 things just jumped out.  I am now at -11 on both speakers.  

 

Listening to these two albums to "verify"

 

Blade_Runner_2049_poster.png.4e71ef53abe6aef03aebb3c7b87477d7.pngSoundtrack of Blade Runner 2049 and

 

BT_-_Untitled.jpg.2d748a5f867126d5e2188caf513efb37.jpgBT's  Untitled Album

 

 

 

The inside corners of the speakers are 4.5 in from the rear wall and toe in puts the other side 7in.  They are 11in from the sidewalls.

IMG_1674.thumb.jpeg.ba0188fa293217e106456dadc9cf9b1c.jpeg

 

 

With some more listening there may be some more tweaks.  For now call me Mr. -11.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, firedog said:

When you have time, I’d be interested in your impression with and without the BXT engaged: Does the BXT just add more bass, or does the combination somehow sound better/different in other ways?

I have a friend coming over tomorrow we will do some more of that.  I want to be careful not to understate or overstate the case on the BXT.  I will say that you cannot un-hear them!  

 

It is emotionally hard to turn them off😓.  I want some of my other listeners to help me with my comments.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, tomjtx said:

I currently use a Ray Samuells battery phono preamp. It replaced my tube Sonic Frontiers. I run it through my old Jeff Rowland preamp to the Kii 3s.

 

Digital is an UltraRendu with an Uptone 1.2 as power. 

 

 

 

I tend to keep good equipment a long time. My Watt/Puppys are now my home theatre speakers.

 

The wallmount TT stand is a vinyl and stylus saver. I have an old Tudor home with pier and beam and there is some give to the floor. No needle skipping with the wallmount.

Thanks!   I love how simple we can make things.  I kept my Thiel 3.5 speakers and Bryston 3B for a very very long time.  Then I went digital crazy....  Oh well.

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10 hours ago, Craig1512 said:

Since my last post here, I have spent the past couple of weeks tweeting speaker position, boundary & EQ settings. I agree with @firedog it would be useful if Kii provided more detailed information and instructions on setup for new users. I did try moving the speakers out into the room more to about 60cm, but found SQ was better with them back in the original position of about 20cm from the front wall. Every thing I have read about cardioid dispersion suggests that 20cm from the front wall is ideally the best position. I dont have a dedicated listening position, my setup is in the main open plan family, dinning, kitchen room, its where my family like to gather, chat and listen to music, I usually sit at the dinning table which is around 4.5m from the speakers as I am now, listening to music. For moderate volume listening, for the time being, I have settled with the speakers 20cm from front wall and 2.3m apart, boundary set to 0, low shelf corner 104394, low shelf amount 4.8, high shelf corner 3002.6 and high shelf amount 1.1. I would like to do some further tweaking to see if I can get some improvement and would be helpful if others here could give their speaker positioning, boundary and EQ settings as a guide. Appreciate the great advice and information here, assists with getting the best out these speakers. Thought I would add to the photo gallery here. @bobfa the time lapse vids and photos were great, love the repurposed RCA Victola console, its a beautiful piece of furniture and a cool idea to use a “hifi rack”. I would be interested in reading about your discussion with Chris R at AXPONA, did he happen to mention any future plans, updates in the pipeline at Kii Audio?

2396DEF8-1F28-4BD7-966F-23239A70DB3E.jpeg

From looking at your picture I would want to play with boundary in a different way.  I would "try" this.  Set the contour to flat.  Then play with the boundary.  I would do a binary tree 0-8-4 sort of thing. When I was testing in my room the difference was striking when I got to the setting sweet spot.  The room looks like it might be a little brighter sonically.  

 

I am still looking at tracks that help me setup.  I found one that is helpful.  The theme to Bladerunner 2049.

 

By the way your setup is really nice looking!

 

OH and no forward looking info from Kii at Axpona..

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  • 4 weeks later...
27 minutes ago, Saburo said:

Does anyone have the sampling rate of the Kii's ADC when using the XLR inputs with analog sources? Its not stated in the manual and I can't find that spec anywhere.

 

Also, for those using phono stages straight into the Kii's XLR analog input, do you find the gain sufficient to reach a satisfying volume? Others are routing them through a separate line stage (per manual). I guess my questions is do the Kii's ADC have sufficient 'digital' gain (volume control range) to make up the lack of a line stage?

I am using a normal phono stage with no issues,  a Musical Fidelity MX-VYNL  I wonder if that manual has some translation error.   I have to go re-read it.  I will ask the US distributor.

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  • 4 weeks later...
32 minutes ago, Cazzesman said:

I also use a 2000 VA Isolation Transformer in my Audio system.     My Current Active speakers, each with its own separate power supply box, are plugged into the walls 240vlt plugs and not via the IsoTrans.  This was at the recommendation of the Speaker Maker .

 

Anyone have any thoughts on whether I should plug the Kii 3's into the IsoTran or simply into the wall plugs.     I presuming the Digital Amps within the Kii 3's aren't drawing any massive loads so the IsoTran should be fine.     For info the power to my audio set up comes via a direct single line off the house power box. 

 

Regards Cazzesman

I would at least try to have them go through some power line protection system..  I have mine hooked up through a Transparent Cable P6 for just basic filtering.  I think they are pretty frugal on power but all those amps can draw some power when working!  You will enjoy them a lot!

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51 minutes ago, Cazzesman said:

With my current room I have 1st and 2nd reflection acoustic treatment set up.   I also have rear corner bass traps that stand 2.2 metres.

 

I will try with and without treatment once the Kii's are in situ.    Have you current Kii owners found that you could do away with the Treatment (if you had any) once you moved from standard speakers to the Kii's?

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

 

I would remove the room treatments if possible. Setup and Tune the Kii Threes, then make any decisions.  Do not rush it.  It took me a couple of weeks to get them tuned where I felt that they sound the best. 

 

I did not have treatments in my room and now I do not feel the need for any.  Which is one of the reasons I got the speakers in the first place!  

 

 

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On 7/4/2019 at 4:31 PM, Bernstein said:

 

Partly yes. Coming from a CD Player type of setup I needed to buy 

 

- Roon server

- LPS for Roon server and switch 

- „good“ Ethernet cables

- Roon Endpoint

- LPS for Roon Endpoint 

- DC cables 

 

Just trying to cry 😎

 

Do anybody can distinguish the stock cable with „better“ one. This is the only thing I don’t want to upgrade. 

So, try this.

Signature Rendu SE has its own LPS!  And does some other interesting software tricks.  MPD, LMS, etc.....

Ghent JSSG360 USB cable (Seems good to me!)

Optical networking from the Rendu.  (I am using Ubiquity on my whole network and they have optical built into my switch)

556790CC-70EF-47A7-B8D7-8673EED32CE4.thumb.jpeg.79201d90452dc1732a1cdee5bb1c353f.jpeg

 

If you need a Roon Server there are a LOT of options that let you scale up.  

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1 hour ago, Cazzesman said:

Morning all,

 

I'm just after some clarification re the Boundary/Contour adjustments if you could please.   Without the Controller the adjustments for both are via the adjustable screws on the rear of the unit.   With the Controller the adjustments for both are within.   You have the Low shelf and High shelf adjustments with both having frequencies adjustment +/- db.

 

My question is..................... after your selection are made you only have 2 different frequencies you can adjust overall i.e High and Low.   Is that correct or am I missing something.   It's not like a Graphic EQ where you may have 6 or 8 points you can plot and adjust?

 

Also a question re 'Head-room'.    Currently my Kii's are placed 1 metre from the front of the speaker to the wall behind.  They are .5 metres off each side wall with a toe in of 50mil from parallel (Degrees?)    Reading some info on the Kii's it was suggested that "When pushed further into a corner it provides the Kii's with more headroom, meaning they don't have to work as hard to produce the bass energy".  I get that the corners increases the bass, but is that only from an spl perspective or also a lower htz output? i.e from 15 down to 12 at the same spl.   

 

I intend on doing some placement testing but I just want to get my head around the science first.

 

I currently still have 1st and 2nd refection points covered with treatment.  I still have the treatment traps in the corners to the rear of the speakers.     My room shape is basically 3 mts x 3 mts that then comes into 6 x 4.   So the speakers are firing from the 3 metre end the length of 9 metres with 3.2 mt ceilings.   Tweeter to tweeter is 1.64 metres.

 

Aside from..............just suck it and see......................any science to the trying that I need to know please.

 

Regards Cazzesman

The tone control system on the Kii Three is called a Baxandall system that is implemented in the DSP.

 

http://makearadio.com/tech/tone.htm

 

 

I would highly suggest that you do not adjust the tonal curves until you have the position and boundary settings where you want them.  I cannot comment on your room or your existing room controls.  I would still suggest that you consider removing everything and start over with the Kii Three and the room with the normal furniture. Floor coverings, etc..  You may end up in the same place but you will never know if you need those treatment levels.  This speaker system is not like anything else out there.

 

If my example helps here we go: My room is about 12 x 20 feet with large openings to the left of the speakers and at the far end.  I have my speakers set about 5 in from the front wall and about 12 in from the side walls.  I am happy with a setting of -11 on both speakers.  I only have had them in the room for a few months and had about five experienced listeners over.  At this point I am considering moving them out just a little bit to see what happens.  I would say less that 1 foot from the front wall.  This is an experiment to see what the effect on soundstage is.  NOTE that this is my family living room and the POINT is to creat a shared listening space.  I have some instagram posts showing the system.

 

Before we get to the science remember that your “ear” is adapted to your old system.  It takes a while to unlearn that sound.

 

The science here is the K.I.S.S. method.  

Setup the system so it LOOKS good to others.  Do not pull the speakers out into the room, that kind of stuff. Get all the extra stuff out of the room.  Do not change more than one thing at a time! Take notes.  If you are moving speakers.  Put tape measures down next to each one and move them 1/2in at at time.  I do not think that at this stage Toe-in is as important as distance from that wall and the settings on the speakers.  Think about that cardioid  pattern out of the  of the speaker. You need some music with low end bass that you understand how you think it should sound.  Use that for reference.  Kii suggests kick drum. Then mix up a combination of music to keep the boredom down and expose the nuances from other music.  

 

Here are some ideas:

 

The Telarc Copland Fanfare for the Common Man.  

BT (untitled). Artifacture

Blade Runner 2049 intro track

Dominique Fils-aime Nameless the track Birds

Trentemoller   The Last Resort the track Evil Dub

 

Try the Roger Waters track “The Legend of Bill Hubbard” for some interesting staging effects.  I am pretty sure they used QSOUND on that one and it is fun.

 

Try some Lisa Lynne harp and flute music. I do not know what you normally listen to but make sure to add some more complex music into the mix.  Get some other listeners in there with you.  

 

I am still working on my digital front end for the Kii Threes and have recently made some changes that are significant.  This may show my position and settings need adjustment. I will discuss that on a separate thread when the time is right and the changes are settled down.  

 

Bob

 

PS Sorry to use US measurements.  We are so far behind. 

 

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