Roon Vs jriver

[astropuppy]

3 hours ago, koupa said:

As I wrote before I don't like the attitude in their forums. If they listened us I would be much happier. 

 

I couldn't agree more and have come to accept two things about JRiver: One, their going to do it "their way" period, Two, if I need to do something,JRiver will do it. Hence I continue to upgrade - pay - for it.

 

This year they offered a super duper good deal, upgrade to 22 with future 23 included for $10. Makes me wonder how they are doing as a business concern. $10 is an outrageously low price for everything it does. All the new server/player solutions on the market has got to be putting pressure on JRiver sales. 

 

 

 

[ted_b]

10 hours ago, mourip said:

 

I think that you mean olive branch?

 

The fig leaf is for covering....

 

Thanks for all of the JRiver tips you have left over the years. Much appreciated!

 

LOL.  Yes, of course...my bad.     Thanks.

 

Koupa,  you forgot to add (Multiple Artists) to Album/Artist(Auto) to tell JRiver it was a compilation.  You'd then only get one cover in your album view.

[koupa]

And Roon is not 100% perfect. Sometimes it does not recognize famous albums without any obvious reason. Even when I match the tags from discogs dB it fails. I have to manually search and match it. On the other side it has excellent filters so I can match only unrecognizable albums so I can see what's missing. 

 

Second it is a database and not a conventional player. So it lacks a file manager. I have three different hard drives with music. I can only filter the root drive and not a subfolder. So if I want to manage my Beatles collection I can't. I cannot choose D:/The Beatles folder. 

 

And the third and most important is the lack of Greek Music. It doesn't have a proper Greek database. So my music is in greeklish an without proper tagging and relations. And I have hundreds of disks in Greek and they are displayed in greeklish. So I can't search them properly because we have different alphabet than Latin based languages. 

[Johnseye]

I've used JRiver for years and paid the full monty for Roon last year.  Now I use both for different functions.  Obviously Roon doesn't handle video which JRiver does, so if you're into video there's that.  What I also use JRiver for is mass updating of metadata.  It is infinitely easier than Roon.  I can select every song in my library and update any piece of metadata on all of them at once, or any other selection of songs for that matter.  Roon doesn't even come close to being that flexible.

 

I've had a significant problem with Roon's Android tablet app.  I don't experience this behavior on the Android phone app, only tablet.  There's a big difference between a 3" and 10" screen.  I listen to a lot of live music and some bands like the Dead, Panic and Phish have over 1000 shows.  Roon's Android app can not browse through those albums, or shows, smoothly.  In fact it can take over a minute to move one scroll through.  I've repeated the behavior on multiple tablets.  I've posted the issue to the Roon forums with no response from the dev team there.  The app also has some graphical glitches on the edges.  One other thing I don't like about the Roon app is that it doesn't auto rotate.  If I want to look at it in portrait mode I need to install a 3rd party app.

 

What do I like about Roon and why do I use it?  I like how it pulls in band information from the Internet.  I like it's appearance.  I like that I can use it with an endpoint.  And I like that I can see technical detail about the music, I can see when it clips and if I need to adjust for that and I like that I can simply use DSP functions.  It's a simple app and sometimes that has benefits.

[jimm2]

2 hours ago, astropuppy said:

All the new server/player solutions on the market has got to be putting pressure on JRiver sales. 

 

 

 

 

Agree. Funny thing is I would have gladly paid more for JRiver if they just refreshed some of their core UI functionality and didn't use such draconian tactics on their support forum. The latter really drove me to not want to buy their product anymore. 

[steveoat]

I just recently ended my subscription to Roon and went back to JRiver.

 

I didn't feel Roon gave me a "rich metadata experience" -- I felt I was largely reading AMG summary reviews.  Since my interests lie primarily in Classical, I was not happy with how Roon handled classical, especially box sets, which they didn't have the data for a significant number. 

 

Since I am also a collector in addition to being a music lover, I enjoy doing my own tagging, including choosing album covers.  Roon's treatment of box set cover art is poor, since you can't assign a separate cover to each album in the set.  I use musichi for classical tagging and am able to import custom tags into JRiver.

 

I too wish JRiver wasn't so authoritarian on their support forum, and allowed users to use other players, like HQPlayer.  However, for my needs, it is a better product than Roon.

[mozes]

Jriver sounds more transparent than Roon. I tried Roon in two occasions and Jriver always sound better tbut my ears. I am using Jriver version 22. I will upgrade soon to 23, hopefully it sounds better than 22.

[ted_b]

21 minutes ago, steveoat said:

and allowed users to use other players, like HQPlayer. 

Steve, have you taken a look at Geoff's scripting solution for JRIver-to-HQPlayer?  It's really very easy to set up, and can be customized to allow for different HQP filters based on tags, if needed.

[steveoat]

47 minutes ago, ted_b said:

Steve, have you taken a look at Geoff's scripting solution for JRIver-to-HQPlayer?  It's really very easy to set up, and can be customized to allow for different HQP filters based on tags, if needed.

 

Ted

 

I tried twice to get it to work, but had difficulties.

 

When I have time,  I will try again and then send screen shots to show where I am having difficulties.

[ted_b]

1 minute ago, steveoat said:

When I have time,  I will try again and then send screen shots to show where I am having difficulties.

OK, do it on that thread or PM me.  Love to help. 

[mourip]

2 hours ago, mozes said:

Jriver sounds more transparent than Roon. I tried Roon in two occasions and Jriver always sound better tbut my ears. I am using Jriver version 22. I will upgrade soon to 23, hopefully it sounds better than 22.

 

I am on v22 but have paid for v23. I really like the JRMC interface but at this point am only interested in sound quality improvements.

 

Any one tried v23 yet?

 

 

[Old Listener]

On 8/15/2017 at 0:32 AM, koupa said:

I included a typical compilation album. And I have screenshots from the three programs that I use plus tagscanner.

 

In general I think that Jriver is an excellent software. BUT I am used to something else in terms of support and customization. As I wrote before I don't like the attitude in their forums. If they listened us I would be much happier. If I didn't believe that I wouldn't have bought a master license twice. It's my main player in Linux since it's far more superior than anything else there.

 

A few disclaimers.  While I do have a JRiver Id (packaged Linux and MC), I use it in the headless mode.  My advice is based on using MC on Windows with names in English.  I have mostly classical music and other genres for which the composer and performers are both important.  I do not use Album views and never use the Album Artist tag.  I had to work carefully through using it on compilation albums.

 

Kroupa,  Ted_b's suggestion is almost right.  You need to place a value like "Various artists" or "Multiple artists" in the Album Artist tag rather than the Album Artist (Auto) tag.  This article in the JRiver Wiki might make things clearer.

 

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Album_Artist_and_Album_Artist_(Auto)

 

 

Adding a value to the Album Artist tag of compilation albums need not be too much work.  Your second screenshot shows a album cover repeated a number of times. You could click on the first occurrence and then shift-click on the last occurrence.  If the tag editing area isn't visible, click on "Tag" in the Edit menu at the top of the MC window to make it visible.  Find the Album Artist line and enter a value and press return.  Now scroll down in the list and find the next Album that is repeated and select all those occurrences and enter an Album Artist value.  Keep going until you have found and fixed all the compilation albums.

 

You may have to move to a different view and come back to the Album view before you see a change.

 

There is a quick and dirty way to get a view that displays Albums without relying on the Album Artist tag.

 

1. Right-click on "audio" at the top of the list of audio-oriented views.  Choose "Add library view"

 

2. In the window that  appears, choose Panes (text only list) or Categories (Album thumbnails with text underneath) in the "View as" field.  Give the view a name that will be meaningful to you.

 

3. Click  on the "Add" button below and to the right of the "Show Categories in this order" text.  In the windows that appears, click on "Expression" in the list under "Type".  Under "Expression to Group by", click on the down arrow head symbol and choose Album from the list of fields.  Click on the OK button to return to the previous window. [Album] should appear under "Show categories...".  Click OK to exit from this window.  See attached file

 

You should see a single item for each compilation album even if the Album Artist tag is empty.

 

For the record, the problem with compilation albums dates back 20 years to an inadequate definition of ID3 tags.  It is pretty simple to deal with it in JRiver.  The question comes up frequently in the JRiver forum and usually gets resolved quickly.

[Nikhil]

I also recently got Roon so have been doing the comparison with JRiver as well.

 

One of Roon's strengths is (almost) flawless network connectivity.  Roon sniffed out some AppleTVs on my home network and just a few clicks later I was streaming music and internet radio to those devices without a hitch.  This is something I tried to do earlier but always faced that Windows vs Mac divide.  With Roon it just doen't matter - all your network devices connect seamlessly.  Having said that, if for some reason you have a network problem the whole thing stops.

 

Roon relies heavily on it's metadata which isn't all that it's made out to be.  While still really good, if your music tastes are a bit different then their metadata info is average.  Some of the info is so trivial you wonder why they even use it.  The quality of the album info drops off quite steeply once you move out of the usual classical, pop rock genres.  For me the jury is still out on this heavily touted feature of Roon.  It can be much better.

 

JRiver is incredible in that it can decode pretty any file format you throw at it.  In terms of media management it really is no comparison.  JRiver opens almost all the archive file formats out there - most notably SACD ISO and DSD DFF files (which does not support metadata).  It's almost embarrassing to  bring this up on the Roon forum because it looks like most on there never owned an SACD disc and have no idea what you are talking about.   In fact they take wifi, local networks and internet access for granted.  JRiver is not that reliant on internet access.  

 

In terms of sound, I'm starting to favor Roon over JRiver.  Both use the SOX engine it appears but Roon's filters and DSP are several step ahead.  In fact given all the hoops one has to jump thru to get HQPlayer to work, I find myself using just Roon alone and it sounds great.  Roon's CLANS ("Closed Loop Analysis of Noise Shapers) are sophisticated and several steps ahead of JRiver.  It really compares very well with HQPlayer and sonic differences boils down to the DAC architecture.  Discrete DACs will better show Roon / HQPlayer features depending on the filter you choose.        

 

Roon at the end of the day has very good sound quality which is one of the main reasons why i purchased a licence.  However some of the holes in the offerings made me go for an annual licence rather then the full life version.  Will see how far it progresses in that time.  In software even two years is a lot of time.  Who knows what will come up next.

 

 

 

 

[Nikhil]

 

Noticed a small but useful feature that I use in JRiver GIZMO on my Android phone - the volume control keys.  Gizmo seamlessly allows you to control volume  (if enabled) by using the Up / Down keys.  This is a really handy little feature that I have been using for a while and has become second nature.  Very useful when you want to turn down the volume when seated in your sofa and you have to answer a call for example.

 

Roon does not have this feature (at least on my phone) and I have to tap on the zone icon + then use volume slider.   

Might be worth making a feature request on the Roon forum.

 

 

[bodiebill]

I use JRiver as a database only. Actual playing is done with XXHighEnd (PCM), APlayer with foo_dsd_asio or WTFplay (DSD & PCM).

 

JRiver allows me to work 'tagless'. In short: custom calculated tags are automatically populated based on file- and (3 level) folder names. I described this once on the JRiver forum:

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,100433.msg696309.html#msg696309

Reactions were lukewarm to say the least, but I love it. It saves me a lot of time and everything works smoothly.

 

In Roon this will never be possible.

[gcoupe]

Over the years (since 2012), I've tried JRiver a couple of times, but it just didn't click with me. I chanced upon Roon in February 2016. Being an (ex-)software architect, I was impressed by Roon's software design and architecture, and gave it a trial. I signed up for a lifetime membership before the trial period was up because I saw what the Roon folks had already achieved, and because I felt that they would be capable of taking the concept further. And they did, in version 1.3, delivering a major release that built organically on what was already in place. Roon may not be for everyone, but it's what I've been looking for in a music library and audio delivery system

[Abarth]

For me, Roon is not so much about rich metadata, but much more about the possibility to stream the music to the entire apartment, and if using Roon certified endponts, it's all in sync.

I am free to use any player available. Even Raspberry Pi's are now Roon certified. With a Audia HAT, that's more than enough for casual listening in the office or during cooking.

Forget JRiver for perfectly synced playback, it relies on DLNA and that protocol is not made for perfect sync.

 

Roon is (a bit too, in my eyes) expensive, but can allow you to buils a very good multiroom system without being tied to a manufacturer.

[eternaloptimist]

On 16/08/2017 at 4:57 AM, mourip said:

 

I am on v22 but have paid for v23. I really like the JRMC interface but at this point am only interested in sound quality improvements.

 

Any one tried v23 yet?

 

 

Am on v23. I think it sounds the same. Very clear, transparent. The ability to edit metadata is second to none. I have licences to too many programs... (including Roon) and JRiver's metadata management is the best. Not convinced by Roon's metadata. Tidal integration is tight. However... if ever Spotify were to go to lossless streaming... my Tidal subscription would vanish.

 

[szczemirek]

4 hours ago, eternaloptimist said:

Am on v23. I think it sounds the same. Very clear, transparent. The ability to edit metadata is second to none. I have licences to too many programs... (including Roon) and JRiver's metadata management is the best. Not convinced by Roon's metadata. Tidal integration is tight. However... if ever Spotify were to go to lossless streaming... my Tidal subscription would vanish.

 

+1

[Music Matters]

I'm still on JRiver V22, have a V23 license, but still waiting more stable releases of 23.

After extensive trial period of Roon, regarding the most important thing the SQ, I'm declaring JRiver the winner!

 

For the user interface I'm also prefering the JRemote liitle more, although ROON has some nice features.

 

I just don't understend the management of JRiver, they are bragging about some funny remote option "Panel" insted of polishing the best remote app, the JRemote

[firedog]

On 8/15/2017 at 3:35 PM, koupa said:

Second it is a database and not a conventional player. So it lacks a file manager. I have three different hard drives with music. I can only filter the root drive and not a subfolder. So if I want to manage my Beatles collection I can't. I cannot choose D:/The Beatles folder. 

You can get just about any result you want with Roon. Depends how you set up your tags and what you tell it to do with them, and how you search. 

 The Bookmark feature will also allow you define a very specific result (like the content of your Beatles folder, if it is included in your definitions of your library) and you can save that definition so yo can call up that result again. 

[firedog]

On 8/15/2017 at 4:46 PM, Johnseye said:

There's a big difference between a 3" and 10" screen.  I listen to a lot of live music and some bands like the Dead, Panic and Phish have over 1000 shows.  Roon's Android app can not browse through those albums, or shows, smoothly.  In fact it can take over a minute to move one scroll through.  I've repeated the behavior on multiple tablets.  I've posted the issue to the Roon forums with no response from the dev team there.  

Don't have this issue on my 13.3 inch Android tablet. Works fast and smoothly. So I'm not sure your issue is Roon. 

[firedog]

On 8/15/2017 at 5:58 PM, jimm2 said:

and didn't use such draconian tactics on their support forum. The latter really drove me to not want to buy their product anymore. 

Yep. They were jerks here in their sponsored forum, also.

[Johnseye]

3 minutes ago, firedog said:

Don't have this issue on my 13.3 inch Android tablet. Works fast and smoothly. So I'm not sure your issue is Roon. 

 

It is Roon without a doubt.  I've had a conversation with Danny and Mike from Roon about it and shared a video of what I've experienced.  Danny explained the Android tablet UI is completely different from the phone.  He loosely explained one is browser, the other is screen  The next big release of Roon will unify the phone and tablet UI with a complete redesign.  I have no problem with the phone app, it just sucks for scrolling because it doesn't have a bar.

 

It comes down to Roon's inability to handle a large number of albums.

[firedog]

1 minute ago, Johnseye said:

 

It is Roon without a doubt.  I've had a conversation with Danny and Mike from Roon about it and shared a video of what I've experienced.  Danny explained the Android tablet UI is completely different from the phone.  He loosely explained one is browser, the other is screen  The next big release of Roon will unify the phone and tablet UI with a complete redesign.  I have no problem with the phone app, it just sucks for scrolling because it doesn't have a bar.

 

It comes down to Roon's inability to handle a large number of albums.

Okay, but I'm not having that issue.

In any case, I've also got a pretty basic 9.7 inch iPad, and it is a better tablet than any Android one I've seen and works great with Roon. is definitely a better experience than Android for Roon. Unless something drastic changes with the next big release, I'd tell people to get an iPad for Roon.

And we won't even mention JRemote for Android tablets; when I asked JRiver why it was so basic and lacking, and not really suitable for tablet use, they basically told me (my paraphrase): "it's designed for phones, we don't care if it looks crummy and doesn't scale properly for your tablet.  We aren't planning on doing anything about it"