Schiit EITR

[Abtr]

On 10/27/2019 at 4:32 AM, davide256 said:

hmmm. I'm preferring the Eitr USB -AQ Eagle eye coax to the built in Gen5 USB.  The Gungnir built in USB has a softer, smoother sound but string bass tends to bloat.

Using the external Eitr to coax bass stays taut with impact but treble is a little grainier. I can deal with the graininess  but not with bass that doesn't sound right

 

Lately I've been experimenting with some coax to toslink converters to connect Eitr's output to my DAC. These are active devices and I tried four different converters that take 5V DC power, so that I can use a single Uptone LPS-1 to simultaneously power a converter and the USB interface of Eitr. In my system, two of the four converters give an audible improvement over Eitr's coaxial output. One device (Delock DLCK-62790 coax to toslink converter) clearly stands out, with improved bass and no trace of 'graininess'.

 

These results make me wonder what might be going on. Is toslink providing additional isolation of HF noise that may get through the transformer-based galvanic isolation and coaxial output of Eitr, and/or is jitter reduced by superior PLL circuitry of the coax to toslink converter, thus reducing electrically noisy PLL processing inside the DAC?

 

An explanation may also shed light on reports of audible differences between Eitr and an on-board Gen-5 module..
 

[davide256]

4 hours ago, Abtr said:

 

Lately I've been experimenting with some coax to toslink converters to connect Eitr's output to my DAC. These are active devices and I tried four different converters that take 5V DC power, so that I can use a single Uptone LPS-1 to simultaneously power a converter and the USB interface of Eitr. In my system, two of the four converters give an audible improvement over Eitr's coaxial output. One device (Delock DLCK-62790 coax to toslink converter) clearly stands out, with improved bass and no trace of 'graininess'.

 

These results make me wonder what might be going on. Is toslink providing additional isolation of HF noise that may get through the transformer-based galvanic isolation and coaxial output of Eitr, and/or is jitter reduced by superior PLL circuitry of the coax to toslink converter, thus reducing electrically noisy PLL processing inside the DAC?

 

An explanation may also shed light on reports of audible differences between Eitr and an on-board Gen-5 module..
 

One of the reasons I believe the AQ Eagle Eye works better for me than other coax is the DBS voltage biasing, I've done DIY exotic coax cable builds before and can't say that

the materials I see are  in the AQ cable construction are anything special, although to be fair they avoided materials that corrode over time.

 

2 questions

 

1)  when I plug Lush 2 USB cable between NUC and Gumby I can hear an extremely faint electronic computer "chatter" well below music volume.

Using the Eitr eliminates this. I'd like to try displacing the 5v USB to an idle LPS 1.2 I have and see if this changes anything.

Is there a simple way to do this that doesn't void your cable warranty?

 

2) Delock doesn't sell in the US, but iFi markets a product, was it one you tried, if so your thoughts?

 

https://ifi-audio.com/products/spdif-ipurifier/

 

 

I've used Toslink  before, IME it can be quite good if the devices at both ends were manufactured with serious attention to the Toslink

section.

[Abtr]

1 hour ago, davide256 said:

One of the reasons I believe the AQ Eagle Eye works better for me than other coax is the DBS voltage biasing, I've done DIY exotic coax cable builds before and can't say that

the materials I see are  in the AQ cable construction are anything special, although to be fair they avoided materials that corrode over time.

 

2 questions

 

1)  when I plug Lush 2 USB cable between NUC and Gumby I can hear an extremely faint electronic computer "chatter" well below music volume.

Using the Eitr eliminates this. I'd like to try displacing the 5v USB to an idle LPS 1.2 I have and see if this changes anything.

Is there a simple way to do this that doesn't void your cable warranty?

 

2) Delock doesn't sell in the US, but iFi markets a product, was it one you tried, if so your thoughts?

 

https://ifi-audio.com/products/spdif-ipurifier/

 

 

I've used Toslink  before, IME it can be quite good if the devices at both ends were manufactured with serious attention to the Toslink

section.

1) I use this:

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/various-adapters/usb-b-adapter-cable-for-55-21mm-female-power-supply-p-8332.html

I think it ships to the US. You may also be able to build something similar yourself.

 

2) I didn't try the iFi but I might check it out.

 

Apparently, the quality of Toslink implementations is quite variable. I think both the Toslink receiver of my  DAC and the transmitter of the Delock are pretty good. I think the sonic differences between the devices I tested can only be caused by different amounts of jitter. The audibility of this surprised me.  

 

[davide256]

While at CAF, I bought a vinyl copy of "Avatar" movie soundtrack as I wanted to do a comparison between Euphony and vinyl. Turned out that while the external Eitr sounded sharper on bass and transients than vinyl, the Eitr setup was bleaching midrange /bass tone colors and details. Switching to the built in USB was

much closer to the vinyl experience (not bad given that the digital soundtrack is limited to CD quality) but bass bloat, soft transients still applied.

 

@Abtr I've gone ahead and ordered the audiophonics connector, will see if replacing the NUC supplied 5v USB with external LPS 1.2 improves  what I hear with Eitr

or GEN5 internal USB.

 

[davide256]

Received the Ambiophonics external 5v USB connector, took about a week from France. @Abtr  many thanks, its a keeper. Using an LPS 1.2 as 5v power supply,

GEN 5 bass is cleaned up and deep but more importantly  intermittent irritating edginess has been removed in the treble. Alas, no real improvement using the external Eitr, midrange bleaching still present vs internal GEN 5

[STC]

12 minutes ago, davide256 said:

Received the Ambiophonics external 5v USB connector,

 

I think you wanted to say Audiophinics. 😂 

[Charente]

1 hour ago, davide256 said:

Received the Ambiophonics external 5v USB connector, took about a week from France. @Abtr  many thanks, its a keeper. Using an LPS 1.2 as 5v power supply,

GEN 5 bass is cleaned up and deep but more importantly  intermittent irritating edginess has been removed in the treble. Alas, no real improvement using the external Eitr, midrange bleaching still present vs internal GEN 5

 

Interesting results ... thank-you for the feedback.

 

My GMB is still the GEN2 version ... I never upgraded ... hence the EITR. But, I have an eye on getting GMB/UNISON when that's available, so then I'll be bang up to date. I hope I hear the improvements that others are reporting.

 

I also use EITR (5v injection) with a Metrum R2R DAC which only has S/PDIF or TOSLINK inputs (no USB) ... so the EITR will continue in useful service for the foreseeable future. 

[davide256]

8 hours ago, STC said:

 

I think you wanted to say Audiophinics. 😂 

yup, sorry, audiophonics

[Andyman]

8 hours ago, STC said:

 

I think you wanted to say Audiophinics. 😂 

 

I think you wanted to say Audiophonics 

😅

[Charente]

Ambiophonics ... is not unreasonable, though !! 🙂

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambiophonics

[Abtr]

14 hours ago, davide256 said:

Received the Audiophonics external 5v USB connector, took about a week from France. @Abtr  many thanks, its a keeper. Using an LPS 1.2 as 5v power supply,

GEN 5 bass is cleaned up and deep but more importantly  intermittent irritating edginess has been removed in the treble. Alas, no real improvement using the external Eitr, midrange bleaching still present vs internal GEN 5

Interesting, thanks! Now 3 reports in this thread (from different members with different audio systems) indicate that Schiit Gen 5 USB benefits from clean power.. Not sure why you don't hear an improvement using Eitr. The coaxial s/pdif interface between Eitr and your DAC might have an electrical noise isolation problem. May I suggest you try a decent coax to toslink converter.    

[STC]

10 hours ago, Andyman said:

 

I think you wanted to say Audiophonics 

😅

Unfortunately, my fingers don’t. 😂

[Abtr]

It seems the 'last production run' of Shiit Eitr sold out in less than a year. At least It dissappeared from the Schiit website.  Apparently Eitr does sell (!), so the reason why Schiit discontinued it remains a mystery.. IMO, most probably Schiit fears Eitr might somehow diminish their proprietary Unison USB DAC sales..  

[JoeWhip]

Having Unison, I would say no. At worst it sounds on par with the spdif inputs. IMHO, it sounds better. No need for an EITR if you have a Schiit DAC with Unison.

[Charente]

@Abtr ... I imagine what they mean is it does not sell 'well enough' and judging by the serial number movement that might be correct. Your second point is a reasonable one IMO, though Jason S denied that was the case, IIRC.   I also read varying reports on EITR vs Unison... some just saying 'it's different', altho' many seem to agree 'it's better', as @JoeWhip does ... and yes, if you have Unison you wouldn't need EITR. I've not heard it yet myself ... I haven't felt the urge to buy anything new ... quite satisfied with the system I have after spending time and effort getting it right. One day, perhaps, although I have spent some time on a speaker setup recently as an alternative to my headphones only listening before.

[cfisher]

Interesting to hear everyone revisit their Eitr impressions. At the start of the pandemic, I decided to upgrade my headphone system by buying a pair of RAAL-requisite SR1a and  Jot R. Recently, I have been going back and forth with two sources: Microrendu (LPS 1)>Eitr>Gumby and Ultrarendu (LPS 1.2)>Gumby. I have to say that I stand by my initial impression that the Eitr makes the difference between the Microrendu/Ultrarendu very difficult to discern, even with better power going to the Ultrarendu. I haven't upgraded my Yggy to Analog 2 yet or either DAC to Unison. I suppose I will do it sometime but as Charente said I am satisfied with my systems and not feeling much upgradeitis at the moment.

[Charente]

@cfisher .. yes I have the LPS1>EiTR>GMB ... that's probably the best possible setup. Presumably one could use the LPS1 on a Unison USB input ? ... or doesn't it work the same with the 5v vbus supply ?

[cfisher]

10 minutes ago, Charente said:

@cfisher .. yes I have the LPS1>EiTR>GMB ... that's probably the best possible setup. Presumably one could use the LPS1 on a Unison USB input ? ... or doesn't it work the same with the 5v vbus supply ?

 

I don't think you could use it to power the Unison board if that is what you are suggesting. Back to Abtr's suggestion about Schiit discontinuing Eitr to prevent cannibalizing Unison sales, I'm skeptical. That doesn't seem like Schiit's style to me, particularly with the new Thunderdome approach. I expect there are real improvements with Unison. I am just not motivated to send my DACs back for the upgrade at the moment.

[OldBigEars]

I have an Eitr in perfect condition with box, like new, if anyone's interested?  pm me.

[Abtr]

23 hours ago, Charente said:

@Abtr ... I imagine what they mean is it does not sell 'well enough' and judging by the serial number movement that might be correct. Your second point is a reasonable one IMO, though Jason S denied that was the case, IIRC.   I also read varying reports on EITR vs Unison... some just saying 'it's different', altho' many seem to agree 'it's better', as @JoeWhip does ... and yes, if you have Unison you wouldn't need EITR. I've not heard it yet myself ... I haven't felt the urge to buy anything new ... quite satisfied with the system I have after spending time and effort getting it right. One day, perhaps, although I have spent some time on a speaker setup recently as an alternative to my headphones only listening before.

 

You're probably right that Eitr doesn't sell well enough for Schiit to continue its production. But I'm quite sure there is a market for a Unison based Eitr, if it's better than the Gen 5 Eitr. I for one would buy it (especially if it had a well implemented Toslink output) and probably many who currently own an Eitr would try it. It might be a good USB solution for non-Schiit DACs.

 

Alas, Schiit doesn't have plans for a Unison Eitr either. This is unfortunate because I suspect many of us are not prepared to buy a Schiit DAC for its Unison USB. At least not me. Like you, I'm basically satisfied with my audio system and I certainly don't feel the need to replace my current DAC.

[davide256]

While the Unison upgrade mitigated the Gen5 susceptibility to USB 5v quality, I didn't find it more than a minor improvement when I received the Gumby back.

Have used the Eitr now into a Chord Mojo, much prefer the Mojo's USB DAC input to coax from the Eitr into the Mojo... low bass is better and

DSD is supported.

[Abtr]

On 7/18/2020 at 10:55 PM, davide256 said:

While the Unison upgrade mitigated the Gen5 susceptibility to USB 5v quality, I didn't find it more than a minor improvement when I received the Gumby back.

Have used the Eitr now into a Chord Mojo, much prefer the Mojo's USB DAC input to coax from the Eitr into the Mojo... low bass is better and

DSD is supported.

 

Do you prefer the Mojo via its USB input over the Gumby through its Unison input?
 

[davide256]

7 hours ago, Abtr said:

 

Do you prefer the Mojo via its USB input over the Gumby through its Unison input?
 

I sold the Gumby because I preferred the Mojo... less digital artifacts and more bass below 40hz. Gumby in my setup reminded me a lot of an EL34 tube amplifier, romantic mid range with roll off at frequency extremes

[Abtr]

17 hours ago, davide256 said:

I sold the Gumby because I preferred the Mojo... less digital artifacts and more bass below 40hz. Gumby in my setup reminded me a lot of an EL34 tube amplifier, romantic mid range with roll off at frequency extremes

 

Regarding your preference for the USB input vs. the coax input of Chord Mojo, designer Rob Watts states this:

 

"It's complicated and depends upon a number of factors - principally the amount of RF noise injected into the Mojo, and the amount of correlated noise that gets in. It will depend upon the source device as to which sounds best. My preference is optical, as this has the smoothest sound quality and best depth, as it does not suffer from both of the aforementioned problems."
(see: https://www.the-ear.net/how-to/rob-watts-chord-mojo-tech )

 

So Rob Watts prefers optical! My experience with my RME ADI-2 DAC is similar. (Unlike you,) I much prefer Eitr's coax output over the USB receiver of the ADI-2 (with or without 5V injection), but connecting Eitr via a coax-to-toslink converter to the ADI-2 DAC sounds even better. Best description may be that every aspect or quality of the music/sound improves..       

[Charente]

Interesting discourse ... of course Mike M of Schiit completely disagrees ... he rates optical as the least best ... perhaps with HIS equipment, tho' ??

 

@Abtr ... which coax/toslink converter are you using ?