Schiit EITR

[buonassi]

5 hours ago, TubeMan said:

it has no protection against external disturbances EMI or RFI,

I can attest to this .... every time my thermostat clicks 'off' it sends a spike through the mains and reboots eitr.  power conditioner didn't work.  had to move to completely different circuit and I still get some 'clicks' but at least no reboot.  

 

Actually, I still own the eitr, but found the SU-1 by singxer used for a great price, and prefer it because of the linear power supply built in and zero disturbances from transient spikes on my AC line.  Sound quality wise, they are very close - really can't say one sounds better than the other.

[Abtr]

49 minutes ago, buonassi said:

I can attest to this .... every time my thermostat clicks 'off' it sends a spike through the mains and reboots eitr.  power conditioner didn't work.  had to move to completely different circuit and I still get some 'clicks' but at least no reboot.

I agree about the thermostat clicks, although here the Eitr doesn't reboot, it only 'stops working' for a second or so. I think it must be RF/EM radiation from the thermostat connecting and/or disconnecting.

 

49 minutes ago, buonassi said:

Actually, I still own the eitr, but found the SU-1 by singxer used for a great price, and prefer it because of the linear power supply built in and zero disturbances from transient spikes on my AC line.  Sound quality wise, they are very close - really can't say one sounds better than the other.

Eitr also has a (built in) linear power supply.

[Lebouwsky]

1 hour ago, buonassi said:

I can attest to this .... every time my thermostat clicks 'off' it sends a spike through the mains and reboots eitr.  power conditioner didn't work.  had to move to completely different circuit and I still get some 'clicks' but at least no reboot.  

 

Actually, I still own the eitr, but found the SU-1 by singxer used for a great price, and prefer it because of the linear power supply built in and zero disturbances from transient spikes on my AC line.  Sound quality wise, they are very close - really can't say one sounds better than the other.

Same problem here. It is a flaw in the design and although they have their reasons for choosing this external A-C-A-C / internal A-C-D-C approach, to me it doesn’t compromise the negative sides.

 

An isolation transformer might help, @Charente can tell you more about it. 

 

@Abtr what do you mean by RF radiation? Mine even clicks when turning the light on/off and is very sensitive for small peaks and drops in current.

 

What I know from an lt3045 regulator for example  is that it is capable of dropping a DC voltage at a very precise level (DC to DC). But the drop down can only be in the range of 1 to 8 volts max, otherwise it gets to hot.

 

This schitt A-C to A-C  voltage regulator drops it from 230 to 6.5. One might ask how precise it is and how variable input to the linear power supply might influence it. I dont know what’s the operating voltage of the Eitr’s linear power supply, but I can imagine it’s got its min and max.

 

Not an expert at all, just speculating based on some basic knowledge I’v gathered here at this forum.

[Abtr]

54 minutes ago, Lebouwsky said:

@Abtr what do you mean by RF radiation? Mine even clicks when turning the light on/off and is very sensitive for small peaks and drops in current.

Electro magnetic radiation from sparking mains switches. Mine also once in a while stops when I turn on a light switch.

 

54 minutes ago, Lebouwsky said:

What I know from an lt3045 regulator for example  is that it is capable of dropping a DC voltage at a very precise level (DC to DC). But the drop down can only be in the range of 1 to 8 volts max, otherwise it gets to hot.

 

This schitt A-C to A-C  voltage regulator drops it from 230 to 6.5. One might ask how precise it is and how variable input to the linear power supply might influence it. I dont know what’s the operating voltage of the Eitr’s linear power supply, but I can imagine it’s got its min and max.

...

The wall wart AC-AC transformer of Eitr transforms 115 or 230 Volts AC down to 6,3 Volts AC, which is nothing an AC-DC rectifier and LT3045 can't handle. The advantage of the Schiit trafo being away from the Eitr is that any EM radiation from the trafo will not interfere with the operation of the Eitr.. 

[Charente]

From @Lebouwsky's cue ...  I did find that my Balanced Power Supply (BPS) (originally proposed by @Abtr) did provide relief from 'clicks' although did not entirely remove them. More satisfying was the improvement in sound quality and I wrote about that at length earlier in the thread (about page 15 from memory).  I experimented quite a lot with what I had plugged in to the BPS and in the end I decided to connect just the DAC and AMP to the BPS (no strip) and leave the energiser for the LPS-1 and the EITR wall-wart outside of the BPS. 

 

I have recently moved house and the electricity installation needed updating, so, I took the opportunity to arrange a separate circuit for my audio. That has made a noticeable difference to SQ and noise removal ... I very rarely experience an EITR related click now ... maybe once a week, if that.

[Lebouwsky]

43 minutes ago, Charente said:

 

I have recently moved house and the electricity installation needed updating, so, I took the opportunity to arrange a separate circuit for my audio. That has made a noticeable difference to SQ and noise removal ... I very rarely experience an EITR related click now ... maybe once a week, if that.

Congratulations with your new home and separate circuit! 

[Abtr]

I found that a Mutec MC-3+ S/PDIF reclocker (Link) between Eitr and DAC made a positive SQ difference. USB finally sounds better than CD (also through the Mutec) in my system!

[Abtr]

17 hours ago, Charente said:

...

I have recently moved house and the electricity installation needed updating, so, I took the opportunity to arrange a separate circuit for my audio. That has made a noticeable difference to SQ and noise removal ... I very rarely experience an EITR related click now ... maybe once a week, if that.

Congratulations on the new house! I really think the Eitr clicks are RF induced, possibly the isolation transformer coils pick it up..  I can't imagine that the buffered and regulated DC supply of the Eitr would be sensitive to mains voltage drops that seem to have no impact on other gear. Maybe mains switches in your new home are of better quality or newer and/or spatially further removed from the Eitr..  

[Abtr]

On ‎11‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 11:11 PM, Charente said:

...

I experimented quite a lot with what I had plugged in to the BPS and in the end I decided to connect just the DAC and AMP to the BPS (no strip) and leave the energiser for the LPS-1 and the EITR wall-wart outside of the BPS. 

...

Regarding the Eitr I have the opposite experience. Plugging Eitr into the BPS sounds better in my system.

[Charente]

On 11/24/2018 at 4:53 PM, Abtr said:

Congratulations on the new house! I really think the Eitr clicks are RF induced, possibly the isolation transformer coils pick it up..  I can't imagine that the buffered and regulated DC supply of the Eitr would be sensitive to mains voltage drops that seem to have no impact on other gear. Maybe mains switches in your new home are of better quality or newer and/or spatially further removed from the Eitr..  

 

@Lebouwsky & @Abtr ... thank-you. 

 

I dug back on what Mike Moffat said about this problem ... in an earlier post on the issue ...

 

 

Yes,  ... perhaps, the new circuit, new switches/sockets and new earth cable and ground rod have all helped.

[Charente]

17 hours ago, Abtr said:

Regarding the Eitr I have the opposite experience. Plugging Eitr into the BPS sounds better in my system.

 

Interesting .. it might be the (cheapo) strip I was using, into which I had the AMP, DAC & EITR all plugged, when I tried. I'll try again with a better quality strip at some point and see if I can tell any difference.

[Ralf11]

how noise free is the Aquitainian power?

[Charente]

@Ralf11 ... I have no idea ! ?

[Ralf11]

the powerstrip comment made me think of that - somewhere on here I have results from getting our elec. utility out to test my own house (which was fine) - it is 6 blocks from a sub-station in a residential area

 

dunno if you can do that, but threaten to riot if they don't put a noise meter on it...

 

also check all sources of noise - heat pumps, LEDs, etc.

 

you can maybe move things around so the stereo is plugged into circuits with lower noise, or likely to have lower noise

[Charente]

@Ralf11 ... HaHa ... not convinced that threatening a riot will wash with Électricité de France ... I'll just get the usual dismissive gallic shrug, I suspect ! ? ... but I might ask the question, out of curiosity, and see where it gets me !

 

The substation is just 500 mtrs away ... we're on the edge of town. Local industry ... the nearest is a sawmill about 10 kms away. 

 

I only have audio equipment on an independent circuit ... and tbh I'm happy with it. My posts were really in response to others that appear to be having issues. 

 

Thank-you for your suggestions tho'.

[Abtr]

6 hours ago, Charente said:

 

@Lebouwsky & @Abtr ... thank-you. 

 

I dug back on what Mike Moffat said about this problem ... in an earlier post on the issue ...

 

 

Yes,  ... perhaps, the new circuit, new switches/sockets and new earth cable and ground rod have all helped.

It's not clear to me from Mike Moffat's explanation what the exact mechanism that causes the clicks is. He says: "The situation is that the Eitr is isolated – electrostatically and electromagnetically. […] There is no, none, nada electrical connection between the input and output USB and coax, respectively." And power switches "can send pulses back through the wiring, which acts like an antenna, and rarely can cause a tic or a few millisecond interruption in the Eitr." He then compares this with the Mani "which can pick up RF in a very few environments." He also seems to say that capacitance combined with stray inductance in the specific environment ultimately causes the clicks. But what is stray inductance?

 

I don't see how the coaxial part of the Eitr is different from the coaxial output circuitry  of e.g. a CD transport and likewise the power supply should be able to handle power voltage transients from switches. So it must have something to do with the isolation of the USB input and coaxial output. But what, and how does that work? Is it a discharge of capacitance triggered by stray inductance (whatever that is)? All power wiring and switches in my house are fairly new so that shouldn't be a problem.

 

Whatever the cause, like you I can live with an occasional click or drop out. The SQ improvement the Eitr gives far outweighs this slight annoyance.

[Charente]

Stray inductance ... briefly described here ... 

http://www.learningaboutelectronics.com/Articles/What-is-stray-inductance.php

I'm trying to figure out how this might apply in the EITR situation.

[Ralf11]

you need to know more about the internals of the Eitr to really figure this out

 

 

but as John Muir once said "Everything is hitched to everything else in the universe..."

 

while he did not specifically mention Inductance - that is one of the hitchin' posts

 

of course there is also the issue of the time horizon but just think about stuff that is close to the Eitr or ... inside it

[Abtr]

8 hours ago, Charente said:

Stray inductance ... briefly described here ... 

http://www.learningaboutelectronics.com/Articles/What-is-stray-inductance.php

I'm trying to figure out how this might apply in the EITR situation.

Thanks. I also can't figure it out. I think by now that Mike Moffat suggests that a power switch causes voltage transients that may induce stray inductance in (parallel) AC power wires in the home which in turn and in combination with Eitr's capacitance might somehow trigger a drop out..      

[Charente]

End of life ?

 

It seems that EITR's days are numbered ... as a product.

 

Schiit's new UNISON USB (TM Schiit) is their new own in-house development USB solution that will eventually roll out to all the USB based products. But no, it seems, there won't be a UNISON EITR replacement (according to Jason Stoddard) ... some disappointment, from me anyway.

 

So, UNISON USB could be another game changer.

[R1200CL]

Seen this:

http://lucasbosch.de/schiit/jason-stoddard-shiit-happened-a5paper-lblb.pdf

[Abtr]

37 minutes ago, Charente said:

End of life ?

 

It seems that EITR's days are numbered ... as a product.

 

Schiit's new UNISON USB (TM Schiit) is their new own in-house development USB solution that will eventually roll out to all the USB based products. But no, it seems, there won't be a UNISON EITR replacement (according to Jason Stoddard) ... some disappointment, from me anyway.

 

So, UNISON USB could be another game changer.

Can you provide a link?

[TJHUB]

49 minutes ago, Charente said:

End of life ?

 

It seems that EITR's days are numbered ... as a product.

 

Schiit's new UNISON USB (TM Schiit) is their new own in-house development USB solution that will eventually roll out to all the USB based products. But no, it seems, there won't be a UNISON EITR replacement (according to Jason Stoddard) ... some disappointment, from me anyway.

 

So, UNISON USB could be another game changer.

 

This is disappointing news, but there are many other choices out there.  

[exdmd]

12 minutes ago, Abtr said:

Can you provide a link?

 

See this link

[exdmd]

2 minutes ago, TJHUB said:

 

This is disappointing news, but there are many other choices out there.  

 

If the new Unison USB is really as good as beta testers have reported it may well obsolete other outboard USB decrapifiers. Have to wait for the new USB to roll out to the general public. I will send my Yggy in for the new board as soon as Schiit makes it available.