Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital: MQA HW decoding at reasonable cost

[asdf1000]

Just now, Miska said:

 

Yes, set the volume in S2 to 0 dB. That is how my measurements were done. When listening, set the software volume in HQPlayer to -3 dB or lower. DAC's volume should be left at 0 dB (practically should result in multiplication by 1).

 

 

Thanks!

[creativepart]

Long time lurker and even semi-regular poster LOOOOONG ago (in 2004 I was an Ack! dAck! DAC  owner!). I just wanted to drop my $.02 into the conversation.

 

I've been using a Benchmark Dac 1 USB for something like 8 years and basically enjoying it (Musical Fidelity A5 integrated and B&W CM 6 speakers). I mostly listen to vinyl (VPI Classic 1 TT).  Once I heard the difference between Spotify and Tidal I switched my streaming to Tidal and when MQA came out I got a Meridian Exp2 to give it a listen.

 

I recently, well, last week, heard about the Pre Box S2 Dac. I got one this week and replaced the Meridian. I'm running it into the Direct inputs of my A5 integrated to bypass the pre-amp. I mostly stream Tidal MQA Masters through it. Years ago I copied  745 CDs I owned to a HD in ALAC at full-resolution. So, I still use that library, as well. I'm a Audirvana Plus user on an iMac.

 

This s a great little Dac. Compared to the Benchmark it's a tad forward, but not fatiguing in my system.

 

Hey, it's $300 buy one just to play with. If you don't like it you can sell it for probably close to the purchase price.

[creativepart]

On 4/30/2018 at 1:05 AM, PowerAudio said:

 I have a macbook and manually set it to 192k under the "audio devices".

The problem with the Mac is that when you set the output to anything - like 192 under audio devices it will upsample EVERYTHING to 192 and the upsampling engine on the Mac isn't very good.

 

You really have only two choices. Manually change the settings in audio devices to mirror the resolution of the source material on every file OR use software that will take care of this for you. Audirvana Plus does this for you. You set your mac at 16/44.1 in audio devices and Audirvana will adjust this on the fly for every file you play.  I assume Roon does this too, but I've not used it. There may be others that do this for you, I'm just aware of Audirvana Plus. And, current versions support MQA and work with both Tidal and Qobuz.

[Javier de Esteban]

Hi! 

Thanks for your help. I've been a hiden reader of this forum for some time!

I have a problem... I have just received the DAC this morning and when I plug it (USB or the provided power supply) I just get the  Pro-Ject logo fixed in the screen. None of the buttons work either.

Is this something others have suffer? Am I doing something basic wrong? Is it only mine that doesn't work?

Thank you so much for your help!!

Best!

Javier

[creativepart]

That's certainly not how mine works. Out of the box failure?

[left channel]

@Javier de Esteban it should only display that logo while starting up. The logo should disappear quickly, the screen should display the status screen (showing volume, connections, and sample rate), and the buttons should work. I suggest you return it for exchange or refund.

[Javier de Esteban]

Thank you guys!

After thousands of plug in/plug out, I have finally been able to run it for a few minutes. I have played MQA from Tidal with no issues but it has stopped playing when I have changed to a non MQA song.

Then I have changed to Qobuz and I got no sound either.

So I have unplugged and plugged again and got to the logo only phase again.

Any other thoughts or should I just return it and ask for a new one?

thanks again!!

j

[left channel]

17 minutes ago, Javier de Esteban said:

Thank you guys!

After thousands of plug in/plug out, I have finally been able to run it for a few minutes. I have played MQA from Tidal with no issues but it has stopped playing when I have changed to a non MQA song.

Then I have changed to Qobuz and I got no sound either.

So I have unplugged and plugged again and got to the logo only phase again.

Any other thoughts or should I just return it and ask for a new one?

thanks again!!

j

 

Return it.  It's defective.

[Javier de Esteban]

Thanks!

 

If I leave it unplugged for a while and then just connect the power DC 5V it works. It's when I plug the USB when it starts failing.

 

May it be an issue of the cable? Actually I am waiting to receive a good one, the one I am using is a cheap printer cable.

 

Thanks!

[left channel]

@Javier de Esteban good luck with the new cable. Let us know what happens, but I remain suspicious of the S2D itself.

[Javier de Esteban]

Hi again!

Just received a replacement for the S2D and works perfect!

Thanks again for you help.

Now I am thinking on upgrading it with an EPS. Which one would you recommend? I have read the recommendations from the designer, but I am not so expert to decide which would be the best option on the budget/mid range.

Thanks!

Javier

[left channel]

5 hours ago, Javier de Esteban said:

Hi again!

Just received a replacement for the S2D and works perfect!

Thanks again for you help.

Now I am thinking on upgrading it with an EPS. Which one would you recommend? I have read the recommendations from the designer, but I am not so expert to decide which would be the best option on the budget/mid range.

Thanks!

Javier

 

Glad to hear that news, thanks for letting us know! You'll find lots of previous discussion of power supplies here. I'm happy with a cheap linear "wall-wart", while others are happy upgrading to an iFi switching PSU even though the designer recommends only linear. Others are happy with a Teradak, and on up past the UpTone LPS and into the pricing stratosphere.

[Javier de Esteban]

Thanks!

Please apologize me for my ignorance but, what's the difference between the provided PSU and a cheap linear wall-wart?

I assume that the provided is not linear, right?  

I was thinking on the iFi until I read about the designer recommendation.

Best!

J

[left channel]

2 hours ago, Javier de Esteban said:

Thanks!

Please apologize me for my ignorance but, what's the difference between the provided PSU and a cheap linear wall-wart?

I assume that the provided is not linear, right?  

I was thinking on the iFi until I read about the designer recommendation.

Best!

J

 

The provided PSU is switching. The designer says the provided PSU is intended for use with S/PDIF connections only, and recommends a linear PSU when connected via USB. If you search this topic for "PSU" you'll get two pages of results.

[Javier de Esteban]

crystal clear now! thanks once again!!!!

[left channel]

Relevant posts from the Mytek Liberty thread:

 

5 hours ago, arcman said:

Has anyone compared the Liberty to the Pro-Ject S2 side by side

 

Steven Stone reviewed the Pro-Ject S2 in the latest TAS and compared the Liberty Dac. Paraphrasing, Steven stated the S2 was not a big step downwards from the Liberty, more like a sideways step. 

 

2 hours ago, Kilauea50 said:

I have had both.  While the S2 does sound good, the build quality is horrible.  I have had 3.  The usb just stops working.  The first unit was playing and suddenly I had no music. I had not touched it since it was connected to a preamp.  I moved it to make sure the cable was plugged in ok and the whole jack fell out.  Audio Advisor replaced it and the second unit lasted about 6 weeks before the USB just stopped working.  I sent it back and they replaced it under warranty.  I decided then to get the Liberty.  The build quality is just so much better.  I saw a number of posts on the Roon forums of the S2 jack failing.  I would encourage you to get the Liberty if the $500 is doable

 

[Miska]

I think I've got some luck with my earlier unit then, it's been running 24/7 (because it doesn't have a power switch) without problems. So since something like September 2017. Maybe Pro-Ject has been doing some "cost optimizations" recently.

 

At least the Mytek DACs I've had in my possession; Stereo192-DSD DAC (which I still have) and Brooklyn DAC+ (which I had for some months) are certainly better build quality. But also different price level. I have no experience on Liberty, so cannot comment on that one.

 

[creativepart]

Miska, outside of build quality - how does the S2 compare soundwise to the B-Dack+ overall? Big difference?

[asdf1000]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

I think I've got some luck with my earlier unit then, it's been running 24/7 (because it doesn't have a power switch) without problems.

 

 

Same for me - not a single issue running 24/7. Fed via HQPe DSD512 via a microrendu  , sounds superb.

 

[left channel]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

I think I've got some luck with my earlier unit then, it's been running 24/7 (because it doesn't have a power switch) without problems. So since something like September 2017. Maybe Pro-Ject has been doing some "cost optimizations" recently.

 

 

18 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

Same for me - not a single issue running 24/7. Fed via HQPe DSD512 via a microrendu  , sounds superb.

 

 

Mine's been good too, on the hardware side at least. But the production run immediately before and the run(s) after ours have not been high quality. Problems have ranged from out-of-spec part substitution to connectors simply falling off the board.

The firmware has been a problem throughout. They appear to have neither tested at the factory nor paid the developer to fix bugs. Firmware updates are to be expected, not to mention ongoing technical support, but Pro-Ject management seems to have been completely unprepared and uninterested.

 

This is an award-winning product for which we all had high hopes, so it has been quite a disappointment. Similar firmware issues appear to be cropping up in another DAC in the S2 line, the Head Box S2 Digital. Pro-Ject has issued no firmware update for that one, and isn't even responding to inquiries. #Sad.

[Miska]

11 minutes ago, left channel said:

The firmware has been a problem throughout. They appear to have neither tested at the factory nor paid the developer to fix bugs. Firmware updates are to be expected, not to mention ongoing technical support, but Pro-Ject management seems to have been completely unprepared and uninterested.

 

For me, it is not much issue since the device performs fine under my (maybe niche) use case... So the latest firmware is fine for me.

 

[asdf1000]

28 minutes ago, left channel said:

The firmware has been a problem throughout.

 

The only firmware issue I'm aware of (as of the current version, after they fixed other issues) is the MQA one which they know about but I feed it DSD512 via HQPe and never had a firmware issue.

 

I may be the exception and not the rule though.

[left channel]

9 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

The only firmware issue I'm aware of (as of the current version, after they fixed other issues) is the MQA one which they know about but I feed it DSD512 via HQPe and never had a firmware issue.

 

I may be the exception and not the rule though.

 

That's the only remaining one, as far as I know: changing from MQA back to PCM with the Optimal Tranient filter engaged results in "thin" sound.

However, the Head Box S2 Digital exhibits some or all of the problems of the original Pre Box S2 Digital firmware, including loud pops and clicks when the sample rate changes between 44.1 and 48 kHz or their multiples.

John Westlake is no longer associated with Pro-Ject, but he has committed to releasing one more bug fix update just to be a good guy, and after that he may release an upgrade for a small fee to truly realize his vision for this design.
 

[left channel]

27 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

For me, it is not much issue since the device performs fine under my (maybe niche) use case... So the latest firmware is fine for me.

 

 

It's fine for me too, now that I use the filter you recommend. Thanks! Oh, and by the way you may have missed this question:

2 hours ago, creativepart said:

Miska, outside of build quality - how does the S2 compare soundwise to the B-Dack+ overall? Big difference?

 

[creativepart]

I'm not having any firmware issues - I have Roon set up upsample 44/16 to DSD 64 and all else I run through the S2 is MQA. I've had no problem running through mixtures of both kinds of files for hours on end. In fact, I've never had an issue.

 

All in all my S2 experience is completely positive and I find it a great option for under $400.

 

I switch between my S2 and my Benchmark Dac1 USB and and always return to the S2 for the main. If JW did offer improvements for purchase, I'd probably be standing in line.