Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital: MQA HW decoding at reasonable cost

[asdf1000]

On 06/04/2018 at 7:24 AM, Miska said:

 

For listening I use poly-sinc-short-mp(-2s) most of the time. And ASDM7 modulator to DSD512. So pretty much same as for iFi iDSD.

 

Here's a screenshot, but exact settings may vary depending on your preferences and the OS you are using...

 

Hi Jussi @Miska

 

I've tried to copy your settings (as a starting point). See attached for my sonicTransporter i7 settings.

 

Roon says it's HQP DSD512x48k being played but the Pro-Ject S2 DAC itself display doesn't show DSD512 sample rate.

 

Is that normal? See attached settings.

 

Do you see the DSD512 sample rate displayed on your Pro-Ject S2 DAC unit's display, with these settings?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[asdf1000]

Another question @Miska

 

Is there a way to disable all HQP DSP in a quick way, just to compare the DAC's internal filters vs HQP?

 

And also to compare against MQA.

 

(I wish MQA would go away but since I have this DAC, I might as well listen to hear what all the fuss is about)

 

Roon allows a quick DSP toggle on/off switch.

 

Is there a quick setting in HQP to do the same, to play everything bit-perfect but still keep all the HQP filter settings there when DSP is re-enabled?

 

Cheers!

 

[Miska]

5 hours ago, Em2016 said:

Roon says it's HQP DSD512x48k being played but the Pro-Ject S2 DAC itself display doesn't show DSD512 sample rate.

 

Is that normal? See attached settings.

 

Do you see the DSD512 sample rate displayed on your Pro-Ject S2 DAC unit's display, with these settings?

 

 

 

 

Yes it is normal, S2 doesn't show anything for 48-base DSD rates, only for 44.1-base ones. But as you have noticed also 48-base ones work...

 

2 hours ago, Em2016 said:

Is there a way to disable all HQP DSP in a quick way, just to compare the DAC's internal filters vs HQP?

 

No, there's no such thing. Supporting bit-perfect playback of PCM content is not priority for HQPlayer. You can do it, but it requires adjusting number of settings. It is sort of obscure use case for HQPlayer.

 

The way I deal with MQA is to let Tidal's application decode it and play it through HQPlayer Embedded's upsampling to DSD. End result is much better than what happens inside DACs with MQA's filters (dCS seems to have also taken similar approach).

 

[asdf1000]

5 hours ago, Miska said:

Yes it is normal, S2 doesn't show anything for 48-base DSD rates, only for 44.1-base ones. But as you have noticed also 48-base ones work...

 

Ah yes. When I choose 512x44k then i do get DSD512 displayed. Thanks.

 

Is there any advantage in measurements going to 512x48k ?

 

I’m guessing there’s a reason you do prefer this so there is a difference with 512x44k ?

 

Also I don’t see your CUDA offload and multi core settings as an option - is this not applicable to Linux Embedded?

 

And I don’t see min Vol and max Vol also? 

 

Cheers

 

[Miska]

44 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

Ah yes. When I choose 512x44k then i do get DSD512 displayed. Thanks.

 

Is there any advantage in measurements going to 512x48k ?

 

There's not much difference between the rate families in this case. In some cases 48x512 is useful, like with some filters and 48-base sources, or if you want to use auto rate family. So both work, the other one just doesn't display anything.

 

46 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

Also I don’t see your CUDA offload and multi core settings as an option - is this not applicable to Linux Embedded?

 

If you want to adjust multicore or cuda settings, you need to edit the configuration file manually. Some of the settings are not shown in the web configuration because they are usually set by a hardware manufacturer.

 

47 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

And I don’t see min Vol and max Vol also? 

 

They also exist, but are not visible. There are also some other volume related settings. But there is fixed volume setting if you want to set volume to fixed value and prevent remote end from changing it, and there's a setting for default startup volume setting when you boot up the system (when volume is adjustable).

 

[asdf1000]

9 hours ago, Miska said:

But there is fixed volume setting if you want to set volume to fixed value and prevent remote end from changing it, and there's a setting for default startup volume setting when you boot up the system (when volume is adjustable).

 

If I use the S2 DAC's digital volume control (never louder volume than -20dB max) then I can safely have HQ Play's volume fixed at 0dB right?

 

I shouldn't have to worry about clipping/distortion at HQP's software volume unless I have the S2 DAC at 0dB?

 

[Miska]

57 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

If I use the S2 DAC's digital volume control (never louder volume than -20dB max) then I can safely have HQ Play's volume fixed at 0dB right?

 

I shouldn't have to worry about clipping/distortion at HQP's software volume unless I have the S2 DAC at 0dB?

 

No, the value range of data between HQPlayer and the DAC is still limited and cannot exceed 0 dBFS. So do not turn HQPlayer's volume higher than -3 dBFS, otherwise you will likely end up triggering the limiter. This cannot be "fixed" after-the-fact using DAC's volume control.

 

[asdf1000]

2 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

No, the value range of data between HQPlayer and the DAC is still limited and cannot exceed 0 dBFS. So do not turn HQPlayer's volume higher than -3 dBFS, otherwise you will likely end up triggering the limiter. This cannot be "fixed" after-the-fact using DAC's volume control.

 

 

Noted. I'll take further HQPlayer discussion over to your HQPlayer thread, since this is not exclusive to the S2 DAC.

[Mark Dirac]

On 20/04/2018 at 8:46 AM, Em2016 said:

 

I'll take further HQPlayer discussion over to your HQPlayer thread, since this is not exclusive to the S2 DAC.

Taken to here

[mfsoa]

Update - My S2 now plays MQA without glitches. I made no change to the PC or the DAC, but it used to stutter ~ 2-3 seconds into every song, for 1-2 seconds. Every time - same thing. Now works perfectly.

 

When I play 705K from JRiver, I get horrible static. I then play at 356 for a second, switch back to 705 and it plays perfectly.

 

 

 

 

[chauphuong]

I read a topic at head-fi saying that this

DAC has a MQA related firmware problem. Is it ok now?  Just plan to have this to experience MQA. 

[PowerAudio]

Hello everyone, need a little help here and am hoping somebody can chime in, a lot of great info @left channel by the way!  Read all the posts but no one is experiencing this.  I'm new at this, so please bear with me.

Received the S2 a couple of days ago and it was working fine.  I have a macbook and manually set it to 192k under the "audio devices" and began streaming thru Tidal with Master quality selected without a hitch.  Now all of the sudden only 44.1k and multiples of it sound normal when selected thru mac's audio devices setting, otherwise it's loud static.  Even if Tidal is turned off.  Tried setting Tital to "Use exclusive mode" and "pass thru mqa", and it seems to switch the rates, but if it settles on 48k it's static, if its 44.1k it plays normally.  At this point it seems it's the hardware.

Also, is the display supposed to state that it's playing "mqa" for an example or does is only show the sample rate?

Any advice would be great, bought this Dac not only to listen playback but also for my home studio monitors.

[left channel]

@PowerAudio what version of the firmware is in your S2D? On the device or the remote press the Menu button and then the down arrow twice to display.

[PowerAudio]

@left channel it's 2.12.  The latest version it seems.

[left channel]

@PowerAudio sounds more like a Mac settings thing. Wish I could help but I'd have to borrow a Mac first. Forgot to answer your other question, sorry: when receiving an authenticated MQA signal the DAC will display a blue dot and also the final unfolded sample rate. (That same dot will glow green if MQA but not verified by the copyright holder, and pink/purplish if software decoding by your Tidal app is detected.)

[PowerAudio]

Thank you @left channel, will post here any changes or if I end up exchanging the unit.

[servoyguru]

Hi all,

a 'newbie' here.

I have read up to about page 10 of this thread, but thought I'd finally join in.

I am very interested in this DAC to connect to my Mac Mini running Audirvana Plus in to a Rega Brio amp & TDL Studio 3 speakers at home (where I don't use headphones).

I had been using the Meridian Explorer2 as it supports MQA (which I think sounds good, but don't have much material to try [not a Tidal subscriber]) but recently decided to switch to using my Beresford Bushmaster Mk II (with latest FW) via optical cable, all to play my own ripped, ALAC encoded music collection.

The Beresford is much better than the Meridian, so I was also considering upgrading to his Caiman SEG, but can't seem to see any comments on that on this site, so thought I'd ask if anyone 

a) has/had SEG & S2D and could compare them (or other Beresford DAC vs S2D)

b) is using a Mac with Audirvana & S2D and could comment on SQ

(I use an Arcam rPAC in my office & also previously had Oppo HA2, but sold that with Oppo PM1 headphones on eBay)

[I'm keen for answers as someone is currently selling an S2D on eBay for £250 that's only about a month old, so might be a bargain...]

Thanks

[Fella55]

Slightly off topic, but I've just seen the new Stream Box S2 Ultra. This is another John Westlake design.

 

http://www.box-designs.com/main.php?prod=streamboxs2ultra&cat=s2-line&lang=en

 

Looks interesting. Would consider this to sit between my Roon ROCK and S2D.

 

Bit pricey though

 

[left channel]

@Fella55 the Stream Box S2 Ultra is an interesting design. In the original announcement it was said to be built around Raspberry Pi and Volumio. I see the price has increased 200 Euros since then, to 799 (USD $950).

 

This makes it more expensive than a Sonore ultraRendu but less than a SOtM sMS-200ultra, while offering fewer apps than either. But it offers more hardware connectivity features, including wired and wireless Ethernet and an anti-jitter USB hub. Very ambitious! And if it remains an open RasPi Volumio design, one could theoretically install any apps that turn out to be missing, and may even plug in something like the SOtM clock.

 

I doubt Pro-Ject and their dealers are prepared to support us on any such additions, or even with simple Roon issues. Not yet. But I have suggested they get online and help us help ourselves in a sponsored online forum. Fingers crossed.

[Fella55]

I found this picture online showing the insides; It doesn't look like it's based on the Raspberry Pi, but I'm no expert! I hope it's one where new features can be added. Having said that, I'd only want it to work with Roon which I'm assuming it would? 

 

Maybe worth opening a new thread to discuss this device...?

 

EDIT - I've zoomed in on the image and there is indeed a Raspberry symbol on the left hand side.

 

[left channel]

@Fella55 yes, please do start another thread and drop the link in here! I already have a house full of streamers (one ultraRendu and several Squeezeboxes served by a microJukebox), so am done for a while at least but I'll follow the conversation with interest.

[simonhiggs]

19 hours ago, Fella55 said:

EDIT - I've zoomed in on the image and there is indeed a Raspberry symbol on the left hand side.

It's a raspberry pi compute module

[nodoubt]

wow, this fell off quick huh....

[asdf1000]

Hi Jussi @Miska

 

With the S2 DAC, if using it as DAC only (RCA outputs - not using headphone output) do you recommend having the S2 DAC's digital volume control set to 0dB? Or -3dB? Were all your measurements done at 0dB?

 

HQP Embedded for me is already always set at -6dB.

 

[Miska]

7 hours ago, Em2016 said:

Hi Jussi @Miska

 

With the S2 DAC, if using it as DAC only (RCA outputs - not using headphone output) do you recommend having the S2 DAC's digital volume control set to 0dB? Or -3dB? Were all your measurements done at 0dB?

 

HQP Embedded for me is already always set at -6dB.

 

Yes, set the volume in S2 to 0 dB. That is how my measurements were done. When listening, set the software volume in HQPlayer to -3 dB or lower. DAC's volume should be left at 0 dB (practically should result in multiplication by 1).