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Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital: MQA HW decoding at reasonable cost


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56 minutes ago, creativepart said:

I'm not having any firmware issues - I have Roon set up upsample 44/16 to DSD 64 and all else I run through the S2 is MQA. I've had no problem running through mixtures of both kinds of files for hours on end. In fact, I've never had an issue.

 

If you have the CPU power to do so, try and up-sample to DSD128 (minimum) and see/hear if you like it better (or not).

 

https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/raising-the-sample-rate-of-dsd-is-there-a-sweet-spot/

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Thanks. It seems when I set this up DSD64 was the only option. But I just checked and it was changable to DAD128. Hopefully, my aging iMac can handle it. We'll see.

Analog: Rega P8 > Ortofon Cadenza Black > Bob's Devices 20:1 SUT > EAR 834P Deluxe MM/MC tube phono stage

Digital: Shanling ET-3 CD Transport. Streaming via SoTM SMS200 Ultra Neo w/ SPS500 power supply > Chord Hugo TT2

Sound: PS Audio PowerPlant3 >  Naim Supernait3 > Harbeth P3ESR

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My S2 stays on 24 -7. I have long usb cable down to my main studio computer (which stays on 24/7). Plus, I still have wall wart plugged in and hooked to smart circuit to come on with my pre-amp.  I have never had an issue with the S2 with power outages or anything. As a former manufacturing manager for many years, if expectations are not there from the management level, corners can get cut when there is high volume demand that puts pressure on the manufacturing process. In the auto industry, high demand = overtime work which does not guarantee the same workers are doing the same tasks that they were doing during normal business week. The plant must have strict certification processes that allow flexibility with assemblers. I'm not saying this is the case here...but its a normal manufacturing issue that the great companies (Toyota, Honda, etc) have mastered.

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  • 2 months later...

My PC updated to Windows 1809 today and my S2D stopped working. It was a head-scratching waste of half an hour to get it going again.

 

When I first plugged in the S2D (into USB) Windows reported it was "setting up a new device" and that "is now working". But S2D did not appear in the sound options. The only place it appeared was in the settings page for Devices, where I was informed "driver not found". No plugging/unplugging and restarting would fix.

 

In device manager, I selected "update driver" and pointed device manager to search my hard drive and it found a driver & installed it. Now working.

 

I would be interested if anyone could tell me what's going on, why the 1809 upgrade would cause this one device's driver to go missing, even though Windows "set stuff up" when I first plugged the S2D in.

 

(I hate Microsoft.)   Thanks.

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15 minutes ago, fgribas said:

New driver available, an updated Thesycon driver 4.47

 

https://www.project-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/UNI_Project_v4.47.0_2018-09-05_setup.zip

 

The link will change when they update the S2D page, but this link will work for some days.

 

Thank you! After downloading and installing, I can confirm:
* the Pro-Ject website does not yet offer this download, and
* this is a Windows driver update only; it does not include a device firmware update

@Mark Dirac please let us know if this fixes the issue you reported above.

Everyone wants to date my avatar.

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9 minutes ago, left channel said:


@Mark Dirac please let us know if this fixes the issue you reported above.

I'm afraid this is a day too late - as I said in my post above "I selected 'update driver' and pointed device manager to search my hard drive and it found a driver & installed it. Now working."

 

But I need to add a section about software versions to the summary document. I think there's 3 bits of software we use? (a) firmware (b) driver and (c) the "Pro-Ject  Audio Control Panel" which I've never understood. Is the XMOS software in the driver? Or is the XMOS software the driver? And who is Thesycon? Did Thesycon write the driver for XMOS? Hmm.

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7 minutes ago, Mark Dirac said:

I'm afraid this is a day too late - as I said in my post above "I selected 'update driver' and pointed device manager to search my hard drive and it found a driver & installed it. Now working."

 

But I need to add a section about software versions to the summary document. I think there's 3 bits of software we use? (a) firmware (b) driver and (c) the "Pro-Ject  Audio Control Panel" which I've never understood. Is the XMOS software in the driver? Or is the XMOS software the driver? And who is Thesycon? Did Thesycon write the driver for XMOS? Hmm.

 

I read so many questions and complaints about this device, it's hard to keep track, sorry. I hope all the advertising of the S2D Pro-Ject is doing on this site is an indication that they've also invested some money in maintaining it. The release of this new driver may indicate they are indeed doing so.

My guess is that Thesycon is the contractor they've retained to take over from John Westlake on driver and firmware development. Based on their website, that is their specialty. As for the three components, the control panel apparently comes with the driver package and communicates with the driver and the firmware, to offer control and monitoring of what the PC sends and what the device does with it.

Everyone wants to date my avatar.

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14 minutes ago, fgribas said:

"Pro-Ject Audio Control Panel" is a part of the driver. Thesycon is a company that makes the driver for Pro-Ject any many other DACs based on XMOS chip.

 

For the firmware I'm not sure,  but I think is also made by Thesycon.

 

The earlier drivers and firmware were developed by John Westlake. John has promised us one final firmware bug fix update, and a future optional firmware upgrade to reach the full potential of his vision for this product. But John is no longer associated with Pro-Ject, Thesycon also does firmware, and I'd be happy enough if Thesycon takes over the bug fixing for the S2D and other DACs in the S2 line.

Everyone wants to date my avatar.

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8 minutes ago, left channel said:

 

The earlier drivers and firmware were developed by John Westlake. John has promised us one final firmware bug fix update, and a future optional firmware upgrade that to reach the full potential of his vision for this product. But John is no longer associated with Pro-Ject, Thesycon also does firmware, and I'd be happy enough if Thesycon takes over the bug fixing for the S2D and other DACs in the S2 line.

 

Pro-Ject is aware of the need for a new firmware. I've been talking with their support about firmware and drivers. Hopefully it will be released soon.

 

Thesycon won't take over the product, unfortunately. Not for free. As far as I know, the manufacturer (Pro-Ject) pays Thesycon to develop new drivers.

 

By looking at the 3 versions of the driver we have so far (looking at the inf files, control panel etc of each driver), it seems that all of them were made by Thesycon.

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4 minutes ago, fgribas said:

 

Pro-Ject is aware of the need for a new firmware. I've been talking with their support about firmware and drivers. Hopefully it will be released soon.

 

Thesycon won't take over the product, unfortunately. Not for free. As far as I know, the manufacturer (Pro-Ject) pays Thesycon to develop new drivers.

 

By looking at the 3 versions of the driver we have so far (looking at the inf files, control panel etc of each driver), it seems that all of them were made by Thesycon.

 

Thesycon worked in close consultation with John on the drivers then. Interesting. Well, according to their website they also do firmware, and we can only hope that one or the other will produce a firmware update for this device, and for the other DACs in the S2 line (which still contain bugs that were fixed in the last firmware update for the S2D).

Everyone wants to date my avatar.

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8 hours ago, fgribas said:

New driver available, an updated Thesycon driver 4.47

 

https://www.project-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/UNI_Project_v4.47.0_2018-09-05_setup.zip

 

The link will change when they update the S2D page, but this link will work for some days.

 

That didn't last long, I'm getting 403 Forbidden for that link now...

 

Edit: Curiously, with a browser it works, but for "wget" it returns 403...

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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So far, all driver's I remember seeing shipped with XMOS-based devices have been Thesycon ones.

 

Lot of devices out there that use XMOS chips have either XMOS' or Thesycon's USB vendor id. Only few manufacturers get their own USB vendor id. So you pretty much also know where the firmware was sourced from.

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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3 hours ago, Miska said:

So far, all driver's I remember seeing shipped with XMOS-based devices have been Thesycon ones.

 

Lot of devices out there that use XMOS chips have either XMOS' or Thesycon's USB vendor id. Only few manufacturers get their own USB vendor id. So you pretty much also know where the firmware was sourced from. 

 

 

We know John Westlake worked on the firmware. He also responded to us about driver / control panel changes in a way that sounded like ownership, but apparently he was working with Thesycon on those.

 

John is no longer associated with Pro-Ject, but a few months ago he promised to produce one final firmware bug fix update — on his own time, for free — just for completeness. He also said he then wanted to offer an optional inexpensive firmware upgrade, to realize his full vision for this design.

 

However, since then he's seemed fully occupied with his MDAC project, and hasn't responded to further queries nor made any statements on this topic.

Everyone wants to date my avatar.

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I have given up with the complexities and ambiguities of MQA and Tidal Masters, and have moved to Qobuz. Thanks to left channel for the gentle persuasion.

 

But I am surprised to see such a baffling set of "audio output" options, and can find no explanation or FAQ answer.

 

My selected output "Pro-Ject Box ASIO Driver" does not appear anywhere in Windows 10, specifically nowhere in the Windows 10 Sound Settings. Is it the case that Qobuz is bypassing Windows's sound stuff straight to the Pro-Ject driver somehow, in a way which Tidal does not?

 

Can anyone enlighten me please? Left channel?

 

 

8454192_Qobuzaudiooutput.thumb.PNG.b13bbfea563da5de90e4aade4c54dbe8.PNG

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It's just a matter that Tidal app doesn't support ASIO output, only WASAPI.

 

This is the main reason I use Roon, it supports output to ASIO drivers.

 

WASAPI (wth Exclusive Mode) and ASIO are both bit-perfect. But ASIO sounds better. Not every bit-perfect chain sounds the same. ASIO is better than WASAPI (many will disagree, many will say "bit-perfect is always the same" but that's not true).

 

Kernel Streaming sounds even better than ASIO, but there's a compromise with stability and compatibility. Almost no app supports KS.

 

Well, to use Tidal with ASIO you need another player that supports Tidal and ASIO output. Roon is great, but expansive as hell. You can use the default Tidal Windows app with the ASIO4ALL app: it's a virtual driver routes a WASAPI output to an ASIO driver. I used this chain before buying Roon.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hello! Just bought this DAC, and I've read several posts on this topic regarding power supply. Can you please recommend the best choice for a power supply?

 

To be more specific, I want to connect it to my PC via the USB port (for Tidal & MQA), however I found this in the user guide:

 

Quote

2. USB input is in use: Unit can be powered directly from computer via USB input. In this case is highly recommended to disconnect Power 5V DC cable from the unit - power disturbances from two power supplies could affect sound performance

 

So what choices do I have? Is really an external power supply out of the question when using the USB port for PC connectivity? I've seen many thinking of buying ''chinese linear power supply'' - are these better than a iFi Audio iPower 5v and can these be used concurrently with a PC USB connection? Can you recommend some specific linear power supply that are below a 100 euro price limit?

 

Thank you in advance :) 

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