franz159 Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 I have just read a positive review in July number of Italian magazine AudioReview about this new little DAC from Project http://www.box-designs.com/main.php?prod=preboxs2digital&cat=s2-line&lang=en A very reasonable entry level price for experimenting with MQA, but apparently not at all entry level performance. Main specs from Pro-Ject infosheet: • Dual mono construction • High end ESS Sabre ESS9038 dual DAC • Proprietary clock circuity design • Organic polymer capacitors and thin film miniMELF resistors • MQA hardware decoding • DSD64, DSD128, DSD256 & DSD512 (DSD over PCM) • Up to 24bit/192kHz for optical & coax inputs • 7 selectable digital filter characteristics • 1 proprietary optimum transient digital filter • Headphone output on the front (6.3mm) • Synchronization of all internal oscillators • Jitter as low as 100 Femtoseconds! • Gold plated four layer PCB • Full alu/metal sandwich casing in silver or black SRP: € 349,00 copy_of_a 1 Link to comment
filhodoassis Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 It has won the EISA AWARDS 2017/2018 in the Hi -Fi Expert Group: https://www.eisa.eu/awards/pro-ject-pre-box-s2-digital/ "This petite box shows that – in the world of digital audio – less can be more. Its long list of features includes full preamp functionality and the latest ESS Sabre DACs running in dual mono configuration. So it handles everything from DSD512 to 768kHz/32-bit PCM music media and will even recognise and decode MQA files. High quality passive components, an integrated headphone amplifier and a host of digital filter options complete the big picture. With an open and expressive nature, and supreme versatility, the Pre Box S2 Digital sounds bigger and bolder than it looks – making it great affordable hi-fi." Dual mono ES9038Q2M mobile DACs, should be very good! Link to comment
copy_of_a Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 8 hours ago, filhodoassis said: Dual mono ES9038Q2M mobile DACs, should be very good! This ... together with these features: • Proprietary clock circuity design • Synchronization of all internal oscillators • Jitter as low as 100 Femtoseconds! • 7 selectable digital filter characteristics • 1 proprietary optimum transient digital filter ... and the special filtering for a noise free USB input. see page 3: pdf ____________________________________________________ Mac Mini, HQPlayer | iFi Zenstream | Intona 7055-B | Singxer SDA-6 pro | Vincent SV237 | Buchardt S400 | SPL Phonitor One | Beyer DT1990pro Desktop: Audirvana Origin | Intona 7054 | SMSL M500MKII | NAD C 316BEE | Aperion Novus B5 Bookshelf | Lehmann Rhinelander | Beyer DT700proX Link to comment
beautiful music Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Did someone got a chance to listen to this device, eager to know more about it On 7/23/2017 at 0:32 PM, franz159 said: I have just read a positive review in July number of Italian magazine AudioReview about this new little DAC from Project http://www.box-designs.com/main.php?prod=preboxs2digital&cat=s2-line&lang=en A very reasonable entry level price for experimenting with MQA, but apparently not at all entry level performance. Main specs from Pro-Ject infosheet: • Dual mono construction • High end ESS Sabre ESS9038 dual DAC • Proprietary clock circuity design • Organic polymer capacitors and thin film miniMELF resistors • MQA hardware decoding • DSD64, DSD128, DSD256 & DSD512 (DSD over PCM) • Up to 24bit/192kHz for optical & coax inputs • 7 selectable digital filter characteristics • 1 proprietary optimum transient digital filter • Headphone output on the front (6.3mm) • Synchronization of all internal oscillators • Jitter as low as 100 Femtoseconds! • Gold plated four layer PCB • Full alu/metal sandwich casing in silver or black SRP: € 349,00 @franz159 I would be appreciated if you can post this review here Link to comment
left channel Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 On 8/18/2017 at 4:16 AM, sadekkhalifa said: Did someone got a chance to listen to this device, eager to know more about it @franz159 I would be appreciated if you can post this review here @sadekkhalifa here's a detailed article on another site: http://www.stereolifemagazine.com/news/item/1306-pro-ject-pre-box-s2-digital It's hard to call any of these "reviews" just yet. I'm not certain any reviewers have units in-hand. I am told units will be arriving at UK distributors in a week or so, and I've asked my local Pro-Ject retailer here in the US to look into ordering one for me. I will report here on any updates from them. This would be a good drop-in replacement for my Schiit Magni/Modi stack, so that I can finally compare MQA and DSD at full resolution. I'm also intrigued by the built-in reclocking and USB filtering, which may allow me to remove my USB REGEN from the chain. Also, the power options that make this a good option for traveling with a laptop as well as desktop systems. This is a very interesting little box. beautiful music 1 Everyone wants to date my avatar. Link to comment
Popular Post franz159 Posted August 21, 2017 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 21, 2017 @left channel As I mentioned in my original post, I read a review on AudioReview Italian magazine, which is a very reputable magazine, measuring and testing audio devices for more than 30 years. And yes it was a REAL review, written by somebody who actually used the device. @sadekkhalifa I do not think I would be authorised to "publish" the entire review here, nor I would be able/willing to properly translate 4 pages of review from Italian, including various charts of frequency response (PCM | DSD) or Harmonic Distortion (PCM | DSD) or Jitter Test (PCM | DSD) or Impulse Response chart for each of the 8 digital filters (Fast Roll Off, Slow Roll Off, Brick Wall, Linear Apodizing, Minimum Phase Fast Roll Off, Minimum Phase Slow Roll Off, Optimal Transient, Hybrid Filter). Having said that, I can definitely try to translate into English a few passages of the review which seem to be meaningful (at least to me). Here it goes.... .... It is less known that, in parallel to turntables, Project has developed a line of electronic devices which do not betray the company spirit. The line is called Box Design and consists of products enclosed in reduced dimensions, in order to satisfy the requests of big performance in small sizes... ..... the main actor of our test is called Pre Box S2 Digital, it is defined as a Digital Micro Preamplifier but it is much much more ..... Pre Box S2 is a Dac, a (digital) line pre (if you want) and an headphone amp .... behind this project there is one of the most expert technician of the digital world, a certain John Westlake ...... D/A conversion using top Sabe ESS9038Q2M. This chip, a 32 bit Dac including the Hyperstream II modulator, allows to reach 129 dB od dynamic range with a tHD + N distortion of . 120 dB .... For each channel it uses all the power of a single Sabre chip, and also the preceding and following architecture is completely dual mono .... synchronisation of clock circuits, obtaining excellent results, not only reaching incredibly low jitter levels, maybe not to the level of those declared (less than 100 femtoseconds), bat for sure among the best ever measured in our lab .... USB input manages PCM files up to 768 kHz and DS files up to DSD 512. .... capable of managing MQA encoded files ..... It is thanks to all interventions on the signal, clock management, component selection and compact design that the small Pre Box S2 Digital presents itself with absolute top performance ..... It is difficult to think how such a small box, black or silver, could be the heart of a digital system with very high performance ..... I started with with a piano from Chopin "Nocturnes", pieces rich of details that the Pro-Ject managed to present with a disarming lucidity, Dynamics of this small converter is really exemplary, to the level of well more expensive units ... Out of curiosity, I listened to 2L pieces in DSD and MQA. Well, if differences are there, they are smaller to my hearing resolving capabilities. If this is a good sign of how good MQA coding is, or it is a merit of the Pro-Ject device to manage this kind of signal in a coherent manner, well I do not know. .... An outsider among DACs with champion performance, but highly practical in its usage, inviting you to enjoy the music in the best possible way. It offers volume control that makes it a "pre" ..... With extreme simplicity, with a price that seems incredible, Pro-Ject simply sets a new benchmark, a new reference of compatibility and practicality. And of sonic performance. left channel, jventer and beautiful music 2 1 Link to comment
left channel Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 @franz159 thank you! There is nothing like that available in English yet. Everyone wants to date my avatar. Link to comment
HeadStrong Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Amazon carries their products but I don't see the S2. What is the USA availability? Link to comment
left channel Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 46 minutes ago, HeadStrong said: Amazon carries their products but I don't see the S2. What is the USA availability? USA availability: possibly in one month (late September). One person on another forum got that estimate from his local dealer. I'm still waiting to hear back from mine. But this makes sense for a European product, since I'm told UK availability begins in one week. USA dealer lookup: http://www.pro-jectusa.com/en-us/dealer-locator Everyone wants to date my avatar. Link to comment
Panelhead Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 This really looks like a good prouct. Dual 9038 chips, and all the other features for this price point. I assume it uses the 9038 chip for volume controller. This is a very good method. 2012 Mac Mini, i5 - 2.5 GHz, 16 GB RAM. SSD, PM/PV software, Focusrite Clarett 4Pre 4 channel interface. Daysequerra M4.0X Broadcast monitor., My_Ref Evolution rev a , Klipsch La Scala II, Blue Sky Sub 12 Clarett used as ADC for vinyl rips. Corning Optical Thunderbolt cable used to connect computer to 4Pre. Dac fed by iFi iPower and Noise Trapper isolation transformer. Link to comment
arcman Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 Is it a complete MQA unfold. "Handling MQA files" is something any Dac can do to a certain extent. I am considering this as a preamp. Nevermind. Looks like it does fully unfold MQA. Link to comment
Norton Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 HIFi News review: http://www.analogueseduction.net/user/products/large/HFN_Budget Esoterica_Pro-Ject Pre Box S2_lowres.pdf left channel 1 Link to comment
left channel Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Norton said: HIFi News review: http://www.analogueseduction.net/user/products/large/HFN_Budget Esoterica_Pro-Ject Pre Box S2_lowres.pdf Thank you! Finally. A full review in English, with listening and lab results. "This latest ‘digital box’ should not be confused with Pro-Ject’s earlier miniature DAC/network solutions – a new designer (John Westlake) and new chip technologies mark out the Pre Box S2 Digital as a vastly superior offering." Everyone wants to date my avatar. Link to comment
left channel Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Found this review on another forum:http://www.hificlube.net/artigos/reviews-testes/pro-ject-prebox-s2-digital/ This is an in-depth review, worth pasting into Google Translate or one of its competitors if you don't read Portuguese. The author gets into setup, configuration, and listening, and even compares it to a Chord Hugo 2, Chord Mojo, and an iFi Micro DSD. Press the blue "Continuar a ler" button to expand the entire article. Giving Translate the direct link didn't work well, but it was very much worth my time to paste this in by hand (section-by-section, to stay within Translate's text limit). Everyone wants to date my avatar. Link to comment
chauphuong Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Not any comparison to read. Conclusion of the article is that the stuff is best for MQA Link to comment
asdf1000 Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Lots of talk about this DAC/Pre around forums at the moment. On paper it certainly looks incredibly promising and worthy of an audition. I like how this has a separate 5Vdc input to the USB port, for those that want to try that instead of powering the entire unit by USB. Link to comment
franz159 Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 This Box S2 is indeed small! Link to comment
left channel Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 On 9/6/2017 at 8:43 PM, chauphuong said: Not any comparison to read. Conclusion of the article is that the stuff is best for MQA He compares it to the Chord Hugo 2, Chord Mojo, and iFi Micro DSD. But you're right, in the end most of these reviews unavoidably spend a lot of time on MQA because it's so new. In fact that's the only reason I am interested in this Box, though once I have it I might try DSD as well. For normal use however, I suspect I'll prefer my Modi/Magni 2U. Everyone wants to date my avatar. Link to comment
arcman Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 I would only be interested if it betters my Bluesound node2 MQA capabilities. I says it will probably we a lateral move. The bluesond analog outs sound slightly better than my older Nova Pre dac on non mqa hi rez sources Link to comment
chauphuong Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Any new news yet folks? Link to comment
arcman Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Here's another one that, at least, looks like it may be cheaper than the Mytek http://lnx.m2tech.biz/products/rockstars/young-mkiii/ Probably in the $1200-$1400 range if pricing matches previous products Link to comment
left channel Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 4 hours ago, arcman said: Here's another one that, at least, looks like it may be cheaper than the Mytek http://lnx.m2tech.biz/products/rockstars/young-mkiii/ Probably in the $1200-$1400 range if pricing matches previous products Interesting. None of their products include a headphone amplifier. Everyone wants to date my avatar. Link to comment
Popular Post gahabana Posted September 24, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted September 24, 2017 my experience with "Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 digital DAC" ...all great except one major issue in my setup: Am using odroidxu4 (running Armbian builds of Ubuntu) as endpoint for Roon as well as LMS/squeezelite. Worked immediately with no issues. I also have a benchmark dac2 hgc (which i used both as preamp for pro-ject s2 and to compare). Love - all resolutions worked out of the box. PCM all the way to 768khz and DSD via DOP all the way to DSD256 with Roon. Sounds very good. Haven’t done a lot of critical listening - but i hear nothing worse compared to Benchmark DAC2. Remote (one that comes with it) is cheapo plastic bit bigger then credit card but works great for volume control and switching filters or on the fly or sources etc. sounds GREAT to me. things i love compared to Benchmark: switching between various sampling rate sources is practically instant. i.e. from 44.1khz CD to 192khz hires source or dsd is instant. on benchmark there was 0.4sec delay or you missed bit from start of the song. if all upsampled obviously none of the dac’s have issue with changing sampling rates but it makes me happy. i still use LMS from time to time so that comes in handy over 24+ hours no issues, clicks, losing sync etc … i think digital piece/USB is well implemented and has no obvious bugs …in spite of changing, reseting, roon and squeezelite - not once i had to reboot due to sw bug. that is great!!!. e.g. SMSL M9 DAC i also have works fine sounds good but when you reboot the pc or endpoint it starts with hiss until music app (roon or squeezelite) actually starts sending sometjhing (or even silence) … no big deal but bit annoying. as i am planning to replace benchmark dac2 with it and going directly to poweramp can not do that with SMSL m9 but think i ll have no issues with Pro-Ject S2 it remembers volume setting upon power off … which is good if going to power amp directly MQA support - seems to work very well. 48 all the way to 192khz abd blue light works (tested with Roon/Tidal). downsides compared to benchmark: does not have balanced out’s that my amp has (Bryston) … can use RCAs but would be nice if it was balanced don’t care about headphones so did not compare at all it can not be powered off (if powered or connected via USB only and source is powered its always powered). not a big . deal … just would be nice if you could power it off has mute on remote just like benchmark … what benchmark also did is ‘Dim’ which takes volume 20 or 30db down so if you get a phone call can still hear the music but at much lower volume instantly … just cool i miss ability to power up amp via preamp/dac. it requires 12V output and i guess it did fit in benchmark and pro-ject bing 2-4 smaller box it kinda didn’t fit. if i switch to pro-ject and eliminate benchmark as a preamp ill have to turn on/off amplifier manually and cant do it via remote no more :frowning: i wish pro-ject would display sample rate and depth. behcmark does it with LEDs … and smsl has info screen. not that it matters cause it DOES work whatever you send to it (16/24/32 bit and any sample rate) … but benchmark is 2000EUR and Pro-ject 350. makes you wonder if its worth it. However, last step was to try S2 directly powering poweramp (Bryston SST2). All of the above still holds true however, there might be a problem for me to use it in that way unless you guys have some idea: Issue: when sample rate changes between the tracks very often i hear a farily loud click/pop between the tracks. I rebooted, powered off … changed settings in the DAC (filters and ‘distortion settings’ on or off) but that did not make any difference. i even inserted Intona isolater between by USB source computer and S2 just to be sure it’s not due to some ‘ground’ connection issues. My guess is that it could be fixed in the firmware of the S2 (whenever input sample rate changes drive output to 0 in few ms and that i think could do it) … it happens when going from 44.1 to 192 and any other mix … some combo’s almost every time some not so often. Of course if I upsample all the content from Roon to 352 or 384 kHZ it is a non issue but then MQA support is gone etc. I have no clue why i did not hear those clicks/pops when S2 was connected to Benchmark DAC2 which acted as pre-amplifier. Any thoughts/ideas ? Thanks !!! beautiful music and left channel 1 1 Link to comment
beautiful music Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 2 hours ago, gahabana said: my experience with "Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 digital DAC" ...all great except one major issue in my setup: Am using odroidxu4 (running Armbian builds of Ubuntu) as endpoint for Roon as well as LMS/squeezelite. Worked immediately with no issues. I also have a benchmark dac2 hgc (which i used both as preamp for pro-ject s2 and to compare). Love - all resolutions worked out of the box. PCM all the way to 768khz and DSD via DOP all the way to DSD256 with Roon. Sounds very good. Haven’t done a lot of critical listening - but i hear nothing worse compared to Benchmark DAC2. Remote (one that comes with it) is cheapo plastic bit bigger then credit card but works great for volume control and switching filters or on the fly or sources etc. sounds GREAT to me. things i love compared to Benchmark: switching between various sampling rate sources is practically instant. i.e. from 44.1khz CD to 192khz hires source or dsd is instant. on benchmark there was 0.4sec delay or you missed bit from start of the song. if all upsampled obviously none of the dac’s have issue with changing sampling rates but it makes me happy. i still use LMS from time to time so that comes in handy over 24+ hours no issues, clicks, losing sync etc … i think digital piece/USB is well implemented and has no obvious bugs …in spite of changing, reseting, roon and squeezelite - not once i had to reboot due to sw bug. that is great!!!. e.g. SMSL M9 DAC i also have works fine sounds good but when you reboot the pc or endpoint it starts with hiss until music app (roon or squeezelite) actually starts sending sometjhing (or even silence) … no big deal but bit annoying. as i am planning to replace benchmark dac2 with it and going directly to poweramp can not do that with SMSL m9 but think i ll have no issues with Pro-Ject S2 it remembers volume setting upon power off … which is good if going to power amp directly MQA support - seems to work very well. 48 all the way to 192khz abd blue light works (tested with Roon/Tidal). downsides compared to benchmark: does not have balanced out’s that my amp has (Bryston) … can use RCAs but would be nice if it was balanced don’t care about headphones so did not compare at all it can not be powered off (if powered or connected via USB only and source is powered its always powered). not a big . deal … just would be nice if you could power it off has mute on remote just like benchmark … what benchmark also did is ‘Dim’ which takes volume 20 or 30db down so if you get a phone call can still hear the music but at much lower volume instantly … just cool i miss ability to power up amp via preamp/dac. it requires 12V output and i guess it did fit in benchmark and pro-ject bing 2-4 smaller box it kinda didn’t fit. if i switch to pro-ject and eliminate benchmark as a preamp ill have to turn on/off amplifier manually and cant do it via remote no more :frowning: i wish pro-ject would display sample rate and depth. behcmark does it with LEDs … and smsl has info screen. not that it matters cause it DOES work whatever you send to it (16/24/32 bit and any sample rate) … but benchmark is 2000EUR and Pro-ject 350. makes you wonder if its worth it. However, last step was to try S2 directly powering poweramp (Bryston SST2). All of the above still holds true however, there might be a problem for me to use it in that way unless you guys have some idea: Issue: when sample rate changes between the tracks very often i hear a farily loud click/pop between the tracks. I rebooted, powered off … changed settings in the DAC (filters and ‘distortion settings’ on or off) but that did not make any difference. i even inserted Intona isolater between by USB source computer and S2 just to be sure it’s not due to some ‘ground’ connection issues. My guess is that it could be fixed in the firmware of the S2 (whenever input sample rate changes drive output to 0 in few ms and that i think could do it) … it happens when going from 44.1 to 192 and any other mix … some combo’s almost every time some not so often. Of course if I upsample all the content from Roon to 352 or 384 kHZ it is a non issue but then MQA support is gone etc. I have no clue why i did not hear those clicks/pops when S2 was connected to Benchmark DAC2 which acted as pre-amplifier. Any thoughts/ideas ? Thanks !!! It seems that you are the first one in this community to receive this DAC. Looking forward to seeing other audiophiles opinion. Link to comment
arcman Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 When using as a dac only, can the volume be switched to fixed? Link to comment
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