More Disruptive Schiit (Vidar)

[Corvo]

I wouldn't say so. Maybe it is maybe not. I leave it to more professional people to judge. Personally I'm rather careful by judging products based on negative posts in forums. Simply because more people (like me) with problems share their experiences than others who are happy. Just my point of view. 

[Brinkman Ship]

2 minutes ago, Corvo said:

I wouldn't say so. Maybe it is maybe not. I leave it to more professional people to judge. Personally I'm rather careful by judging products based on negative posts in forums. Simply because more people (like me) with problems share their experiences than others who are happy. Just my point of view. 

But there more than a few posts about various issues including buzzing...not just here..

[jadeboy]

Just update... the Vidar has issues with ground loop noise (buss, hiss, random static).

 

With my NAD 3020D, it was dead silent.

 

Installed a ground loop noise isolator from Amazon - it's dead silent now.

[Corvo]

Hi jade, did you only have buzz through your speakers or directly from the amp? 

[jadeboy]

2 minutes ago, Corvo said:

Hi jade, did you only have buzz through your speakers or directly from the amp? 

 

It was from the speakers.

 

Computer -> Chord Mojo Dac -> Vidar.

 

The Chord Mojo could be off, but as long it was plugged into the computer with the Chord USB cable, the speaker would have buzz, random static noise.

 

 

[jitae55]

Hi all,

Just a little feedback.

Transformer buzz from my Vidar has dropped to being barely audible with my ear to the chassis.

This is not due to any action on my part - however mains voltage has dropped from 246-259 volts to a consistently lower 238-244 volts.

This effect would be consistent with transformer saturation at the higher voltage as a cause of the buzz.

Maybe someone from U.E. reads C.A..

I don't think I can blame Schiit for U.E.'s poor spec. - although I would be interested to know the max mains voltage Schiit would typically design for.

So, back to music - Anesthetize; soaring, dynamic, driving; wish I could drum like that.

 

Cheers

 

[Corvo]

Hi jitae, thx for your update. Is there an explanation for the drop? Because I suspect something similar in my house too. It might be, that  because of the Vidar I got a bit more observant for hum and buzz. But lately I hear other devices doing noises as well. I can definitely tell, that our wall sockets are poorly made and wouldn't be surprised if all the rest behind the wall was the same poor quality. 

 

Btw, I've been emailing with shiit a lot. Before the buy and after. Basically I was only told to check the obvious things for the buzz. At one point I mentioned, that judging from the posts on the web, there must be other people having the same issues. If he could tell how they solved it. No response. That was about 2 weeks ago...

[Corvo]

Voltage is fine. But I tried something else. I unscrewed the screws on top, switched it on and the buzz was definitely less. As soon as the top cover connects completely to the unit by tighten the screws, the vibrations get louder. So I put some felting between the unit and cover and the buzz was reduced to - I would say - a normal transformer noise. The Problem consitst because of the holes on top, that's where it's the loudest, obviously. 

 

I had to remove the felting for security reasons as it is flammable. So I will have to find some fireproof and thin material to glue between cover and unit and then one problem should be gone to some extend. Will contact schiit first to check, if that's a problem regarding the grounding, but I doubt it. Does anybody know? The other one is a ground loop I still have with Saga...

 

Still, I am a bit surprised by such a poor design....

[Ralf11]

it sounds like it was designed by EEs with no input from MEs...

 

an auto parts store will have various types of "liquid" gaskets - they are liquid until they set up and form a gel - might work

[labjr]

I would use butyl rubber sound deadening sheets they make for cars. You cut a piece and peel and stick it.

[rando]

Silicon mat (heat resistant not anti-slip) might be an easy pre-cut solution.  You'll want to be careful choosing a glue since you will be breathing the same air the amp radiates heat into.  There are non-metallic crush washers that might be useful as well.   

[jitae55]

Hi Corvo,

re the drop in mains voltage, I presume it is the power company (U.E.) finally responding to my complaint (November 2017!) re the voltage being too high - although I have not received notification of this.

I still intend to build the DC blocking circuit (parts finally arrived) - I've read elsewhere that blocking mains DC may be of sonic benefit even in the absence of overt transformer buzz.

 

[Corvo]

Another Update: The silicone between amp and cover didn't help much. The noise changed, but it's still annoying. So I called a technician and sent him a picture of the inside of vidar.  Before paying the shipping to the US, i rather pay somebody to fix it. He spent 10 minutes on the phone explaning me lots of things. As a conclusion he told me, that he fixes amps and transfomers every day, but he was surprised to see an amp built like that in 2018. From his point of view, this is not a quality product. Even the cheapest amps with those kind of transformers are usually silent. He suggested to return the amp as the buzz should not be acceptable. Or at least to let me send over a new transformer. Otherwise it would cost me a lot of money (not as much as vidar itself, but close to it) to replace it with a new transformer.

 

As I mentioned before, I still have another buzz out of the speakers, which, fairly speaking, is hardly audiable from my sitting place, but it is. And I know there are a lot of happy listeners out there using shiit products. But personally I'm getting to the same conclusion as the friendly technician, that the built quality of shiit devices might not be the best....

[Brinkman Ship]

1 hour ago, Corvo said:

Another Update: The silicone between amp and cover didn't help much. The noise changed, but it's still annoying. So I called a technician and sent him a picture of the inside of vidar.  Before paying the shipping to the US, i rather pay somebody to fix it. He spent 10 minutes on the phone explaning me lots of things. As a conclusion he told me, that he fixes amps and transfomers every day, but he was surprised to see an amp built like that in 2018. From his point of view, this is not a quality product. Even the cheapest amps with those kind of transformers are usually silent. He suggested to return the amp as the buzz should not be acceptable. Or at least to let me send over a new transformer. Otherwise it would cost me a lot of money (not as much as vidar itself, but close to it) to replace it with a new transformer.

 

As I mentioned before, I still have another buzz out of the speakers, which, fairly speaking, is hardly audiable from my sitting place, but it is. And I know there are a lot of happy listeners out there using shiit products. But personally I'm getting to the same conclusion as the friendly technician, that the built quality of shiit devices might not be the best....

I then repeat what I said on this thread weeks ago..the Vidar is not a well designed product, and flawed in execution. Excellent concept, and in the end hats off to Schiit, this was pretty ambitious, but they laid an egg..?

[GUTB]

Schiit is infamous for releasing faulty gear. The thing I love about them is how they NEVER admit to it and quietly release fixed versions later on. They seem to go through a lot of effort to cut corners to the utmost to retain the key features they want to sell. The Vidar is a class A/B high current low noise amp for relative peanuts, but that seems to come at the expense of certain niceties and level of quality a high end audio buyer expects.

[Ralf11]

3 hours ago, Corvo said:

Another Update: The silicone between amp and cover didn't help much. The noise changed, but it's still annoying. So I called a technician and sent him a picture of the inside of vidar.  Before paying the shipping to the US, i rather pay somebody to fix it. He spent 10 minutes on the phone explaning me lots of things. As a conclusion he told me, that he fixes amps and transfomers every day, but he was surprised to see an amp built like that in 2018. From his point of view, this is not a quality product. Even the cheapest amps with those kind of transformers are usually silent. He suggested to return the amp as the buzz should not be acceptable. Or at least to let me send over a new transformer. Otherwise it would cost me a lot of money (not as much as vidar itself, but close to it) to replace it with a new transformer.

 

As I mentioned before, I still have another buzz out of the speakers, which, fairly speaking, is hardly audiable from my sitting place, but it is. And I know there are a lot of happy listeners out there using shiit products. But personally I'm getting to the same conclusion as the friendly technician, that the built quality of shiit devices might not be the best....

 

can you post photos of the inside showing the problem areas?

[Corvo]

I sent the pic from the official site. Problem area is the transformer and its noise. Or am I missing your point? 

[Ralf11]

sent it where?

 

a pic might show where some areas could be reinforced, or modified

[Corvo]

to the technician. Personally I know too little about these things. Only thing I know is that it makes noise. 

[biosailor]

On 07/04/2018 at 8:28 PM, Brinkman Ship said:

I have been watching this thread for a while...and correct me if I am wrong, but can the Vidar just be considred

a poorly designed product? Great concept, very compromised execution??? I say this as a Schiit fan.

Just the same here: I've been following the discussion with regards to Vidar humming. I must say, though, that I am not a Schiit user, but I ran into the same problem when ordering a power amp (not from Schiit). It arrived and all was fine, except that there was this low-level 50-60 Hz hum. Not too much disturbing, but once I picked it up, I heard it constantly. Very annoying! I went to different newsgroups for help. Ground loop hum was the most mentioned issue. I doubted that, but tried various things recommended for getting rid of the presumed ground loop. Without any success. So I went back and re-connected my previous, relatively cheap class D amp, and the hum was gone altogether! I went further and borrowed a friend's power amp (this time class A/B) and again, no hum, clean as a whistle.

This just tells me that there are amps with an inherent fault, period. Trying to fiddle around with such faulty amps becomes very frustrating. I learnt one thing: I try to avoid internet vendors. If there is a problem with an equipment, bring it back to the local dealer and he/she has to take care of the problems. It's difficult having these things solved via internet companies.

[Corvo]

@biosailor, I totally agree with you. For me, this has been a hobby for years. I like to try new gear an have always been aware of the risk when buying online. I had something like a dozen different amps over the years. Some of them from online vendors. Cheap Class D amps and tube amps from china, used amps, amps from known online vendors in europe or from a local store. I kept selling them after a few years to try something new. After having followed Schiit for years, I gave them a try because I liked their philosophy, the design and prices. While totally happy with the SQ (actually, some of the best I had), this time and 1st time in all these years, I encountered a problem like this. Well, schiit happens. My goal is to find a way to make that damn thing almost silent or at least not audiable from where I sit. That's all I want, because I plan to keep this amp if possible. But I know for sure, that these 5 items from schiit will definitely be the last I purchased. I will try to keep in contact with schiit and I even should ask them for replacement. If it wasn't for the long and expensive way back to the US. But for now, they don't answer to my emails anymore, which is not the way business should be done. But maybe there is a run on them from other unhappy listeners...who knows.

[Filipe]

My 2 cents: I have seriously considered buying a Vidar, some time ago. After reading the first posts related to the Vidar hum issue, I have asked for some explanations here on this forum, namely from Jason. Never got them. Jason never replied, and all I got was some angry replies from some hard-fans Schiit supporters. For all of you neutral people, as me, I ended up buying an Emotiva Bas-x 300. That was the best move I could ever have made. Dead silent, powerful and highly musical. No hum at all!!! Therefore, I  humbly suggest you look for an Emotiva amp. No affiliations at all!

 

 

[Brinkman Ship]

3 hours ago, biosailor said:

Just the same here: I've been following the discussion with regards to Vidar humming. I must say, though, that I am not a Schiit user, but I ran into the same problem when ordering a power amp (not from Schiit). It arrived and all was fine, except that there was this low-level 50-60 Hz hum. Not too much disturbing, but once I picked it up, I heard it constantly. Very annoying! I went to different newsgroups for help. Ground loop hum was the most mentioned issue. I doubted that, but tried various things recommended for getting rid of the presumed ground loop. Without any success. So I went back and re-connected my previous, relatively cheap class D amp, and the hum was gone altogether! I went further and borrowed a friend's power amp (this time class A/B) and again, no hum, clean as a whistle.

This just tells me that there are amps with an inherent fault, period. Trying to fiddle around with such faulty amps becomes very frustrating. I learnt one thing: I try to avoid internet vendors. If there is a problem with an equipment, bring it back to the local dealer and he/she has to take care of the problems. It's difficult having these things solved via internet companies.

 

I have no issues from buying from online vendors..and I think the Freay preamp is an absolute home run...

But I agree with you completely trying to wrestle performance out of a screwed up amp is about as fruitful as banging your head against the wall. All the DIY fix it tricks are a waste of time.

 

A power amp should be quiet. Period...class A, B, C,D or tube...you should be hearing music, not noise of any kind.

[Corvo]

Filipe, fun fact: Emotiva was one of 3 options I considered buying....

 

I will keep trying to get some more explanation from schiit. But from the moment I asked what all the other users with this problem did to solve it, they stopped answering my emails. And I did not give them schiit because of the buzz or wrote dozens of emails...I simply asked a question or two. 

[vmartell22]

8 minutes ago, Filipe said:

My 2 cents: I have seriously considered buying a Vidar, some time ago. After reading the first posts related to the Vidar hum issue, I have asked for some explanations here on this forum, namely from Jason. Never got them. Jason never replied, and all I got was some angry replies from some hard-fans Schiit supporters. For all of you neutral people, as me, I ended up buying an Emotiva Bas-x 300. That was the best move I could ever have made. Dead silent, powerful and highly musical. No hum at all!!! Therefore, I  humbly suggest you look for an Emotiva amp. No affiliations at all!

 

 

 

What did Schiit say when you emailed them directly? (I think they have an info address - but I think they even answer questions on their customer support address)

 

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