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More Disruptive Schiit (Vidar)


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Well, it looks like all the Schiit hype is nothing but that: a hype. When it comes down to the nitty gritty, I hear no Jason. I hear no firm believers of the company to stand behind it.

 

Jason, with all due respect, the eclipse has long been gone. You have been back at work, for sure, and reported back, but it has been an one-off report. And I wonder why the reviews of the Vidar are taking so long to come out, even if they have been announced long time ago from several supporters (Computer Audiophile and DARKO come to mind). Something must be wrong with your Vidar.

 

I understand that. Me too, I run a company. Sometimes, things don’t work out as well as we expect, with a new product. But that does not mean we have to run and hide.

 

Think i’ll be much better taking a (safe) bet on one of the established brands. Rotel and Parasound immediately springs to mind. One of them will probably take my hard-earned money. These are no bullschiit companies.

 

Sorry, Jason, for all this sour comment, but I am deeply disappointed with all the Vidar   situation, and in particular the lack of information concerning it.

 

All the best,

 

Filipe.

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filipe, this could be the only product they're having a problem with. I have a bifrost dac that I like very much with zero problems and a 5 year warranty. I wouldn't give up entirely on the company but instead wait until all the bugs are ironed out on vidar revision 1.1 or some such designation. Schiit could be having some problems with specs from their manufacturer of circuit boards causing some of these problems. I do believe they should have sent out a 100 units to beta testers first though for such a new product.

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I don't understand what you are upset about.  What response are you expecting from Jason?  If you are expecting "professional" reviews they could be a long wait or never.  I own Schiit Eitr, Freya, Yggy and 2 Vidars.  The only one that has "professional" reviews is the Yggy.  I based my purchases on info from audio forums, including this one. I have been more than satisfied with every purchase.  My vidars are performing flawlessly driving my Spatial M3 Triode Masters (mono mode). 

 

While waiting for CA's review:  http://www.audiophool.org/blog/index.php/2017/08/30/schiit-vidar-power-amplifier/

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Filipe said:

Well, it looks like all the Schiit hype is nothing but that: a hype. When it comes down to the nitty gritty, I hear no Jason. I hear no firm believers of the company to stand behind it.

 

Jason, with all due respect, the eclipse has long been gone. You have been back at work, for sure, and reported back, but it has been an one-off report. And I wonder why the reviews of the Vidar are taking so long to come out, even if they have been announced long time ago from several supporters (Computer Audiophile and DARKO come to mind). Something must be wrong with your Vidar.

 

I understand that. Me too, I run a company. Sometimes, things don’t work out as well as we expect, with a new product. But that does not mean we have to run and hide.

 

Think i’ll be much better taking a (safe) bet on one of the established brands. Rotel and Parasound immediately springs to mind. One of them will probably take my hard-earned money. These are no bullschiit companies.

 

Sorry, Jason, for all this sour comment, but I am deeply disappointed with all the Vidar   situation, and in particular the lack of information concerning it.

 

All the best,

 

Filipe.

 

What are you taking about man? How is Jason responsible for 3rd party reviews? He already responded what was wrong with Chris's amps and replaced them. And they updated their testing regime to cover his case. This is what you want from a company like this. They have a 5 year warranty as well, so what are you worried about?

 

I've had a Vidar since 2 days after it came out and it works great - zero issues. And I love the sound of this thing. Saga + Vidar beat 3 other integrated amps I owned, 2 of which cost much more than than the Schiit stuff did. They have all been sold except one, which is in the process of going out the door. This is a great amp for $699. I would love to know anything that even comes close for twice the money.

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1 hour ago, Speed Racer said:

The Vidar is a great solid state power amplifier especially when you consider the $699 price tag. The bass is phenomenal! The midrange and upper end is very good too. With new power amplifiers you might have to go to $3.5K to $5K to be able to hear a noticeably better sound.

 

Finally something about which we agree :~)

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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I have had my Vidar for a couple of weeks now.  I love the sound and have not had one issue with it.  I own several pieces of Schiit; 2 - Bifrosts (non multi bit), 1 - Asgard, and a Modi/Magni stack.  Oh, and a Fulla 2.  Love them all.  Great sound and value for the money.  Will be ordering a Freya to use with the Vidar shortly.  Currently using a older Forte' preamp with the Vidar.

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9 hours ago, Chui said:

I have had my Vidar for a couple of weeks now.  I love the sound and have not had one issue with it.  I own several pieces of Schiit; 2 - Bifrosts (non multi bit), 1 - Asgard, and a Modi/Magni stack.  Oh, and a Fulla 2.  Love them all.  Great sound and value for the money.  Will be ordering a Freya to use with the Vidar shortly.  Currently using a older Forte' preamp with the Vidar.

 

My Asgard 2 is by far the best headphone amp I have ever heard. Wide bandwidth, pure Class A, high-end power supply, and a very wide output swing. I drive a pair of HiFiMan HE-1000 with them. Might seem strange (as it certainly did to the people at HiFiMan) to power a $3000 pair of headphones with a $250 headphone amp, but it beats any other dedicated headphone amp I've ever tried including several very expensive ones from Woo! I'll bet the Valhalla2, Lyr2, and Mjolnir2 are even better. And of course, the Yggy is probably, easily, the best DAC under ten grand! In my view, Schiit is exactly what high-end audio has needed for many years. Quality, affordable, no-frills components that let the average Joe (financially speaking) enjoy high-end sonics. Sure there are enough nouveau riche people in the world to keep the likes of MSB, dCS, D'Agustino, Pass, Wilson Audio, etc. going, But now we of more modest means can sample near state-of-the-audio-art as well.

George

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I really enjoy my Asgard 2 as well.  Due to work, life ect I do not get the 'alone' time I would like to sit and relax and listen to my headphones.  I do not have the quality of cans that you do, I have a pair of Mr Speakers Alpha Dog and a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 880.  But they both sound really good through the Asgard 2.  I am feeding the Asgard 2 via my Bifrost (non multi bit) from my iMac.  I really enjoy all of the Schiit gear I do have.  Am thinking of getting a Gungnir for one of my systems replacing an older PS Audio DAC.

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  • 1 month later...

I recently bought an Yggy, Saga, and Vidar. I'm very happy with the Yggy and Saga, and the Vidar would sound good too, except I'm getting an annoying buzz from the amp itself.

 

It seems others have also had this issue. Did anyone ever manage to solve it?

 

The buzz happens even with only power and speakers connected to the Vidar, and no interconnects. If I connect it to the Saga, the buzz from the amp itself doesn't change, but a similar hum then also comes out of the speakers.

 

I've tried different wall outlets, with and without power strips, and different speakers, speaker cables and RCA cables, to no avail. I even tried shutting down power to the whole house except for one outlet. Even with only Vidar connected, I still had buzz.

 

The only thing I've found that's made a difference, is plugging Saga and Vidar into different wall outlets from each other. Then the hum from the speakers is only audible from about 1 meter away instead of from 3 meters. The buzz from Vidar itself is unaffected though.

 

I understand from this thread and other places, that DC offset on the power lines could possibly be a cause of amp hum. It was then pointed out that Vidar doesn't use a toroidal transformer, but an EI core one. So, could it still be affected by DC offset?

 

I'm not sure what else to try. If I can't find a solution, I will probably have to return the amp, as the buzz is too much to handle in my mostly nearfield setup.

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8 minutes ago, Vrugdush said:

I recently bought an Yggy, Saga, and Vidar. I'm very happy with the Yggy and Saga, and the Vidar would sound good too, except I'm getting an annoying buzz from the amp itself.

 

It seems others have also had this issue. Did anyone ever manage to solve it?

 

The buzz happens even with only power and speakers connected to the Vidar, and no interconnects. If I connect it to the Saga, the buzz from the amp itself doesn't change, but a similar hum then also comes out of the speakers.

 

I've tried different wall outlets, with and without power strips, and different speakers, speaker cables and RCA cables, to no avail. I even tried shutting down power to the whole house except for one outlet. Even with only Vidar connected, I still had buzz.

 

The only thing I've found that's made a difference, is plugging Saga and Vidar into different wall outlets from each other. Then the hum from the speakers is only audible from about 1 meter away instead of from 3 meters. The buzz from Vidar itself is unaffected though.

 

I understand from this thread and other places, that DC offset on the power lines could possibly be a cause of amp hum. It was then pointed out that Vidar doesn't use a toroidal transformer, but an EI core one. So, could it still be affected by DC offset?

 

I'm not sure what else to try. If I can't find a solution, I will probably have to return the amp, as the buzz is too much to handle in my mostly nearfield setup.

 

Tell us you have contacted Schiit support already right??

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I have indeed, although it's a bit tricky, since I bought my gear from an international distributor.

 

I told them everything I've told you, and Tom E from Schiit was quite helpful and patient, but ultimately he couldn't say whether or not the buzzing was indicative of a defective unit. Neither could the international distributor.

 

I'm hoping someone has a solution, so I don't have to send it back, only to perhaps be told it's working normally.

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1 hour ago, Vrugdush said:

I have indeed, although it's a bit tricky, since I bought my gear from an international distributor.

 

I told them everything I've told you, and Tom E from Schiit was quite helpful and patient, but ultimately he couldn't say whether or not the buzzing was indicative of a defective unit. Neither could the international distributor.

 

I'm hoping someone has a solution, so I don't have to send it back, only to perhaps be told it's working normally.

 

Had a similar problem which I posted about here.

No solution was found. I contacted Schiit and having posted my Vidar to them twice for testing / repair I was sent a rather abrupt email informing me a refund was on my way and leaving me no choice as to what I want to do ... not exactly what I expected, really, as I did have high expectations and had only just started collecting my Schiit system. Freya was already in the rack, and Gungnir or Yggy were soon to follow. But not any more after my Vidar adventure. I got rid of the Freya as well and am now enjoying a very quiet system from a different manufacturer.

 

Jason did mention on his followers' thread on headfi that buzz from the speakers is not unexpected and to certain extent should be accepted - I disagree on that - the humm from the transformer and the buzz from the speakers are certainly not what I want to hear in any quiet passage. My fault there's plenty of these in the music I listen to.

 

It's really a pity though as Vidar did sound rather good and I would certainly have kept it if it were not for the buzz. But if you look at the cost of quality audio transformers you'll see that you're looking at 150-170 euro per 600va toroid. And that's more than 20% of the total price of the amp - that's just the transformer. To sell the Vidar for 700 means savings are necessary - so that's what you get when you save too much I guess. I'd happily pay 100 or 200 more for a Vidar if it had a quality silent transformer in it.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Vrugdush said:

I have indeed, although it's a bit tricky, since I bought my gear from an international distributor.

 

I told them everything I've told you, and Tom E from Schiit was quite helpful and patient, but ultimately he couldn't say whether or not the buzzing was indicative of a defective unit. Neither could the international distributor.

 

I'm hoping someone has a solution, so I don't have to send it back, only to perhaps be told it's working normally.

 

I have a Schiit Saga and Vidar and Modi multibit DAC. Audible hum through the speakers from the Saga can be caused by a faulty tube. Did you try running it in passive mode without the tube?

 

The transformer hum from the Vidar is audible  from about half a meter (maybe a meter if it's really quiet). I use a DC blocker against AC power DC offset , but that doesn't change the level of the transformer hum. I only had hum from the Vidar that was clearly audible through the speakers once, when I used 3 meter long RCA interconnects  between Saga and Vidar running partly alongside a power chord.

 

Finally, did you try lifting the AC ground of all audio equipment? If that helps then you have a ground loop somewhere. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Abtr said:

 

I have a Schiit Saga and Vidar and Modi multibit DAC. Audible hum through the speakers from the Saga can be caused by a faulty tube. Did you try running it in passive mode without the tube?

 

The same humm with or without any pre or sources connected to Vidar. Nothing to do with tubes.

 

9 minutes ago, Abtr said:

The transformer hum from the Vidar is audible  from about half a meter (maybe a meter if it's really quiet). I use a DC blocker against AC power DC offset , but that doesn't change the level of the transformer hum. I only had hum from the Vidar that was clearly audible through the speakers once, when I used 3 meter long RCA interconnects  between Saga and Vidar running partly alongside a power chord.

 

I could hear hum from my listening position - 2 meters from speakers during quiet passages. I use a DC blocker anyway for all my audio equipment. Even tried a power conditioner from a buddy, costing 2 or 3 x the Vidar - no joy.

 

9 minutes ago, Abtr said:

Finally, did you try lifting the AC ground of all audio equipment? If that helps then you have a ground loop somewhere. 

 

 

No. And I'm not going to - 230V can kill. 

 

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This hum issue is frankly unacceptable regardless of price. I had a Emotiva BasX that cost less than half the price and it didn’t hum.

 

When I hear the slightest spurious noise coming from my speakers I basically flip out and relentless track down the problem — doesnt everyone react this way? Do the Schiit cultists on Head-Fi actually make excuses for this?

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Thanks for the replies all. That's some good news and some bad.

 

44 minutes ago, Abtr said:

The transformer hum from the Vidar is audible  from about half a meter (maybe a meter if it's really quiet). I use a DC blocker against AC power DC offset , but that doesn't change the level of the transformer hum.

 

30 minutes ago, dom said:

I could hear hum from my listening position - 2 meters from speakers during quiet passages. I use a DC blocker anyway for all my audio equipment. Even tried a power conditioner from a buddy, costing 2 or 3 x the Vidar - no joy.

 

Seems the Vidar's transformer hum is unlikely to be helped by a DC offset blocker, but maybe the hum from the speakers is avoidable...

 

46 minutes ago, Abtr said:

I only had hum from the Vidar that was clearly audible through the speakers once, when I used 3 meter long RCA interconnects  between Saga and Vidar running partly alongside a power chord.

 

My interconnects are rather short, but I'm still getting speaker hum. I'll have to continue experimenting for a bit. I don't think I have too much gain, since I'm using Saga rather than Freya.

 

48 minutes ago, Abtr said:

Audible hum through the speakers from the Saga can be caused by a faulty tube. Did you try running it in passive mode without the tube?

 

I didn't try removing the tube, as I didn't think it was safe to run Saga without it. I notice no difference in the level of hum between passive and tube buffer modes. I also don't notice any hum in my headphones when running the Saga into my Jotunheim, so I assumed the tube was fine. I even tried using just the Jotunheim as a preamp into Vidar, and it still caused speaker hum. Maybe slightly less than with Saga, but it was hard to tell.

 

52 minutes ago, Abtr said:

Finally, did you try lifting the AC ground of all audio equipment? If that helps then you have a ground loop somewhere.

 

I agree with dom; this doesn't seem safe. Surely the equipment is grounded for a reason. I wouldn't even know how to go about this.

 

Like I said earlier though, I did notice less hum through my speakers when plugging Saga and Vidar into wall sockets that were far away from each other, with the help of an extension cord. Both wall outlets were still grounded, though.

 

1 hour ago, dom said:

 I'd happily pay 100 or 200 more for a Vidar if it had a quality silent transformer in it.

 

Agreed.

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Here's the thing. I know Schiit amps. The only one I liked and ended up keeping was the Mjolnir 2 -- after pairing with some fine NOS tubes. The Ragnarok was just too bright, the Valhalla 2 was just much worse than the M2, the Asgard 2 was underpowered, and the Magnis and Valis are just lo-fi -- better than Chinese shovelware junk, but not by that much.

 

Let's be real for a second -- a $700 made-in-America class A/B can't and won't compete with my $5.5K Linnenbergs with their nice NOS Toshiba FETs, ultra high bandwdith, high speed and low noise. I know that intellectually. But...damn, I can't help but think "what if the Vidar is almost as good?" I could flip the Linnenbergs for $4K easily, and pocket the $3.3K difference. But NOT if there's a hum from the speakers, that's just crazy.

 

Edit: Oh, and I forget the Joutenheim. Poor performance with my TH900. Expected much better due to the price and specs.

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2 hours ago, Vrugdush said:

...

I agree with dom; this doesn't seem safe. Surely the equipment is grounded for a reason. I wouldn't even know how to go about this.

...

Where I live, ungrounded AC wall outlets are quite common. :) If, with your grounded equipment, a (potentially dangerous ) short to chassis exists somewhere, then your central GFCI would have tripped. Since this is apparently not the case, it's quite save to temporarily lift AC ground of all audio gear, just as a diagnostic procedure.

 

To lift ground, you can use a so called cheater plug, AC ground lifter or three-prong/two-prong adapter:

https://www.amazon.com/Grounding-Converter-Electrical-Industrial-Appliances/dp/B01IA9UERG

Connect a power strip to it and connect all audio equipment to the power strip and see if hum from the speakers improves or disappears..

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12 minutes ago, Abtr said:

To lift ground, you can use a so called cheater plug, AC ground lifter or three-prong/two-prong adapter:

https://www.amazon.com/Grounding-Converter-Electrical-Industrial-Appliances/dp/B01IA9UERG

Connect a power strip to it and connect all audio equipment to the power strip and see if hum from the speakers improves or disappears..

 

Thanks, that looks nifty. Unfortunately this particular item wouldn't work, since  I'm in Sweden. We use 230 V at 50 Hz power and Type F/Schuko plugs. There's probably something equivalent though. I'll look into it. This is my first serious power amp. My previous one was an old Pioneer integrated stereo receiver, that used an ungrounded plug, so I've never had to deal with ground loops before.

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