Zorlac Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 I have two Vidars in black both plugged into a Brickwall surge protector (which features isolated outlets per my understanding). Can you explain more about DC offset? Is this a problem with my electrical or the amp(s)? Link to comment
Zorlac Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 I think this explains it well?http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/amplifier-distortion-dc-offset-and-you.5634/ Link to comment
Speed Racer Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Yes, that link is as good as any. Typically, surge suppressors don't block DC offset. That requires specialized circuitry or a transformer. Link to comment
Zorlac Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Maybe I should look into something like the CMX-2 from Emotiva to remove DC Offset? Link to comment
esldude Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 8 minutes ago, Zorlac said: Maybe I should look into something like the CMX-2 from Emotiva to remove DC Offset? Why don't you put a multi-meter set to DC volts on them first and see if you have any DC offset. Just set it to DC and read across the two binding posts of the speaker. While you are at it, switch it to AC volts with no signal going through the system and see what AC volts you read. How useful that is will depend a bit on your meter, but would be helpful maybe to see how much the buzz level is in your setup. The link above btw is referring to DC offset at the amplifier output to the speakers. The Emotiva unit would remove it from your AC power lines. Two different things. Finally why not plug your amps directly into the wall without the surge protectors to see if that makes it diminish the buzz or go away. unbalanced output 1 And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
Zorlac Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 I tried the amps directly to the wall. No difference. I also tried a ground lift (to see if this is a ground loop issue). No difference. I will try the multi-meter test this weekend if I can find mine or see if a friend has one. Thank you for your help! Link to comment
ShawnC Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 5 hours ago, Zorlac said: Maybe I should look into something like the CMX-2 from Emotiva to remove DC Offset? For a while I had a very faint hum coming through my speakers. I also would get a big buzz when my subwoofer was plugged into the same outlets (most likely the dreaded 60hz buzz) that everything else was plugged into. I have a Monster power conditioner but that didn't solve any of the buzzing. I solved the subwoofer problem by running a 50 ft extension cord to other side of the basement (old house, old electrical). Not sure what to do about the hum, I ordered the CMX-2 from Emotiva. I plugged my main amp into one outlet and the power conditioner into the other. This did the trick, all hums and buzzes were eliminated. I did spend a lot of time making sure cables were not parallel to each other and what not. Overall I was very satisfied. I Do think this older house has electrical issues, so I might not have needed this product If I was in a new home. Just my 2 cents. Computer setup - Roon/Qobuz - PS Audio P5 Regenerator - HIFI Rose 250A Streamer - Emotiva XPA-2 Harbeth P3ESR XD - Rel R-528 Sub Comfy Chair - Schitt Jotunheim - Meze Audio Empyrean w/Mitch Barnett's Accurate Sound FilterSet Link to comment
Zorlac Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Okay..here are the multi-meter results: AC Left speaker = 0.003V Right speaker = 0.003V DC Left speaker = 5mV Right speaker = 0mV I hear the buzz in both speakers when I put my ear up to the cones. Can anyone tell me what these readings mean and what they should be? Link to comment
esldude Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Zorlac said: Okay..here are the multi-meter results: AC Left speaker = 0.003V Right speaker = 0.003V DC Left speaker = 5mV Right speaker = 0mV I hear the buzz in both speakers when I put my ear up to the cones. Can anyone tell me what these readings mean and what they should be? The AC value is a bit high. For instance if you had 90 db speakers at 8 ohms, then 2.83 volts would output 90 db. The ratio of your AC value to that is about -59db. So you would expect some AC signal level at about 31 db. Which would be audible. Of course it may not be the amp's fault. It will amplify any noise fed to it from upstream. One way or another however I would want lower AC output than the .3 mV you are showing. This isn't out of line with hearing the buzz when your ears are close to the speaker. If you turn everything off, and then turn on just the amp do you get a lower value? Does the buzz go away? Also might help to know your signal path. What source, to what DAC and/or preamp before going into the amp. And what speakers are you using. The DC offset is fine. Rule of thumb is 50 mV or less. Some say 25 mV or less. Either way your DC value isn't a worry. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
Hoang Nam Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Any video clip about the performance of Vidar, please share? Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted August 22, 2017 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 22, 2017 Good news. The new pair of @schiit Vidar amplifiers arrived today. I connected them to my TAD CR1s with three different pairs of speaker cables and they work perfect. I can't reproduce the issue I previously reported with the first pair I received. Now, on to the fun :~) dtb300, dinamanu and schiit 2 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Speed Racer Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 10 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Good news. The new pair of @schiit Vidar amplifiers arrived today. I connected them to my TAD CR1s with three different pairs of speaker cables and they work perfect. I can't reproduce the issue I previously reported with the first pair I received. Now, on to the fun :~) This begs the question: Did Schiit make a change in the Vidar or did you have two bad Vidar amps? I would be surprised to hear you happened to get two bad amps. Johnseye 1 Link to comment
crenca Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 15 minutes ago, Speed Racer said: This begs the question: Did Schiit make a change in the Vidar or did you have two bad Vidar amps? I would be surprised to hear you happened to get two bad amps. I suspect the answer is yes and no. A "change" in that a similar part from one supplier that is not up to spec or simply not working out has already, this early in production, been swapped for another. Is this a fundamental design change? Not really. I am coming to the conclusion that you don't want to purchase the first year of anything. This is a well known axiom in the auto world - never buy the first year of a new model or fundamental design change of an existing one. Indeed, I have personally suffered the consequences of breaking this rule myself. Unless you are "ok" with being an early adopter that is.... Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math! Link to comment
mav52 Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 1 hour ago, crenca said: I suspect the answer is yes and no. A "change" in that a similar part from one supplier that is not up to spec or simply not working out has already, this early in production, been swapped for another. Is this a fundamental design change? Not really. I am coming to the conclusion that you don't want to purchase the first year of anything. This is a well known axiom in the auto world - never buy the first year of a new model or fundamental design change of an existing one. Indeed, I have personally suffered the consequences of breaking this rule myself. Unless you are "ok" with being an early adopter that is.... Buying first year, as long as there is a warranty and the return policy isn't some dark company ultra fine hidden print/secret, I'm good to go. The Truth Is Out There Link to comment
Speed Racer Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 I have a Vidar that was shipped out the first day they were available. I would sure like to know if I have a product that might have a problem with speaker cables with particular characteristics..... Link to comment
Paddlefoot Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 16 minutes ago, Speed Racer said: I have a Vidar that was shipped out the first day they were available. I would sure like to know if I have a product that might have a problem with speaker cables with particular characteristics..... I am with you Speed Racer, sure would like to know if the changes made would also effect the SQ ( for the better ) I haven't had any issue with them at all, they sound great with the Vandersteen 2ce. Link to comment
schiit Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Good news. The new pair of @schiit Vidar amplifiers arrived today. I connected them to my TAD CR1s with three different pairs of speaker cables and they work perfect. I can't reproduce the issue I previously reported with the first pair I received. Now, on to the fun :~) Good to hear, but weird. I'll report back on what I find with the other two amps when I'm back in the office on Thursday. rando 1 Link to comment
Zorlac Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Schiit is going to replace mine too. Link to comment
Hoang Nam Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 7 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Good news. The new pair of @schiit Vidar amplifiers arrived today. I connected them to my TAD CR1s with three different pairs of speaker cables and they work perfect. I can't reproduce the issue I previously reported with the first pair I received. Now, on to the fun :~) Great news. Hope you have enough time to do the shooting video review. Thanks a lot and looking forward Link to comment
rickca Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 7 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Good news. The new pair of @schiit Vidar amplifiers arrived today. I connected them to my TAD CR1s with three different pairs of speaker cables and they work perfect. Schiit is going to owe you a really good dinner. Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs i7-6700K/Windows 10 --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's Link to comment
mazuly Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Hello I am presently running Audirvana->Mac mini-> oppo HA-1-> old Rotel RMB-1075->B&W 805 D3. Any comment if you think I would get major improvement with the 2 Vidar run in mono? Thanks Maziar 2 Channel: Mac mini with Audirvana + & A+ Remote -> Netgear AC170 -> microRendu -> Chord Mojo -> oppo HA-1 -> Arcam P49 -> B&W 804 D3 5 Channel: Apple TV/Sony XBR-65A9G -> Rotel RSP-1098 -> oppo HA-1 (bypass) -> Arcam P49 -> B&W 804 D3 (L/R), Arcam P349 -> B&W 804 D3 (C), B&W 805 D3 (RR/LR) Link to comment
Hoang Nam Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 1 hour ago, mazuly said: Hello I am presently running Audirvana->Mac mini-> oppo HA-1-> old Rotel RMB-1075->B&W 805 D3. Any comment if you think I would get major improvement with the 2 Vidar run in mono? Thanks Maziar I think you should purchase 1 Vidar first, then if you feel like still want some more power for your speakers then purchase the 2nd Vidar (I did purchase 1 Vidar and still waiting, I am currently owning Spendor A6 speakers) Link to comment
rando Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Suppose vintage Monster Cables and Nickelback singles are too much of an ask now. I was so amped to see a few more pages of nadir before we shoot up to the zenith. Link to comment
mazuly Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Hoang Nam said: I think you should purchase 1 Vidar first, then if you feel like still want some more power for your speakers then purchase the 2nd Vidar (I did purchase 1 Vidar and still waiting, I am currently owning Spendor A6 speakers) Good idea but how would I know if I need more power? I have been running these speakers with the Rotel amp and have never needed more power since I can play them very loud and still no clipping or distortion (any louder and I wiould gert kicked out of my apartment ) I am looking for best sound quality and was thinking mono amps will porobbaly give me more separation and less crosstalk, XLR connection which would be less noise and of course more power. Any comments? Thanks Maziar 2 Channel: Mac mini with Audirvana + & A+ Remote -> Netgear AC170 -> microRendu -> Chord Mojo -> oppo HA-1 -> Arcam P49 -> B&W 804 D3 5 Channel: Apple TV/Sony XBR-65A9G -> Rotel RSP-1098 -> oppo HA-1 (bypass) -> Arcam P49 -> B&W 804 D3 (L/R), Arcam P349 -> B&W 804 D3 (C), B&W 805 D3 (RR/LR) Link to comment
Hoang Nam Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, mazuly said: Good idea but how would I know if I need more power? I have been running these speakers with the Rotel amp and have never needed more power since I can play them very loud and still no clipping or distortion (any louder and I wiould gert kicked out of my apartment ) I am looking for best sound quality and was thinking mono amps will porobbaly give me more separation and less crosstalk, XLR connection which would be less noise and of course more power. Any comments? Thanks Maziar It's good for you to order 1 Vidar and compare with your current Rotel. Then you will make your decision to get 2nd Vidar or not Link to comment
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