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Experience with power conditioners?


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On 7/22/2017 at 2:03 PM, Ralf11 said:

speaking of the OP...

 

here's my 1st ReStmt. of the questions:

 

1. is a power conditioner likely to add a significant bump in SQ?

 

I'd say that the best answer to that is two fold: 1) If you live in an urban environment; especially an older neighborhood, the cleanliness of your mains supply is highly suspect. If you live in small towns or out in the country, it's likely to be a lot cleaner. Therefore, a power conditioner might help with SQ in the former scenario, but may be of only minor consideration in the latter. 2) The best way to see whether a power conditioner will help with SQ is to put an oscilloscope across your mains outlets and monitor your power at different times of day. If you tend to only listen to your stereo in the evenings and on weekends, then that's when the quality of your mains supply is most important and that is when you should be monitoring your power. Noise on the mains is not constant. It depends on the local load and what is being used by others on the same neighborhood distribution. For instance, I once lived in a neighborhood where one of my close-by neighbors was a ham radio hobbyist. Every time his transmitter was on, the mains line had lots of RF interference. When he was transmitting CW, one could hear the Morse in quiet musical passages!

George

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1 hour ago, gmgraves said:

 

That depends on where you are, I guess. My friend Sergio lives in Rome. He says that his mains is very noisy and he uses a mains filter. Another audiophile friend, Geoff, lives in Silicon Valley these days , but he used to live in London, He said that his mains was very dirty (and I've seen letters to the editor in several British Hi-Fi rags ask what they could do about the dirty mains supply. Also, keep in mind that while British receptacles are very robust and three pronged, most of mainland Europe uses a rather flimsy, two round-pronged receptacle without a ground connection.

 

It's been a while since we've moved from the flimsy thingy.

Now you will find this in most Western European countries :

 

http://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/f/

 

It has one advantage over the UK standard which is the ability to rotate 180° for optimising phase.

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

 

HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256)

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Hi Pam @pam1975

As a start then it my be worth getting  balanced isolation transformer for at least your digital side but try the Amp also?

Or at least get some opinions from some deutsch forums on what they use and local manufacturers. 

Depending on how your set up is, my toroidal isolation transformer  with headphones 1m away I can't hear it.

John Swenson's big Topaz anvil is sound blocked in a box. There are some very modern sound blocking materials and a little ingenuity/ a box would not cause an issue. 

 

A note that my isolation transformer and a 230v Sine wave output UPS improvement was almost matched by the Iso regen and LPS1 in my view of improvement. So other parts of your system may benefit before power upgrading. Isotek plug filter did nothing for me and filtered power strip...

 

Find some German brands and try a second hand unit on Ebay or location ads.?

I don't think there is a cheap euro magic bullet. But you may get lucky and see if certain products work better for you and your electrical issues...

If possible try from friends systems, I have no friends so I can't O.o

 

Good luck

Dave

 

 

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7 hours ago, gmgraves said:

 

That depends on where you are, I guess. My friend Sergio lives in Rome. He says that his mains is very noisy and he uses a mains filter. Another audiophile friend, Geoff, lives in Silicon Valley these days , but he used to live in London, He said that his mains was very dirty (and I've seen letters to the editor in several British Hi-Fi rags ask what they could do about the dirty mains supply. Also, keep in mind that while British receptacles are very robust and three pronged, most of mainland Europe uses a rather flimsy, two round-pronged receptacle without a ground connection.

The schuko plug has an earth connection built in for many, many years now. It is also not flimsy unless your hands are like hammers?

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2 hours ago, One and a half said:

The schuko plug has an earth connection built in for many, many years now. It is also not flimsy unless your hands are like hammers?

 

Matter of opinion, I guess. Must say that I was last in Europe in 2006. I don't of course, know what has transpired since then and even then, my association with European mains connectors was restricted to hotel room mains sockets in Italy, Austria, Bavaria, Switzerland, Provance and the Azure Coast of France. So what was normal and prevalent in Northern Europe, I have no way of knowing.

George

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I ran across this review of a balanced mains isolation transformer in a British audio magazine (Hi-Fi-Choice). It's a fairly decent description of what a mains isolation transformer can do for the sound of one's system. Remember that British Mains is 230 volts, so when we Americans read this, keep in mind that our mains is about half that. The transformer in the review, is listed at £1600.00. That's about US$2100, which isn't cheap!

 

 

BMU 1000 Balanced Mains Transformer Unit

By Russ Andrews

THERE’S BEEN A lot of talk about the value of a balanced mains feed supplying power to your audio system, so I was delighted when I had the opportunity to try one that’s been specifically designed for hi-fi applications. The BMU 1000 is built around a high-quality precisionwound 1KVA balanced toroidal mains transformer (BMT), and is suitable for powering systems with a total power consumption up to 800W.

BMTs are claimed to improve sound quality, lower the noise floor and reduce mains interference, as well as reducing the radiated fields from the audio equipment mains leads. They also eliminate earth loops in the house wiring as they’re effective isolation transformers.

How it works

The mains supply consists of three connections: earth, neutral and live. Live is nominally 230VAC, earth is the earth local to your house (0V), and neutral is the earth at the power station, which can often end up at about 30VAC by the time it reaches your setup. A BMT leaves the earth, but changes live to 115VAC with respect to earth and neutral to 115VAC with respect to earth. However, the live and neutral are 180° out of phase with each other, so you still have 230VAC between live and neutral, but now it’s balanced around the earth – hence a balanced mains transformer. So, the live cables of all your hi-fi are at half the mains voltage with respect to earth. A well-designed transformer will also filter out much of the mains-borne interference before it reaches the transformers in the power supplies of your equipment.

The BMU 1000 UK is fitted with two premium-quality Russ Andrews UK UltraSockets and a 16A IEC input socket to allow you a choice of mains cable. The BMU 1000 takes the standard 220-250VAC mains input and provides an optimised 230VAC balanced output. The internal wiring employs TCX Kimber Kable. Its ABS box measures 210 x 90 x 290mm (WxHxD), so it should quite easily fit on or underneath your rack.

As my system is powered via a distribution block, it is an easy job to unplug it from the mains and connect it to the BMU 1000 instead. I begin my listening with Prokofiev’s Piano Concerto No. 3played by Vladimir Ashkenazy with Andre Previn and the LSO. With the BMU 1000 installed. I am surprised by the superb image placement and clarity of the orchestra. Removing the BMT blurs the piano’s position and replacing it results in it immediately snapping sharply back into focus. In fact, all the instruments are more clearly identifi able and have more space around them.

With female vocals, as demonstrated by a recording of The Lake sung by Carla Lother, there is a greater front-to-back depth and width to the performance. The harmonies sung by the female vocalists are more clearly separated from Carla’s singing in the soundstage and I am also aware of a great sense of refinement to the entire recording.

Hans Zimmer’s Wheel Of Fortune from the film Pirates Of The Caribbean: Dead Man’s Chesttakes on a whole new dimension of energy and excitement. The dynamics are noticeably greater, ranging from the delicate tapping of the timpani through to the more authoritative thumping of the kettle drums as the music surges forward.

Keeping it real

Finally, the intoxicating guitar of Boubacar Traoré in Bougoudani highlights the improved intimacy and presence the BMU 1000 brings to the recording. I find myself more involved and drawn in to the performance, and there is a far greater sense of realism.

If you’re serious about hi-fi , you’re going to want a BMT, and this is an excellent one to own. To put the price tag into perspective, it elevates the sonic performance, regardless of the source and enables your system to sing and produce a more sophisticated sound all round. What’s not to like about that?

 

George

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@gmgraves

https://airlinktransformers.com/product/standard-balanced-power-supply-bps1500#full-spec

 

I can't imagine a lot of Audiophile grade devices wouldn't be good O.o but I am glad industrial alternatives are a lot cheaper.

:D

Why I suggested @pam1975 look for a local German manufacturer for reduced cost and delivery. 

I  would have loved to try a Topaz Elgar transformer but the Toroidal balanced isolation transformer greatly improved my setup and bank balance.

 

 

 

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On 7/24/2017 at 7:38 AM, Speedskater said:

But it's Common Impedance Coupling noise not SCIN that's the problem here.

But on the other hand, Bill Whitlock has written about the AC power line 'Conduit Transformer' problem. It's similar to the SCIN problem in balanced interconnects. The difference is, SCIN is caused by lack of capacitance symmetry and in the 'Conduit Transformer' by lack of inductance symmetry.

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On 25/07/2017 at 8:55 PM, gmgraves said:

I ran across this review of a balanced mains isolation transformer in a British audio magazine (Hi-Fi-Choice). It's a fairly decent description of what a mains isolation transformer can do for the sound of one's system. Remember that British Mains is 230 volts, so when we Americans read this, keep in mind that our mains is about half that. The transformer in the review, is listed at £1600.00. That's about US$2100, which isn't cheap!

 

 

BMU 1000 Balanced Mains Transformer Unit

By Russ Andrews

THERE’S BEEN A lot of talk about the value of a balanced mains feed supplying power to your audio system, so I was delighted when I had the opportunity to try one that’s been specifically designed for hi-fi applications. The BMU 1000 is built around a high-quality precisionwound 1KVA balanced toroidal mains transformer (BMT), and is suitable for powering systems with a total power consumption up to 800W.

BMTs are claimed to improve sound quality, lower the noise floor and reduce mains interference, as well as reducing the radiated fields from the audio equipment mains leads. They also eliminate earth loops in the house wiring as they’re effective isolation transformers.

How it works

The mains supply consists of three connections: earth, neutral and live. Live is nominally 230VAC, earth is the earth local to your house (0V), and neutral is the earth at the power station, which can often end up at about 30VAC by the time it reaches your setup. A BMT leaves the earth, but changes live to 115VAC with respect to earth and neutral to 115VAC with respect to earth. However, the live and neutral are 180° out of phase with each other, so you still have 230VAC between live and neutral, but now it’s balanced around the earth – hence a balanced mains transformer. So, the live cables of all your hi-fi are at half the mains voltage with respect to earth. A well-designed transformer will also filter out much of the mains-borne interference before it reaches the transformers in the power supplies of your equipment.

The BMU 1000 UK is fitted with two premium-quality Russ Andrews UK UltraSockets and a 16A IEC input socket to allow you a choice of mains cable. The BMU 1000 takes the standard 220-250VAC mains input and provides an optimised 230VAC balanced output. The internal wiring employs TCX Kimber Kable. Its ABS box measures 210 x 90 x 290mm (WxHxD), so it should quite easily fit on or underneath your rack.

As my system is powered via a distribution block, it is an easy job to unplug it from the mains and connect it to the BMU 1000 instead. I begin my listening with Prokofiev’s Piano Concerto No. 3played by Vladimir Ashkenazy with Andre Previn and the LSO. With the BMU 1000 installed. I am surprised by the superb image placement and clarity of the orchestra. Removing the BMT blurs the piano’s position and replacing it results in it immediately snapping sharply back into focus. In fact, all the instruments are more clearly identifi able and have more space around them.

With female vocals, as demonstrated by a recording of The Lake sung by Carla Lother, there is a greater front-to-back depth and width to the performance. The harmonies sung by the female vocalists are more clearly separated from Carla’s singing in the soundstage and I am also aware of a great sense of refinement to the entire recording.

Hans Zimmer’s Wheel Of Fortune from the film Pirates Of The Caribbean: Dead Man’s Chesttakes on a whole new dimension of energy and excitement. The dynamics are noticeably greater, ranging from the delicate tapping of the timpani through to the more authoritative thumping of the kettle drums as the music surges forward.

Keeping it real

Finally, the intoxicating guitar of Boubacar Traoré in Bougoudani highlights the improved intimacy and presence the BMU 1000 brings to the recording. I find myself more involved and drawn in to the performance, and there is a far greater sense of realism.

If you’re serious about hi-fi , you’re going to want a BMT, and this is an excellent one to own. To put the price tag into perspective, it elevates the sonic performance, regardless of the source and enables your system to sing and produce a more sophisticated sound all round. What’s not to like about that?

 

Russ Andrews is an audio accessory manufacturer that became famous for having been taken to court for claims he made about his products.

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

 

HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256)

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4 hours ago, semente said:

Russ Andrews is an audio accessory manufacturer that became famous for having been taken to court for claims he made about his products.

 

Didn't know that. OTOH, I'm not actually endorsing that product, I merely used that review as an example of what an isolation transformer can do for one's system under the rights circumstances. 

George

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In the article I summarized my thoughts about power conditioners http://samplerateconverter.com/educational/power-conditioner

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I have an Entreq Powerus Challenger.

 

Very good. Does not limit dynamics or air.

 

But the big thing now is the ultracapacitor banks like in the Vinnie Rossi Lio.

 

I think that's the future.

 

I have my DAC and amp off the grid, and you just can't beat it, even if you're heavily invested in power and ground conditioning.

Waversa hub > Lumin S1 > Bakoon HPA-21

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