USB audio cracked... finally!

[lmitche]

10 minutes ago, Jud said:

Or just shake the entire room liberally.

Or conservatively??

[pkane2001]

3 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Or just shake the entire room liberally.

 

Could be a new audiophile product in the making! Beak-in your entire system all at once.

[mansr]

7 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

Could be a new audiophile product in the making! Beak-in your entire system all at once.

It already exists. It's called the San Andreas fault.

[pkane2001]

2 minutes ago, mansr said:

It already exists. It's called the San Andreas fault.

 

Not very portable. Hard to install it in my North-Eastern US location.

 

[jabbr]

24 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

I like it! So, to get your system settled in after changing anything (including a cable), you need to play music or white noise at maximum volume for a period of a few days?

 

 

I don't know of a physical mechanism that requires music to be played to effect physical relaxations, perhaps voltages might effect connectors -- could try the trick of hooking up headphones to amp output (beware -- don't turn music on!!!) and see if hum decreases -- I honestly don't know what the limits of audibility are just that there are a host of mechanisms wrt electronic settling -- probably should become inaudible after less than a few days but who knows (and I don't lose any sleep over these sorts of things)

[Theobetley]

What about art versus attempts at art. Isn't that the same thing. My daughter can play piano but can't play like Lang Lang. Differences are in the launch the dynamics, the sustain and the sudden-transients. The notes are the same (bits are bits) but not the appreciation of the differences in artistry. The pianos are different (power supplies analog) so are the the piano players (signal integrity). This is much what highend components provide. My attempt at explaining what good highend components do for me.

[elcorso]

1 hour ago, jabbr said:

 

Firstly I am unsure about how much cable "burn in" isn't actually listener burn in but  perhaps you've seen artifacts on a scope when the leads are shaken -- vibration / motion sensitivity than can occur for a variety of reasons but is seen on scopes. 

 

Here is is one of many unequivocal demonstrations: 

 

 

So unsure what the limits of both measurable or audible settling are, but there are some physical mechanisms which might play a role in at least some situations -- connector settling is another issue.

 

I don't spend much time being concerned with cable burn in, but I do vibration isolate (ball bearings) all my equipment

 

Macro & micro vibrations ... a real situation that can affect our audio components, including cables. Investigated and resolved by some, but forgotten by the majority!

 

And even worse if the measuring instruments are also affected. That is why I prefer to take the final resolution also using the ears, although they could also be affected by external causes such as stress, etc., so we must also take this into account.

 

Roch

[jabbr]

6 minutes ago, Theobetley said:

What about art versus attempts at art. Isn't that the same thing. My daughter can play piano but can't play like Lang Lang. Differences are in the launch the dynamics, the sustain and the sudden-transients. The notes are the same (bits are bits) but not the appreciation of the differences in artistry. The pianos are different (power supplies analog) so are the the piano players (signal integrity). This is much what highend components provide. My attempt at explaining what good highend components do for me.

My high strung string instrument players detect differences in string vibrations that are entirely inaudible to me -- new strings need to be broken in -- some strings never "settle down" and occasionally the instrument needs to be brought to a master craftsman (perhaps out of state) if something just isn't quite right...

[pkane2001]

27 minutes ago, Theobetley said:

What about art versus attempts at art. Isn't that the same thing. My daughter can play piano but can't play like Lang Lang. Differences are in the launch the dynamics, the sustain and the sudden-transients. The notes are the same (bits are bits) but not the appreciation of the differences in artistry. The pianos are different (power supplies analog) so are the the piano players (signal integrity). This is much what highend components provide. My attempt at explaining what good highend components do for me.

 

Lang Lang (and many better performers) impart their own interpretations to those composer 'bits'. This is not what I want from my equipment: I don't want my equipment interpreting recorded music -- I want the equipment to reproduce it as faithfully as possible and not to take any liberties with making it sound different. 

[barrows]

1 hour ago, jabbr said:

 

I don't know of a physical mechanism that requires music to be played to effect physical relaxations, perhaps voltages might effect connectors -- could try the trick of hooking up headphones to amp output (beware -- don't turn music on!!!) and see if hum decreases -- I honestly don't know what the limits of audibility are just that there are a host of mechanisms wrt electronic settling -- probably should become inaudible after less than a few days but who knows (and I don't lose any sleep over these sorts of things)

I am no physicist, but it does seem to me that bias across dielectrics (cables, wires, and PCBs) could cause them to take a charge which might then effect the signals moving through them, considering that a cable, or a PCB, has capacitances.

An, perhaps interesting, aside; at audio shows, such as RMAF, one can see that many exhibitors leave systems playing, music, or "break in noise" when they shut down.

Oh yeah, the Lush USB cable is "breaking in" here...

[austinpop]

Ask once - "Show me the data! Prove it!" - then you have a valid point of view. Ask it hundreds of times, over and over, then you are trolling, plain and simple. It's the repetition, the endless refrain, the attacks on unsuspecting end users, that makes you a troll.

 

We have an infestation of trolls on CA. I ask people of good will to exercise restraint, and stop feeding these trolls. Starve them, and they will go away.

 

One nice thing about this thread is that it has become a prime troll destination. That makes it easy to add them to your ignored user list with just a few mouse clicks. The "Ignore User" feature on CA is working great! Please use it liberally. Or conservatively! 

[jabbr]

1 hour ago, barrows said:

I am no physicist, but it does seem to me that bias across dielectrics (cables, wires, and PCBs) could cause them to take a charge which might then effect the signals moving through them, considering that a cable, or a PCB, has capacitances.

 

There are numerous physical effects which have been studied in great detail. The capacitances are all measurable (and real) -- but the charge times are hard to say days! Also the capacitances are measurable, oscillator frequencies etc... when we get a really good crystal oscillator, they don't insist on several weeks "burn in" before the phase error settles down (temperature can be stabilized with an oven). There are also non-linear "memory" effects which have been studied particularly at transistor junctions e.g.  http://www.eng.auburn.edu/~wilambm/pap/2011/K10147_C011.pdf ... just a quick example there are many many more, in specific look at 1/f -> 1/f^2 noise as a function of electronic position/clustering at the silicone lattice/junction.

 

1 hour ago, barrows said:

An, perhaps interesting, aside; at audio shows, such as RMAF, one can see that many exhibitors leave systems playing, music, or "break in noise" when they shut down.

Oh yeah, the Lush USB cable is "breaking in" here...

 

The most obvious reason would be thermal stability -- there are circuits which have temperature compensation for bias voltages (particularly to prevent thermal runaway) but in general easiest to leave the electronics at equilibrated temperature. 

 

@PeterSt does a great job.

[manisandher]

1 hour ago, barrows said:

Oh yeah, the Lush USB cable is "breaking in" here...

 

Look forward to hearing your thoughts...

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

33 minutes ago, austinpop said:

One nice thing about this thread is that it has become a prime troll destination.

 

Hmm... I haven't really felt that. There's certainly a healthy dose of scepticism from some quarters, but that's fine.

 

Mani.

[lmitche]

Here is a cheap < $20, quick and easy Lush cable tweak.

 

I had 70cm of 3/4 inch tinned copper sleeving laying around, so I cut a piece and placed the Lush cable into it, with the ends taped to the shrink wrap avoiding any electrical connection. Reading about high frequency EMI/RFI earlier in this thread, it occurred to me that it may make a difference. And taking it on and off several times, I would say I hear increased presence with it in place.  FWIW.

 

Larry

[AmusedToD]

2 hours ago, austinpop said:

Ask once - "Show me the data! Prove it!" - then you have a valid point of view. Ask it hundreds of times, over and over, then you are trolling, plain and simple. It's the repetition, the endless refrain, the attacks on unsuspecting end users, that makes you a troll.

 

We have an infestation of trolls on CA. I ask people of good will to exercise restraint, and stop feeding these trolls. Starve them, and they will go away.

 

One nice thing about this thread is that it has become a prime troll destination. That makes it easy to add them to your ignored user list with just a few mouse clicks. The "Ignore User" feature on CA is working great! Please use it liberally. Or conservatively! 

 

Couldn't agree more!

[crenca]

4 hours ago, mansr said:

It already exists. It's called the San Andreas fault.

 

Ah, I have been perplexed as to what this thread is even about - Plate Tectonics, now it all is coming together...

[mansr]

10 minutes ago, crenca said:

Ah, I have been perplexed as to what this thread is even about - Plate Tectonics, now it all is coming together...

San Andreas, being a strike-slip fault, is actually not coming together. For that you need to go a little ways north to the Cascadia subduction zone.

 

The question is, what effect do different fault types have on sound quality?

[esldude]

Imagine trying some of those scope taps on a turntable. 

[christopher3393]

"O madness of discourse,
That cause sets up with and against itself!
Bi-fold authority! where reason can revolt
Without perdition, and loss assume all reason
Without revolt: this is, and is not, the Lush USB Cable.
Within my soul there doth conduce a fight
Of this strange nature that a thing inseparate
Divides more wider than the sky and earth,
And yet the spacious breadth of this division
Admits no orifex for a point as subtle
As Ariadne's broken woof to enter." 

                                             ----Will Shakespeare, Troilus and Cressida, slightly revised.

[elcorso]

20 minutes ago, christopher3393 said:

"O madness of discourse,
That cause sets up with and against itself!
Bi-fold authority! where reason can revolt
Without perdition, and loss assume all reason
Without revolt: this is, and is not, the Lush USB Cable.
Within my soul there doth conduce a fight
Of this strange nature that a thing inseparate
Divides more wider than the sky and earth,
And yet the spacious breadth of this division
Admits no orifex for a point as subtle
As Ariadne's broken woof to enter." 

                                             ----Will Shakespeare, Troilus and Cressida, slightly revised.

 

("Si los perros ladran es porque cabalgamos")

"If dogs bark is because we ride."

           

----Miguel de Cervantes, Don Quixote. He told his humble squire, Sancho Panza (textual, no pun intended).

 

Roch

[fas42]

I had a very different entry into the game of aiming for the highest quality from most people - I was just puttering along, improving things as we all do - but I'm a person who instinctively gets more fussy the further into some area I'm interested in, and, I'm willing to "go all the way". Plus, I'm highly technical in my approach - if something unusual happens I don't laugh it off, or treat it as a oncer - something like that makes every fibre of my being lock into pursuing "what's going on?!!"

 

This was an excellent combination of characteristics which allowed me to achieve a "transformative" level of playback quality from CDs 30 years ago - the type of sound that people are getting far more often these days, so it's more readily accepted that such is possible. Back then, it was a desert in digital land - bland, mediocre, just OK so long as you don't turn up the volume, ruled the landscape - how long before people wake up to the potential of digital sound I used to think back then ...

 

This is an intro into commenting upon so many people having a hangup about "little things mattering" - well, get over it!! Yes, Virginia, you _do_ have to worry about everything if you want prime quality sound, that's just the way it is! Having that attitude got me optimum sound 3 decades ago, and I've noted the general bumbling around in the decades since, pursuing one magic bullet after another, but never quiiiite making it ... it's about time people snapped out of the gold at the end of the rainbow chasing. The Lush cable is ultimately just another tool, and a good one, for getting that much closer to eliminating issues in the playaback chain which degrade the potential quality - it's no more, and no less than that in its importance.

 

OK, lecture over ...

[Ralf11]

13 hours ago, Solstice380 said:

 

Your own, as well?

 

 

you don't seem to have a firm grasp on the scientific method

[jabbr]

22 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

I'll just keep pointing out delusions

 

Careful. There is scant scientific evidence about most of consumer audio. Certainly not enough to be certain about many things. Lack of scientific proof does not equate to disproof. Measurements that fail to show something are hardly proof that they don't exist (i.e. There might be a better measurement) An individual's personal listening impression is not a delusion. 

 

Not to to say that there isn't loads of snake oil -- just not necessarily  in this thread -- @PeterSt has alluded that he has used a specific electronic characteristic to design the Lush and I believe him -- he wants to keep it proprietary (I don't know the details myself)

[Forehaven]

4 hours ago, lmitche said:

Here is a cheap < $20, quick and easy Lush cable tweak.

 

I had 70cm of 3/4 inch tinned copper sleeving laying around, so I cut a piece and placed the Lush cable into it, with the ends taped to the shrink wrap avoiding any electrical connection. Reading about high frequency EMI/RFI earlier in this thread, it occurred to me that it may make a difference. And taking it on and off several times, I would say I hear increased presence with it in place.  FWIW.

 

Larry

Awesome Larry!  Just keep on keeping us 'on the cutting edge' ;))

 

I just received a Lush cable myself Monday.  So far, I love it, but it replaced a cheap generic USB cable so I have no real comparisons.  I mentioned to Ted that right off, instruments sounded more real.  Anyway, Congrats Peter for the Lush!