USB audio cracked... finally!

[Allan F]

14 hours ago, marce said:

Oh yawn yawn yawn... give it a rest, prove what you are hearing is not delusional...

 

 

[Ralf11]

46 minutes ago, Tone Deaf said:

That's actually pretty funny.  You are expecting the folks who don't care about proof to provide it to those who do care about it?  I think you are addressing the wrong audience....

 

 

yes, you're right - this forum has become a pearls before swine sort of thing recently

[Allan F]

5 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

yes, you're right - this forum has become a pearls before swine sort of thing recently

 

If you feel that way, then perhaps you should leave the sty.

[Ralf11]

I'll just keep pointing out delusions

[Doak]

1 hour ago, Tone Deaf said:

That's actually pretty funny.  You are expecting the folks who don't care about proof to provide it to those who do care about it?  I think you are addressing the wrong audience....

Perfectly put. 

[feelingears]

14 hours ago, Jud said:

We know the physics of human powered vehicles is well settled, but to Larry’s point, it would get quite old being told to hop on a dyno and prove it every time you said you liked Campy cranksets better.

 

Aww, @Jud... You had to say it, now I have to take the bait. Really, there is no measurable difference between Shimano and Campy. None. Nada. Zip. It's all "delusional," to quote an infamous skeptic. But, I will admit that when I put the Lush USB inline with Boeing T•9 instead of the usual cables, I get snappier shifts that have put me on the podium 1.21x more often than competitors. 

 

(I do ride both. I like 'em both. And SRAM, too. Maybe we need a new thread about how audio systems are like bike geometries and components!)

[Superdad]

13 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

It's difficult not to see grandiosity displayed in the behaviors of some.  What else could explain the need to pounce on these threads to repeatedly tell the rest of us that we're just delusional?  Seems these cable posts simply serve as a source of narcissistic supply that some use to boost their egos, draw attention to themselves, and affirm their feelings of superiority.  It's sad.

 

Believe me Ken, this is nothing compared to the pummeling, ridicule, and character assignation that I am enduring over at ASR right now:(http://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uptone-iso-regen-review-and-measurements.1829/page-21)

 

They are essentially making an indictment of EVERYTHING upstream of the DAC, but rather than admit that they are focusing relentlessly over there solely on the REGEN products.  We're all about delusion, deceptive, and snake oil you know...

[Solstice380]

8 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

I'll just keep pointing out delusions

 

Your own, as well?

[esldude]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

Believe me Ken, this is nothing compared to the pummeling, ridicule, and character assignation that I am enduring over at ASR right now:(http://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uptone-iso-regen-review-and-measurements.1829/page-21)

 

They are essentially making an indictment of EVERYTHING upstream of the DAC, but rather than admit that they are focusing relentlessly over there solely on the REGEN products.  We're all about delusion, deceptive, and snake oil you know...

 

Your gear was tested because someone asked it be tested, and sent it in.  I am sure anyone who wishes to send something in will get it tested.  Another USB cleaner is to be tested in the near future.  If someone would send in a special USB cable that no doubt could get tested as well. 

 

If anyone has a better idea of how to test the effects of these device on DAC analog outputs, it could be suggested.  If a device sounds different it has to have made a difference in the output. 

[marce]

On 09/08/2017 at 7:06 AM, acg said:

 

Dude, it's like you are stuck in Groundhog Day!

 

As a pointer, the year is 2017.  It is widely accepted that computer operating systems and power supplies and cpu's and ram and software settings among other things all affect the sound you get from a dac whilst none of them change the bits.  Most people into audio accept this, some don't and more power to them.  

Wow this is a bold statement, anything to back this up....

[marce]

22 hours ago, lasker98 said:

 

I think that comment gets right to the basic issue causing so much BS on these threads. Not even taking into account the completely condescending tone of your posts, why in the world would you have the nerve or arrogance to think it's up to him/her, or anyone else, to prove anything? It's you and your ilk that are continually stating as fact how impossible these results are. I would think it would be up to you to prove that what's being heard IS delusional. Or, even better, actually try something for yourself, even just once, before spouting off your useless, pointless, unwelcome advice and thoughts.

Because you have to prove your claims that's how science and engineering work OK or we don't move forward... that' how it works in the real world.

Arrogance and interesting use , I am not a 50 something who claims infallible hearing like so many do, in fact hearing far better than any instrumentation we have in the world, that's arrogance mate.

Maybe some would be better testing properly whether they are hearing a difference with controlled testing, it can be a big surprise...

Ask why savvy young people are not becoming audiophiles, why the hobby is full of old men, the average age getting larger each year, magic cables etc.

[marce]

22 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Calling someone delusional isn't allowed here at CA. Please be respectful.

I am not calling anyone delusional, and apologise if you think so. I was referring to our perception of hearing which like all our senses is easily fooled hence often it is in a way delusional, based on faulty judgement...

 

[AmusedToD]

This thread is completely hijacked now, I am signing off.

 

[Jud]

13 minutes ago, marce said:

Because you have to prove your claims that's how science and engineering work OK or we don't move forward... that' how it works in the real world.

Arrogance and interesting use , I am not a 50 something who claims infallible hearing like so many do, in fact hearing far better than any instrumentation we have in the world, that's arrogance mate.

Maybe some would be better testing properly whether they are hearing a difference with controlled testing, it can be a big surprise...

Ask why savvy young people are not becoming audiophiles, why the hobby is full of old men, the average age getting larger each year, magic cables etc.

 

Sometimes (often) folks aren’t “making claims,” they are talking about what they hear, just as folks on car forums talk about what they feel when driving, beer and wine forum members say what they think about those, etc.

 

Perhaps I’m quite clueless, but I don’t see where any of this has to be oppositional or argumentative.  I like to listen and talk about what I hear, and I like to try to learn why things are happening (or why they should or shouldn’t happen in a particular way) too.

 

There’s a way to express opinions or information in a way that doesn’t raise other folks’ defenses and start arguments, and this goes equally for those who are criticizing people for seeking objective explanations as being too restrictive, and those who frame their search for objective explanations as showing the folks trying to have a nice chat that they are fooling themselves.

 

We enjoy the hobby or we wouldn’t be here.  If we can’t find a way to enjoy it together, that IMHO is pretty weak.

[Jud]

47 minutes ago, marce said:

Wow this is a bold statement, anything to back this up....

 

I imagine you think getting the power supplies right is important, so why don’t we start from areas of agreement and work from there?

[marce]

I got a bit miffed, I asked something regarding proof of cable burn in, especially regarding a USB cable and next thing its the usual...

I am deaf,

My system is crap,

etc. etc.

Its a bit like being ravaged by a pack of Chihuahuas. Hence why I went off on one, treat others as they treat you... though I prefer usually to turn the other cheek,.

Sorry but I have never seen any proof of cable burn in, it is taking things a bit far, though if proof was presented then I would change my views...

Good design like anything is attention to detail... but you must focus on the right detail, power supplies are critical to any electronic system, very critical, its the heart of the system. 

[mav52]

28 minutes ago, marce said:

I got a bit miffed, I asked something regarding proof of cable burn in, especially regarding a USB cable and next thing its the usual...

I am deaf,

My system is crap,

etc. etc.

Its a bit like being ravaged by a pack of Chihuahuas. Hence why I went off on one, treat others as they treat you... though I prefer usually to turn the other cheek,.

Sorry but I have never seen any proof of cable burn in, it is taking things a bit far, though if proof was presented then I would change my views...

Good design like anything is attention to detail... but you must focus on the right detail, power supplies are critical to any electronic system, very critical, its the heart of the system. 

I've never seen data from anyone that measured the effects of cable burn in, from start to some predetermined time.   Is all been about the ears.

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, marce said:

Because you have to prove your claims that's how science and engineering work OK or we don't move forward... that' how it works in the real world.

 

Not everyone involved in a hobbyist pursuit is a scientist or engineer. Most people are interested in talking about what they hear and spending a few bucks to try things out themselves.  

 

Some people want listening rooms while others want laboratories. No right or wrong, just different interests. We shouldn't try to shove a square peg in a round hole by asking someone to switch pursuits. 

[kravi4ka]

@marce

I really hope you will continue to contribute to fora, I am afraid at some point you will use your patience and throw the towel on the floor. Please don't. 

 

But it is more complicated than just good engineering and hearing is way more complicated than we understand, a deaf percussionist is not easy to trust

 

https://www.ted.com/talks/evelyn_glennie_shows_how_to_listen/up-next

 

But there she is and she is good. There is a medical explanation of course but there is also her desire to do it otherwise we would all laugh at the idea. As all the people who underestimated her love of music.

 

Jud has always been the example of an intelligent man who respects science,stays open minded and hates BS at the same time, you do not need to fight crusaders as well. 

 

There was a song by The Smiths, Morrissey used to say: "It takes strength to be gentle and kind". There are people who read your every word and take it very seriously even though it kills the illusions we so happily create but do not assume that we are blind/deaf idiots. Please.

[jabbr]

54 minutes ago, marce said:

Sorry but I have never seen any proof of cable burn in, it is taking things a bit far, though if proof was presented then I would change my views...

 

Firstly I am unsure about how much cable "burn in" isn't actually listener burn in but  perhaps you've seen artifacts on a scope when the leads are shaken -- vibration / motion sensitivity than can occur for a variety of reasons but is seen on scopes. 

 

Here is is one of many unequivocal demonstrations: 

 

 

So unsure what the limits of both measurable or audible settling are, but there are some physical mechanisms which might play a role in at least some situations -- connector settling is another issue.

 

I don't spend much time being concerned with cable burn in, but I do vibration isolate (ball bearings) all my equipment

[89reksal]

2 hours ago, marce said:

Ask why savvy young people are not becoming audiophiles, why the hobby is full of old men, the average age getting larger each year, magic cables etc.

 

One theory might be they come to a site like this looking for some helpful information to get them started and they end up having to wade through pages of old men bickering? I don't imagine too many "savvy young people" would be interested in joining that club.

[rando]

2 hours ago, marce said:

Ask why savvy young people are not becoming audiophiles, why the hobby is full of old men, the average age getting larger each year, magic cables etc.

 

False, but it is amusing that you've attempted to use experience longer in duration than other have been alive as a pitfall.  Because it implies depth and breadth.  What I see is the old guard willing and able to share their time while being forced to do so from behind ramparts.  People willing to admit a mistake instead of having a caustic meltdown destroying all evidence of it but scarred memories.  I assure you there are plenty of younger people buying old records and old audiophile equipment to use with their computers.

 

Striking coincidence or not, you decide.  I googled ASR and the top result was a psychological condition that manifests through terror and traumatic reactions.  

[pkane2001]

57 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

Firstly I am unsure about how much cable "burn in" isn't actually listener burn in but  perhaps you've seen artifacts on a scope when the leads are shaken -- vibration / motion sensitivity than can occur for a variety of reasons but is seen on scopes. 

 

Here is is one of many unequivocal demonstrations: 

 

 

So unsure what the limits of both measurable or audible settling are, but there are some physical mechanisms which might play a role in at least some situations -- connector settling is another issue.

 

I don't spend much time being concerned with cable burn in, but I do vibration isolate (ball bearings) all my equipment

 

I like it! So, to get your system settled in after changing anything (including a cable), you need to play music or white noise at maximum volume for a period of a few days?

 

[Jud]

1 hour ago, marce said:

Its a bit like being ravaged by a pack of Chihuahuas.

 

[Jud]

6 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

I like it! So, to get your system settled in after changing anything (including a cable), you need to play music or white noise at maximum volume for a period of a few days?

 

 

Or just shake the entire room liberally.