USB audio cracked... finally!

[Speed Racer]

The only claims made revolve around EMI.....

[mmerrill99]

11 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

The only claims made revolve around EMI.....

Whatcha talking about Willis?

 

[acg]

6 hours ago, rikhav said:

And with the pc you don't use any usb audio improvement devices like the uptone regen and the likes?

 

I have the same PC/Dac setup as Mani.  The PC is a high power multicore Xeon (mine is 20 cores hyperthreaded to 40 cores but most people go for about 12-14 cores + hyperthreading) which run the os in RAM (hence has no SSD or HDD) and has a managed direct ethernet connection to the MusicServer that contains the music.  The XXHE sofware manages not only the physical hardware (such as optimising the operating system and underclocking - my PC runs at about 400MHz when music is playing and draws less than 50 watts) but also the music library and upsampling (32/768 or 16x Redbook).  The PC is powered by a LPS.

 

The Regen never improved anything with this particular dac and for a while many of us used an Intona and USB cards, but those cards were always a stop-gap and brought as many issues as they solved.  With the latest dac upgrade the system is as follows...

 

mobo USB port >> Lush cable >> dac

 

None of those other "USB enhancers" are required because they actually degrade the sound.  Please note though that the dac has proper USB isolation built in which renders all those USB devices and USB cards irrelevant and detrimental.

 

I'll agree with Mani when he says that the current Phasure PC/dac combo is the most musical digital I've ever heard.  An important part of that is the USB cable and The Lush is probably the best money I've ever spent in audio.

[One and a half]

36 minutes ago, acg said:

Please note though that the dac has proper USB isolation built in which renders all those USB devices and USB cards irrelevant and detrimental.

 

There's only a certain combination of isolation for USB audio Class 2 that will work. Whether they are implemented in the DAC, all and well, the exterior types work on the same principles, but they have additional cables, which based on observations here have a dramatic input to the sound the Phasure DAC.

I remain unconvinced about the Lush alone though, unless an audition is on the cards. Based on the wide geographical spread that can make audio auditions happen, that may not occur too soon, sadly. Guess we'll have to work around cracked USB in another way.

 

FWIW the Intona presents a very wide sound stage with the DAC I use, and its simple implementation is the best I've heard from digital file playback. But of course others have better systems, more knowledge and better ears, it's all relative.

[Speed Racer]

1 hour ago, acg said:

 

I have the same PC/Dac setup as Mani.  The PC is a high power multicore Xeon (mine is 20 cores hyperthreaded to 40 cores but most people go for about 12-14 cores + hyperthreading) which run the os in RAM (hence has no SSD or HDD) and has a managed direct ethernet connection to the MusicServer that contains the music.  The XXHE sofware manages not only the physical hardware (such as optimising the operating system and underclocking - my PC runs at about 400MHz when music is playing and draws less than 50 watts) but also the music library and upsampling (32/768 or 16x Redbook).  The PC is powered by a LPS.

 

The Regen never improved anything with this particular dac and for a while many of us used an Intona and USB cards, but those cards were always a stop-gap and brought as many issues as they solved.  With the latest dac upgrade the system is as follows...

 

mobo USB port >> Lush cable >> dac

 

None of those other "USB enhancers" are required because they actually degrade the sound.  Please note though that the dac has proper USB isolation built in which renders all those USB devices and USB cards irrelevant and detrimental.

 

I'll agree with Mani when he says that the current Phasure PC/dac combo is the most musical digital I've ever heard.  An important part of that is the USB cable and The Lush is probably the best money I've ever spent in audio.

 

My eyes almost got stuck in the rolled up position while reading this post.....

[rikhav]

59 minutes ago, One and a half said:

 

There's only a certain combination of isolation for USB audio Class 2 that will work. Whether they are implemented in the DAC, all and well, the exterior types work on the same principles, but they have additional cables, which based on observations here have a dramatic input to the sound the Phasure DAC.

I remain unconvinced about the Lush alone though, unless an audition is on the cards. Based on the wide geographical spread that can make audio auditions happen, that may not occur too soon, sadly. Guess we'll have to work around cracked USB in another way.

 

FWIW the Intona presents a very wide sound stage with the DAC I use, and its simple implementation is the best I've heard from digital file playback. But of course others have better systems, more knowledge and better ears, it's all relative.

 

A mammoth cpu you have in your pc

If I have the liberty, can I ask what's the price of this Lush cable and does it make sense to use it with DACs other then phasure?

[acg]

20 minutes ago, rikhav said:

 

A mammoth cpu you have in your pc

 

 

Yes.  I'm the only person that I know of that has that cpu in my AudioPC.  PeterSt is able to get better SQ with more processor cores and larger caches so when these cpus  became available for a bargain I grabbed two of them (one is in a work PC).

 

 

20 minutes ago, rikhav said:

 

If I have the liberty, can I ask what's the price of this Lush cable and does it make sense to use it with DACs other then phasure?

 

The Lush is around 200 euro depending on length.  At this stage I am unaware of anyone out of the Phasure group that has one but I intend to take mine down to the Gold Coast next time and have a play with it in a couple of excellent but completely different systems to mine.  One of them is the guy that makes the Curious Cables (he has a fantastic system) so it will be very interesting to hear The Lush in that system against that cable.

 

Saying all that, in my experience with different USB cables they tend to do the similar things in different systems.  With my Phasure dac here I tried all sorts of combinations with three different usb cables, the Intona and sometimes bypassing the built in isolation of the dac (it is easy to do).  When I had the Intona in the chain regardless of whether I had bypassed the dacs internal isolation or not The Lush made things sound more like music.  In the end it was easy to hear how the Intona was inferior to the dacs built-in isolation and it was easy to hear what that cable did for the sound.  I am pretty sure it will work in any system, but I am yet to test that for myself.

 

I hope that helps. 

[manisandher]

11 hours ago, rikhav said:

If you don't mind can you list the config of your audio pc 

 

And with the pc you don't use any usb audio improvement devices like the uptone regen and the likes?

 

Hi Rikhav, hopefully Anthony (acg) has answered your questions. But let me know if you have any more.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

12 hours ago, mmerrill99 said:

That's great but I expect he will retain this information & we are none the wiser as to what changes in the USB signal translate into SQ changes?

 

Peter's a decent guy. I'm sure he'd share as much as he felt he could. But I wouldn't blame him keeping some of his 'discovery' to himself.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

10 hours ago, k-man said:

I currently have the Allo Sparky USBridge with a measured USB noise output of 12 uV. It can pull out more detail alone, compared to when paired with an ISO Regen, but lessens the 'musicality' which I will be needing to restore.

 

Well, 'musicality' is what the Lush is all about. Along with Anthony (acg), the 200 Euros or so I spent on the Lush is the best money I've ever spent in audio.

 

Mani.

[semente]

7 hours ago, rando said:

Could you clarify the meaning of this photo comparison.  In general, outside of the supermarket women's magazines, leaving the pores attached to female faces is considered a hallmark of good quality post-production.  In your example a filter was simply applied over a lengthy professional conversion that  had already created an unrealistic ideal.  Which would seem to be at odds with your impression of this cable.  

 

 

 

I agree.

The image on the left has rolled off highs, warmer tones and looks a little blurred.

 

I wouldn't call it solving but masking.

[manisandher]

9 hours ago, ElviaCaprice said:

After hearing the USPCB from Uptone in my system,  upstream and downstream of the ISO Regen, another USB chord will never be entertained again.

 

Hey, if you're happy with the 'musicality' of your setup, stick with it.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

7 hours ago, rando said:

Could you clarify the meaning of this photo comparison.

 

16 hours ago, manisandher said:

I’m not sure how helpful this is...

 

The Lush gives my system a 'natural' and 'analogue' sound. Instruments and voices are both full-bodied and crystal clear at the same time. The whole sound resonates beautifully, with a natural decay. How do you convey this to anyone who has only heard a typical 'digital' sound? The photos were my attempt, but obviously not as helpful as I had hoped.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

7 hours ago, One and a half said:

For USB, I'll stick with isolation/PC Card treatment methods to block leakage currents from the PC in combo with a cable that can provide reliability.

 

You stick with what ever you want to stick with. I'll stick with the musicality that I'm now getting, for the very first time since switching to USB audio.

 

Mani.

[Superdad]

5 hours ago, esldude said:

Did you ever figure out why you get the dropped or missed sample every few seconds Mani?  And does this cable fix that issue?

 

Hmm... I might know something about this.  Mani?

[manisandher]

5 hours ago, esldude said:

Did you ever figure out why you get the dropped or missed sample every few seconds Mani?  And does this cable fix that issue?

 

I'm only aware of the issue when using the AR-T USB-to-spdif converter (that's how I've been capturing the digital output from the software players). I've put it down to some sort of driver incompatibility, but who knows?

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

3 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Hmm... I might know something about this.  Mani?

 

I'd be interested in your thoughts Alex. But to be clear, I only have this issue when I use the AR-T USB-to-spdif converter with XXHighEnd (in Kernel streaming mode). I don't hear anything untoward (any periodic clicks) with any USB DAC connected directly to the audio PC.

 

Mani.

[esldude]

1 minute ago, manisandher said:

 

I'd be interested in your thoughts Alex. But to be clear, I only have this issue when I use the AR-T USB-to-spdif converter with XXHighEnd (in Kernel streaming mode). I don't hear anything untoward (any periodic clicks) with any USB DAC connected directly to the audio PC.

 

Mani.

Okay thanks for answering the question Mani.

 

I wouldn't expect you to hear it.  It doesn't lose lock or corrupt several samples.  It simply skips one every few seconds.  Like removing it with a digital sound editor.  So probably a software issue.  Maybe it is using a buffer and in adjusting for it the result is a dropped sample.  Others can probably answer better than I. 

[BigAlMc]

Hi @manisandher, 

 

Thanks for taking the time to post such a detailed description. 

 

I guess the question many will have is how the Lush cable compares to the Uptone USPCB connector that many on CA are raving about currently. Have you had a chance to compare these two? 

 

Given the cost and reported performance of the USPCB it seems a no brainer where physical space permits. Does that make the Lush a serious contender for the many other situations where a cable is needed for length reasons?  

 

Speaking of length - what lengths does the Lush come in and what did you use for this review? 

 

Many Thanks, 

Alan 

[rikhav]

3 hours ago, acg said:

 

Yes.  I'm the only person that I know of that has that cpu in my AudioPC.  PeterSt is able to get better SQ with more processor cores and larger caches so when these cpus  became available for a bargain I grabbed two of them (one is in a work PC).

 

 

 

The Lush is around 200 euro depending on length.  At this stage I am unaware of anyone out of the Phasure group that has one but I intend to take mine down to the Gold Coast next time and have a play with it in a couple of excellent but completely different systems to mine.  One of them is the guy that makes the Curious Cables (he has a fantastic system) so it will be very interesting to hear The Lush in that system against that cable.

 

Saying all that, in my experience with different USB cables they tend to do the similar things in different systems.  With my Phasure dac here I tried all sorts of combinations with three different usb cables, the Intona and sometimes bypassing the built in isolation of the dac (it is easy to do).  When I had the Intona in the chain regardless of whether I had bypassed the dacs internal isolation or not The Lush made things sound more like music.  In the end it was easy to hear how the Intona was inferior to the dacs built-in isolation and it was easy to hear what that cable did for the sound.  I am pretty sure it will work in any system, but I am yet to test that for myself.

 

I hope that helps. 

 

Hi ACG

Will wait for your reports how it performs with non phasure DACs

 

Also is there any site to order the lush cable or a link to the phasure web site

[vortecjr]

21 hours ago, manisandher said:

Of course, I haven't tried everything that's out there. But I wanted to give an idea of what I have tried...

 

Over the years, I’ve tried a whole bunch of different USB cables. Here are just a selection from my box:

 

What amazes me is that these all sound different to each other. They represent a wide spectrum of sound, from ‘massively full-bodied’ (the Tellurium Black Diamond) to ‘crystal clear’ (the Phasure Clarixa). All the others seem to sit somewhere between these two extremes. Some have the 5V line disconnected (the custom-made AR-T) and others have the 5V line separated (the Ridge Street Enopias) - simply cutting or separating the power line seems to be no panacea.

 

As well as cables, I’ve played around with the USB ports in the audio PC. Here’s a Startech USB 3.0 PCIe card with its oscillator removed and replaced by an external Dexa clock and LPSU:

 

I’ve tried USB isolation devices too. The Intona seemed to move things in the right direction:

 

But over time I came to the conclusion that it was adding a sort of unnatural ‘sheen’ to the sound.

 

I’ve also explored USB-to-spdif converters, such as the AR-T Veloce (a Legato with a 9V DC input):

 

This has a clock which is -89 dBc @ 1 Hz, and yet doesn’t cost the earth. Unfortunately, I haven’t found a DAC with a BNC spdif input that matches, let alone betters, the sound of my preferred USB DAC.

 

Like many others here, I’ve tried the microRendu (with built-in REGEN) and the LPS-1:

 

Well-engineered products that perform very well. After extensive listening, I decided that I prefer the sound of my dedicated audio PC (which costs a lot more than this combo, it has to be said).

 

None of the above ‘cracked’ USB audio, to my ears. But my latest addition has…

 

Mani.

So if I read this correctly...now you can get rid of your expensive dedicated audio PC. See Ma it was my USB cable all along:) Also, for the record we do not have a built in USB Regen in the microRendu. A USB Regen is a product made by UpTone Audio. The microRendu has a regenerative USB circuit in it which might be semantics, but out respect for Alex it has to be said.   

[manisandher]

37 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

So if I read this correctly...now you can get rid of your expensive dedicated audio PC. See Ma it was my USB cable all along:) 

 

You read incorrectly:

 

17 hours ago, manisandher said:

... I'd be very surprised if changing the hardware before the Lush/Phisolator didn't still affect the sound - USB audio just seems incredibly fickle.

 

37 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

Also, for the record we do not have a built in USB Regen in the microRendu.

 

You may want to ask AudioStream to correct their review then:

 

There's [sic] am improved REGEN inside every microRendu...

https://www.audiostream.com/content/sonore-simple-design-microrendu#m8wDvEvydiwOpupj.99

 

Mani.

[vortecjr]

4 minutes ago, manisandher said:

 

You read incorrectly:

 

 

 

You may want to ask AudioStream to correct their review then:

 

 

 

https://www.audiostream.com/content/sonore-simple-design-microrendu#m8wDvEvydiwOpupj.99

 

Mani.

I did ask him to for a recent review...

[manisandher]

24 minutes ago, AJ Soundfield said:

I lost the story line during commercials. Is this the "famous only one in the world, magic can be heard, can't be measured widget"? A usb cable?

 

Ammar, read the following very carefully:

 

On 14/07/2017 at 0:38 PM, manisandher said:

If you believe that there is no more issue using USB for audio than using it for a mouse, then simply move along to another thread that interests you. No need to waste your time posting here.

 

Now just let me know which part of this is still confusing you and I'll see if I can state it more simply for you.

 

Mani.

[mourip]

12 hours ago, JoeWhip said:

Sorry, but this reads like an infomercial.

 

Reads as enthusiasm to me. Why bother to say this?