USB audio cracked... finally!

[esldude]

Did you ever figure out why you get the dropped or missed sample every few seconds Mani?  And does this cable fix that issue?

[esldude]

1 minute ago, manisandher said:

 

I'd be interested in your thoughts Alex. But to be clear, I only have this issue when I use the AR-T USB-to-spdif converter with XXHighEnd (in Kernel streaming mode). I don't hear anything untoward (any periodic clicks) with any USB DAC connected directly to the audio PC.

 

Mani.

Okay thanks for answering the question Mani.

 

I wouldn't expect you to hear it.  It doesn't lose lock or corrupt several samples.  It simply skips one every few seconds.  Like removing it with a digital sound editor.  So probably a software issue.  Maybe it is using a buffer and in adjusting for it the result is a dropped sample.  Others can probably answer better than I. 

[esldude]

On 8/2/2017 at 3:11 PM, Guidof said:

By now I've listened with the Lush in the system to a wide variety of music (mainly jazz and classical) for several days. It replaced a Curious USB cable between my ISO REGEN and Benchmark DAC2-D. Here is what I hear:

• More silent silences ('blacker blacks')
• Greater dynamic range
• More accurate timbres
• More natural voices
• More three-dimensional sound stage
• More engaging reproduction of rhythmic passages
• Greater density of musical information

Taken together, these qualities result in effortless refinement and stunningly lifelike sound. This is indeed a breakthrough product. The price is steep (close to 300 USD when exchange rate, Paypal fees, and UPS shipping are factored in), but not outlandish when the sonic gain is considered.

 

My overall impression (uneducated guess?) is not that the Lush imparts any particular sound signature to the overall musical presentation, but rather that it somehow allows the sound of the rest of the system (upstream and downstream of the Lush) to come through unimpeded.

 

There IS a downside: While the sonic virtues of a good recording are thus revealed, so are the pitfalls of a poor one. This has been true for me with any improvement in the USB chain.

 

 

This sounds like the exact review of benefits that every single improvement in digital audio has ever had. 

[esldude]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

Believe me Ken, this is nothing compared to the pummeling, ridicule, and character assignation that I am enduring over at ASR right now:(http://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uptone-iso-regen-review-and-measurements.1829/page-21)

 

They are essentially making an indictment of EVERYTHING upstream of the DAC, but rather than admit that they are focusing relentlessly over there solely on the REGEN products.  We're all about delusion, deceptive, and snake oil you know...

 

Your gear was tested because someone asked it be tested, and sent it in.  I am sure anyone who wishes to send something in will get it tested.  Another USB cleaner is to be tested in the near future.  If someone would send in a special USB cable that no doubt could get tested as well. 

 

If anyone has a better idea of how to test the effects of these device on DAC analog outputs, it could be suggested.  If a device sounds different it has to have made a difference in the output. 

[esldude]

Imagine trying some of those scope taps on a turntable. 

[esldude]

Free market hooray.

 

It allows products like this.

 

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Enzyte-24-7-Peak-Performance-Herbal-Supplement-40-ct/21108302

 

Pesky scientists and the gov't eventually forced the company into bankruptcy, but a good idea can't be held down. So it is still Smilin' Bob approved.

 

And hey, just like lots of products in the audiophile world, so what if maybe it doesn't really work.  Its all about having fun, and enjoying life.  No doubt, while there may have been some embarrassments from the above product (or so claim the BBB), and the AUA doesn't believe it, we have lots of anecdotal reports in the many thousands.  And fun was no doubt had just seeing if this really works or not.  Heck worth the price of admission I am guessing. 

 

 

[esldude]

5 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

Firstly I have better things to do with my time than provide measurements on other people's products -- I don't even do detailed measurements on all the products I own -- and particularly if I developing something I avoid looking at their IP. 

 

Secondly even when I show you guys a video demonstrating the electrical effect of cable shake -- you (collectively) just make jokes -- it seems that there is a certain segment whose interest is in explaining why not rather than why --I'm saying there should be a balance .

 

Now if a claim goes against known science then I entirely agree with you but the claims being discussed here just flatly dont go against accepted science:

1) There's no accepted science that has determined that cables can't have a sound

2) same goes for other devices such as USB SI eg Uptone Regen, Intona etc (I'll lump peter's Phisolator in with his DAC where it belongs)

Where did you show video demonstrating electrical effect of cable shake?  I missed it.  Saw the one about multi-layer caps in test gear.  Saw the part about probes being rapped on the table.  I have posted the sound of tribo-electric effect.  Missed the video demo about cable shake. 

 

 

[esldude]

17 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Things that go into the body may need a different standard. That said, nobody has to buy products that don't pass that standard. Such as, "not tested or approved by the FDA." 

 

 

 

Actually no, as long as its herbal it has about the same standards as audio gear.  Well actually less.  Audio gear does have to pass certain electrical safety standards. 

[esldude]

15 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

You're correct that was a test probe ... of course the MLCs are in the end connected to the scope... tribo-electric effect with cables ... where did you post this (refresh our memory)? In any case not all cables exhibit this and I was just saying that so called "burn in" may actually be the tribo-electric effects, etc, "settling down"... and I would expect this to occur fairly quickly.

I don't even remember where here I posted it.  Think I have done so twice.  No one is hearing tribo-electric effect as audio gear is normally used.

 

Here is the more recent time.  Unzip the file and listen.

 

 

[esldude]

50 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

stop posting when drunk

Please, please proper terminology here.

 

PWI  short for posting while inebriated. 

 

So just come back later and post, excuse me I was PWI. 

 

Oh, and don't throw any stones in glass houses.

[esldude]

17 minutes ago, tipunch said:

Hello,

@kennyb123 and Doak and all others

 

Have you try the Lush alone?

(Direct to DAC and without ISORegen and USPCB)

 

Best regards

Heretic!  Blashphemy!

 

Though shalt not connectist thou USB directly to any device other than USB de-evilizer devices.  Evil emanations shalt not be allowed in thy abode or thy other audible vicinity. 

[esldude]

3 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

 

I largely agree with you.  What I've noticed though is that the rising tide does tend to lift all boats.  The better my system gets, the more enjoyable all my music has gotten - even the bad recordings.  The recent digital improvements in particular have made it possible to even enjoy the most compressed and hard-sounding recordings in my library.  So from that perspective, I get where fas42 is coming from with his Mercedes analogy.

Following that to its logical conclusion, good recordings are unnecessary.  Good luck with that.

[esldude]

4 hours ago, Cxp said:

Just a thought?

 

How do guitarists tell that a Marshall amp sounds better than a Mesa amp or vice versa? Do they need noise measurements? Double blind testing? How far has confirmation bias infiltrated the musical society? Are we going to assume that orchestra players cannot sufficiently pick out new instruments by themselves without confirmation bias getting in the way or FFT plots of their instrument responses?

 

I believe that confirmation bias may sway some into thinking a certain cable sounds better than another, not in swaying whether there are audible impacts. 

 

If everyone jumps on the Lush bandwagon, this cable will have a specific signature. Confirmation bias may play a role in getting people hyped up and liking that signature more than others. 

 

 

 

Well confirmation bias seems to have extended into the upper reaches of the violinist ranks.  The renowned and revered Strads in a blind test weren't so superlative all of a sudden. 

 

Now interesting comments about the Marshall and Mesa.  Those aren't intended to be transparent conveyors of the input signal.  They are designed to have a sound of their own they add to the input.  When gear alters the input at levels well above human audibility it will be heard.  Even here a mimic of either brand might be judged less good a copy than it would blind just because of the bias knowing you are hearing a real Marshall or Mesa. 

 

So is the Lush a cable made to add a signature of its own?  The descriptions of it seems that way.  Or are people hearing what has been hinted and it actually adds nothing.  Some measurements might show you if the signal seemed altered with Lush vs Clarixa.  Or what sounds different might suddenly sound the same if the listeners didn't know what they were listening to. 

[esldude]

1 hour ago, jabbr said:

 

One report/study does not make a fact. Why are you so willing to conclude that the upper reaches of violinists don't know their instruments?

Well actually there were two or three tests like that.

 

Several violins, some newer quality ones, a Strad, professional violinists asked to play them while blinded folded.  Asked to pick the ones they liked and the Strad didn't top the results.  So not to twist my words that they don't know their instruments.  Just the result of a test, that despite an assumption the Strad was a superior instrument, it didn't turn out that way by their evaluation when they don't know which was the Strad.

 

https://www.thestrad.com/blind-tested-soloists-unable-to-tell-stradivarius-violins-from-modern-instruments/994.article

 

https://www.livescience.com/44651-new-violins-beat-stradivarius.html

 

https://www.thestrad.com/players-favour-new-violins-over-old-in-largest-ever-blind-testing-experiment/6848.article

 

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/05/08/527057108/is-a-stradivarius-violin-easier-to-hear-science-says-nope

 

http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2014/04/07/stradivarius-violins-arent-better-than-new-ones-round-two/

 

To paraphrase Rick James:  Sighted bias is a hell of a drug!!!

[esldude]

4 minutes ago, barrows said:

That could be interpreted as evidence that blind testing is flawed.

That's cute and all.  How original. 

 

To quote Colonel Jessup:  You can't handle the truth!

 

Or more specifically the implications of that truth.

The links above by the way are for three different tests covering some 7 years.  So not a one time fluke result.

[esldude]

1 minute ago, Cxp said:

Regarding the violin testing, there is a big difference between reliably telling violins apart when blinded and the preference for a  violin when blinded. 

 

This does not prove or address that bias can actually change our perception of sound... only our preference for a sound. 

Please read about the tests.  Not all used the same methodology. 

 

If your preference is based upon the sound, then it would be the same blind or sighted.  If your preference is biased based upon the source reputation, then your preferences may differ depending upon the information you are working with.

[esldude]

33 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

These were blind listening tests not controlled for the factor of loudness.

 

Consider this while thinking of the blind taste tests that led to the formulation of New Coke and see what analogies you can start to draw. 

Yes they could not control for loudness. But one of the long running ideas about Strads were superior projection and Hall filling loudness. Some who played Strads claimed they were twice as powerful as other violins.  I seem to recall one of the violinists complaining it wasn't a fair test because the Strads were so much louder it would be obvious. Turns out that wasn't true. 

 

Now I agree this is a problem.  I have said dozens of times matching levels is job one for such testing. 

[esldude]

7 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

There's a difference between playing an instrument and listening to one.  Just as there's a difference in having an instrument next to your face as opposed to its projected sound.  Were any of the violinists in the study Strad owners?  If there were, and they couldn't tell the difference, it would be relevant to those in the listening audience, but not necessarily to the violinists as a preferred instrument.

The articles are there to read.  Yes there were people who played Strads.  One of the tested situations we're listening to others play.

[esldude]

 

Quote

 

I, for one, want to read more Lush listening impressions.

 

 

 

The Lush USB cable gives music a richness that puts you more in touch with the performance.  Emotions flow more easily, the music is simply more musical.  One has a feeling of being immersed in the music itself while one felt kept at a distance even with previously very good USB cables like the Clarixa. 

[esldude]

39 minutes ago, mav52 said:

So the way I read this, A Lush USB cable should by its design change the sound of a DAC that is on the harsh side to one that is richer in sound 

No, no, no.  Read what Peter has written about this.  It isn't about richening the sound.  Clarixa is fine.  Lush is more relaxed as it is better.  So you'll not fix harsh sound coming from other parts of your signal chain.  Doesn't work that way.  Ask Peter, he'll agree.

[esldude]

5 hours ago, mansr said:

I do not claim to be a scientist. My education is in electronic engineering.

Well, that clearly makes you completely misguided and unqualified for audio engineering.

[esldude]

Some people want to find the truth in terms of physical reality.

Some people want to invent the truth of physical reality.

 

Most are somewhere in between hampered by being human. 

 

Others feel that humanity enriches their experience beyond all that simply is.

 

 

[esldude]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

 

 

It is ironic that these troll use science as a crutch for their attacks. 

 

When you use absolutes to put down another point of view, not only is that hubris, it is downright unscientific!

 

A true scientist has the humility to know that there is nothing about which we know everything in this universe! All we have are imperfect models that try to characterize what we observe. True science - as has been mentioned - is about experimentation - a continuing refinement of the cycle of - observation, hypothesis, validation.

The validation is where many audiophiles fall down hard.