USB audio cracked... finally!

[manisandher]

[Edit: 2nd August 2017]

 

Known DACs that various users around the world are using with the Lush USB audio cable, with positive sonic benefits:

 

- Phasure NOS1 G3

- Holo Audio Spring

- Aries Cerat Kassandra

- Pacific Microsonics Model Two (with Playback Designs USB-XIII USB-AES converter)

- Schiit Yggdrasil (pre Gen 5 board)

- exaSound e32

- iFi nano iDSD

- iFi micro iDSD

- dCS Debussy

- Benchmark DAC2-D

- Chord DAVE

- Pink Faun DAC 2.32 (with Wavelength Wavelink USB --> BNC converter)

- NAD M12

- Lampizator B7

- Ayre Codex

- Halide DAC HD

- TotalDac d1-12

- Playback Design MPS-5 w/ USB-X(2) interphase

- exaSound e22 Mark II

- S.M.S.L iDEA HiRes

- T+A dac 8 dsd

- Chord Hugo 2

 

*********************************************************************************************

 

If you believe that there is no more issue using USB for audio than using it for a mouse, then simply move along to another thread that interests you. No need to waste your time posting here. But for the rest of you…

 

I’ve spent an inordinate amount of time and money over the years trying to get USB audio to sound right. I’d like to outline the problem (at a very high level – there’s loads here on CA and on the net about this stuff) and some of the things I’ve tried in this thread. I’ll also share what has finally worked – turned USB audio into music.

 

Some of the issues first:

 

Quote

One of the main bugbears of computer audio is EMI noise. The noise is generated by the raft of generic switch-mode power supply units scattered throughout the computer being in close proximity with the audio path. This is an unwanted distraction to the point of being downright annoying. The residual noise floor is heard most patently between tracks.

 

 

-          Thorsten Loesch

 

 

Quote

Any interface between two points cannot be totally error free. If you use a hard drive over USB, Ethernet or Firewire there are transmission errors. That means the transmitting device is told to resend the packet that has the error in it. Most of the time this is one bit in a packet size of length X.

 

For USB audio, the receiving device is basically translating a serial stream of data with a clock interwoven throughout. At the end of the packet sits some sort of block check. If the block check does not match the data then that packet is flagged as an error.

 

With Isosynchronous USB transmission, packets are sent without any error correction / resending. But guess what? This is the USB protocol used for audio frames. The bad news is they are not error free. The good news is these Isosynchronous frames are afforded the highest priority in the system.

 

Twelve years ago, I pretty much thought as many people do today: that USB was the answer to our S/PDIF quandaries. In some ways it is a good deal better. We have Asynchronous Isosynchronous so the device and host know about sample rates, bit rates, clocking options and a host of other things. But cables make a difference, computer brand and quality make a difference and even the device makes a difference.

 

-          Gordon Rankin

 

 

Quote

Remember that Signal Integrity consists of rise/fall time, noise, and jitter. The jitter in the SIGNAL is determined by the transmitter PHY, which can be significantly influenced by the clock IT gets and the noise on its PG planes. USUALLY noise is low on the signal as it exits the PHY. The cable (and connectors) cause an increase in raise/fall times, added noise (EMI and crosstalk from power and ground wires) and decreased amplitude of the signal. Any decent receiver will have an automatic gain control (AGC) which compensates for this effect, but that raises the noise on the signal, so I'm lumping the amplitude decrease into noise.

 

 

-          John Swenson

 

 

Some of the things I’ve tried in the next post…

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

Of course, I haven't tried everything that's out there. But I wanted to give an idea of what I have tried...

 

Over the years, I’ve tried a whole bunch of different USB cables. Here are just a selection from my box:

 

What amazes me is that these all sound different to each other. They represent a wide spectrum of sound, from ‘massively full-bodied’ (the Tellurium Black Diamond) to ‘crystal clear’ (the Phasure Clarixa). All the others seem to sit somewhere between these two extremes. Some have the 5V line disconnected (the custom-made AR-T) and others have the 5V line separated (the Ridge Street Enopias) - simply cutting or separating the power line seems to be no panacea.

 

As well as cables, I’ve played around with the USB ports in the audio PC. Here’s a Startech USB 3.0 PCIe card with its oscillator removed and replaced by an external Dexa clock and LPSU:

 

I’ve tried USB isolation devices too. The Intona seemed to move things in the right direction:

 

But over time I came to the conclusion that it was adding a sort of unnatural ‘sheen’ to the sound.

 

I’ve also explored USB-to-spdif converters, such as the AR-T Veloce (a Legato with a 9V DC input):

 

This has a clock which is -89 dBc @ 1 Hz, and yet doesn’t cost the earth. Unfortunately, I haven’t found a DAC with a BNC spdif input that matches, let alone betters, the sound of my preferred USB DAC.

 

Like many others here, I’ve tried the microRendu (with built-in REGEN) and the LPS-1:

 

Well-engineered products that perform very well. After extensive listening, I decided that I prefer the sound of my dedicated audio PC (which costs a lot more than this combo, it has to be said).

 

None of the above ‘cracked’ USB audio, to my ears. But my latest addition has…

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

51 minutes ago, mourip said:

 

Looking forward to your findings and that your initial request be respected...

 

 

Haha... let's see!

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

Very rarely have I come across a person whose brain seems to be wired in a totally different way to the rest of us. Back in 1993, I spent a very short stint at the Max Planck Institute in Stuttgart, where I breathed the same air as Klaus von Klitzing. His brain seemed to be wired differently. I have a friend who is a QC in London, specializing in International Arbitration. His brain seems to be wired differently. And then there’s our very own PeterSt…

 

This is the man who as a day-job owns/runs a successful CRM software company. The man who always wanted to live next to a lake, so had one dug up (a lake, not a pond!) next to his newly-built house (the lake now acting as a nature reserve in his village). The man who, unhappy with how all computer software players sounded at the time, made his own… (along with designing/producing the best DAC I’ve ever heard, designing/producing the best audio PC I’ve ever heard, and having some input in designing an outstanding pair of horn speakers.)

 

Peter’s brain seems to be wired differently to most of the rest of us…

 

And I doubt anyone has a better handle on USB audio (Loesch, Rankin and Swenson included). Peter has continually improved the performance of the USB input of the Phasure NOS1 (most recently with the 'Phisolator' USB isolator built into the DAC), but I don’t want to talk about that here. I want to focus on the two USB cables that he's produced to date.

 

His first cable was the ‘Clarixa’. His objective here was to match the USB 2.0 spec (90 Ω, 480Mbit/s, etc.) more closely than any other USB cable available. Along with many others, I’ve been using this cable for a couple of years now, in which time it’s seen off many other contenders. As the name suggests, the sound is ‘crystal clear’… but weirdly, not necessarily very engaging.

 

My understanding is that Peter (with his differently-wired brain) wondered whether the regular USB spec was necessarily the best for audio. And in a manner that is totally incomprehensible to me, decided that it was not. He sat down and worked out his own ultimate spec for USB audio… and built a cable matching it. The result is his new USB cable, the ‘Lush’:

 

It’s difficult explaining the sound of the Lush, though the name should give a clue. Another Lush owner came up with the following image:

I’m not sure how helpful this is, but it resonates with what I hear too.

 

There’s no point in describing the sound in terms of “more of this” or “less of that”. It’s simply more ‘musical’, in a seriously foot-tapping way.

 

As with most people here, I listen to all sorts of genres. But I’ve noticed something in the short time I’ve had the Lush in my system: I’ve been listening to loads of late-‘60s/early-‘70s English rock! Led Zep. Rainbow, Genesis, Pink Floyd, Black Sabbath, Blind Faith, Deep Purple, Clapton (does he count?) – they all sound fantastic! If I had to put my finger on it, I’d say it was the rhythm sections that now sound so dynamic and utterly lifelike. I always thought John Bonham a ‘good’ drummer, but I now have an appreciation for the guy that goes way beyond that (and for John Paul Jones too, incidentally). All the way through Rainbow's 'Stargazer' I have a shiver down my spine now. I could go on and on...

 

The 'Lush' is the real deal. Designed not for a computer mouse, but for computer audio. For me, USB audio has been finally cracked.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

2 hours ago, semente said:

In my view, "cracking" USB means that whatever hardware is before the input becomes (nearly) irrelevant (as long as the processing power can cope with the upsampling requirements).

Can this be achieved with the Phasure USB input + cable?

 

[Highlight mine.]

 

Hi Ricardo, I haven't tried it yet, but I'd be very surprised if changing the hardware before the Lush/Phisolator didn't still affect the sound - USB audio just seems incredibly fickle. And if so, you may conclude that USB audio hasn't yet been cracked.

 

When I say that it's been cracked, I mean how a USB cable's electrical and mechanical properties, and its geometry affect the sound has been cracked. Peter now seems to know how to configure a USB cable to voice the sound from it. We are no longer in the realm of trial and error.

 

There is a guy up the road from me who has just purchased the same DAC as mine. He'll be over at my place at some point to compare his 'regular' laptop with my dedicated audio PC. I suspect that the sound of my audio PC will be significantly better than that of his laptop, but that his laptop will remain musically engaging with the Lush cable. I'll let you know once we've done this (hopefully very soon).

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

11 hours ago, rikhav said:

If you don't mind can you list the config of your audio pc 

 

And with the pc you don't use any usb audio improvement devices like the uptone regen and the likes?

 

Hi Rikhav, hopefully Anthony (acg) has answered your questions. But let me know if you have any more.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

12 hours ago, mmerrill99 said:

That's great but I expect he will retain this information & we are none the wiser as to what changes in the USB signal translate into SQ changes?

 

Peter's a decent guy. I'm sure he'd share as much as he felt he could. But I wouldn't blame him keeping some of his 'discovery' to himself.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

10 hours ago, k-man said:

I currently have the Allo Sparky USBridge with a measured USB noise output of 12 uV. It can pull out more detail alone, compared to when paired with an ISO Regen, but lessens the 'musicality' which I will be needing to restore.

 

Well, 'musicality' is what the Lush is all about. Along with Anthony (acg), the 200 Euros or so I spent on the Lush is the best money I've ever spent in audio.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

9 hours ago, ElviaCaprice said:

After hearing the USPCB from Uptone in my system,  upstream and downstream of the ISO Regen, another USB chord will never be entertained again.

 

Hey, if you're happy with the 'musicality' of your setup, stick with it.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

7 hours ago, rando said:

Could you clarify the meaning of this photo comparison.

 

16 hours ago, manisandher said:

I’m not sure how helpful this is...

 

The Lush gives my system a 'natural' and 'analogue' sound. Instruments and voices are both full-bodied and crystal clear at the same time. The whole sound resonates beautifully, with a natural decay. How do you convey this to anyone who has only heard a typical 'digital' sound? The photos were my attempt, but obviously not as helpful as I had hoped.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

7 hours ago, One and a half said:

For USB, I'll stick with isolation/PC Card treatment methods to block leakage currents from the PC in combo with a cable that can provide reliability.

 

You stick with what ever you want to stick with. I'll stick with the musicality that I'm now getting, for the very first time since switching to USB audio.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

5 hours ago, esldude said:

Did you ever figure out why you get the dropped or missed sample every few seconds Mani?  And does this cable fix that issue?

 

I'm only aware of the issue when using the AR-T USB-to-spdif converter (that's how I've been capturing the digital output from the software players). I've put it down to some sort of driver incompatibility, but who knows?

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

3 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Hmm... I might know something about this.  Mani?

 

I'd be interested in your thoughts Alex. But to be clear, I only have this issue when I use the AR-T USB-to-spdif converter with XXHighEnd (in Kernel streaming mode). I don't hear anything untoward (any periodic clicks) with any USB DAC connected directly to the audio PC.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

37 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

So if I read this correctly...now you can get rid of your expensive dedicated audio PC. See Ma it was my USB cable all along:) 

 

You read incorrectly:

 

17 hours ago, manisandher said:

... I'd be very surprised if changing the hardware before the Lush/Phisolator didn't still affect the sound - USB audio just seems incredibly fickle.

 

37 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

Also, for the record we do not have a built in USB Regen in the microRendu.

 

You may want to ask AudioStream to correct their review then:

 

There's [sic] am improved REGEN inside every microRendu...

https://www.audiostream.com/content/sonore-simple-design-microrendu#m8wDvEvydiwOpupj.99

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

24 minutes ago, AJ Soundfield said:

I lost the story line during commercials. Is this the "famous only one in the world, magic can be heard, can't be measured widget"? A usb cable?

 

Ammar, read the following very carefully:

 

On 14/07/2017 at 0:38 PM, manisandher said:

If you believe that there is no more issue using USB for audio than using it for a mouse, then simply move along to another thread that interests you. No need to waste your time posting here.

 

Now just let me know which part of this is still confusing you and I'll see if I can state it more simply for you.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

1 minute ago, AJ Soundfield said:

Sure.  Is this the "famous only one in the world, magic can be heard, can't be measured widget"? A usb cable??

 

Mr Jadusingh, behave yourself now - you're on a public forum with many others reading.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

5 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

Have you explored the new Uptone Audio USPCB A>B Adapter which is only 35 USD?

 

I haven't, but others who have seem to like it.

 

I suspect it'd sound similar to the Phasure Clarixa cable, which also matches the USB 2.0 specs as closely as possible. And I have a strong preference for the Lush over the Clarixa.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

6 minutes ago, AJ Soundfield said:

So other than the you've finally cracked thing, this is/not the audibly unmeasurable widget...a usb cable?

 

PeterSt has never produced an "audibly [sic] unmeasurable widget". Ammar, there really is nothing for you here. Now just move along.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

1 minute ago, JoeWhip said:

Otherwise, not interested.

 

Hallelujah!

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

5 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

Thanks for taking the time to post such a detailed description. 

 

Hi Alan, thanks. (Sorry for not replying earlier - your post got swamped in the ensuing noise.)

 

5 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

I guess the question many will have is how the Lush cable compares to the Uptone USPCB connector that many on CA are raving about currently. Have you had a chance to compare these two? 

 

As I've mentioned in another reply, I haven't heard the USPCB.

 

5 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

Given the cost and reported performance of the USPCB it seems a no brainer where physical space permits.

 

I would have agreed with you totally, up until a few days ago before I received my Lush. Let me just remind you of something I said earlier:

 

21 hours ago, manisandher said:

My understanding is that Peter (with his differently-wired brain) wondered whether the regular USB spec was necessarily the best for audio. And in a manner that is totally incomprehensible to me, decided that it was not. He sat down and worked out his own ultimate spec for USB audio… and built a cable matching it. The result is his new USB cable, the ‘Lush’:

 

By design, the Lush does not follow the USB 2.0 spec, it follows Peter's own 'USB audio spec'. And this 'USB audio spec' was created not in an ad-hoc manner, but from working from first principles. It is my strong belief that it is the adherence of the Lush to Peter's new 'USB audio spec' that gives it its unique musicality. [And I think 'unique' is the correct word here, because I doubt any other USB cable sounds like it.]

 

Now that I've had this level of musicality in my system for the very first time since switching to USB audio, I couldn't live with anything less musical. And I suspect all USB cables/connectors adhering to the USB 2.0 spec would be.

 

HTH.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

49 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

In other words would my Microrendu and ISO Regen in my case not still be supporting USB 2.0?

 

Alan, apparently, very few USB cables measure anywhere near the USB 2.0 spec - my understanding is that it's quite difficult to achieve. But nevertheless, these cables 'work' perfectly well with your setup (in that there are no drop-outs, etc.).

 

PeterSt believes that his 'Clarixa' cable measures closer to the USB 2.0 spec than any other available. And they're the best USB cables I'd come across... until I heard the Lush in my system a few days ago.

 

The Lush deliberately deviates from the USB 2.0 spec in line with PeterSt's thinking, but not to the extent that it won't work in your (or anybody else's) setup.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

The Lush cable sounds terrific.  Where can I order one? Is it male USB A to male USB B?

 

Yep, male USB A to male USB B. Best to contact PeterSt - sales at phasure dot com.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

31 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

Hi Mani, really interesting. What is the "USB audio spec?" Is 90 Ohm impedance not optimal? Or is it something else?

 

 

Hey Jonathan, I have no idea about this stuff - you'll have to see how forthcoming PeterSt is about it. I did ask my 5 year-old, and he was adamant that the correct value is 3 Ω (in-joke between Peter and me).

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

13 minutes ago, rando said:

USB 2.0 is a dead end in all but legacy applications.    

 

It's funny, only 3 weeks ago I wrote the following on the Phasure forum: "I'm growing a real hatred for all things USB. It's like we're all being held hostage by its whims. And unfortunately, it has us by the balls..."

 

I was referring here to my DAC having only a USB 2.0 input. Being the best DAC I've ever heard, I have no choice but to use USB.

 

13 minutes ago, rando said:

I just won't be buying it.

 

Never say never. You may change your mind once others' opinions of the Lush start coming in.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

12 minutes ago, Dev said:

I hope Lush doesn't sound "like" the later one as the OP seems to indicate.

 

Uh, no:

 

On 7/14/2017 at 4:15 PM, manisandher said:

It’s difficult explaining the sound of the Lush, though the name should give a clue. Another Lush owner came up with the following image:

 

To my ears, the Lush makes my system sound totally natural and 'analogue'. Instruments and voices have a rich harmonic texture, and yet sound crystal clear. I can see that the right image doesn't quite do this justice.

 

Mani.