How DOES the grounding boxes work?

[Speed Racer]

8 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

Actually, that is what happens - expensive products are not required, however, merely extended attention to detail ... of course, people get lazy after a while, and want a bit of magic powder to finish the job for them - which may work, sometimes ...

 

All the good stuff is possible - my experiments have demo'ed this many times. So, all that's required is a bit more effort to sort out where the problems may occur, and resolve them in the smartest possible ways.

 

You realize you said absolutely nothing in those two paragraphs, right? You might as well have typed:

 

"TUGfjjlkdjl ldfjlj dlkjlk flkjdfl [t][y[pou eioywgfbkhg h;ghkgokjg sdfgdkin. LKHJkjhdgljortopijgmgf;dk dljojcgljkld ugjhit kjgj['hlhk uydf."

[fas42]

31 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

 

You realize you said absolutely nothing in those two paragraphs, right? You might as well have typed:

 

"TUGfjjlkdjl ldfjlj dlkjlk flkjdfl [t][y[pou eioywgfbkhg h;ghkgokjg sdfgdkin. LKHJkjhdgljortopijgmgf;dk dljojcgljkld ugjhit kjgj['hlhk uydf."

 

Tsk. I have noted that people struggle with the concept of attention to detail ... we live in a glorious age of consumerism where someone, somewhere, has the "right stuff" to fix all your problems - just try out a few contenders, say, "Aha!! That's the one!", toss your money across the table, and live in nirvana forever after ... maybe, just maybe, one day I will find this magic kingdom where such is possible ...

[fas42]

On a slightly different tack, a member of another forum just commented in that place,

 

Quote

The more noise that is removed the more tonal richness and clarity will be revealed. I have come to the conclusion as many here have that live music is the only thing to judge by. The only other arbiter is the ability to visualize (no better word) what the microphone would hear and that can only be accomplished by training yourself to listen for the degrees of clarity in that context in your system. In my experience there are many levels of clarity and that is the essence of this puzzle and the solution too.

 

Rather poetic, I thought ...

[Ralf11]

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

my experiments have demo'ed this many times. 

 

 

what do you do for controls in your experiments?

[fas42]

16 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

what do you do for controls in your experiments?

 

My approach is to listen for clearly apparent distortion in the playback - typically, use a test CD where I have heard an optimum playback of the contents at some stage, on some other setup. Does what I'm working on currently meet those standards, or not? Always, there will be issues - a failure to resolve detail, or poor quality 'timbre' - investigate, experiment, resolve; incrementally "remove" all the obvious artifacts - at some point a decent soundstage will emerge, and in the last round the speakers become 100% invisible - the last criterion is the major control, are they invisible or aren't they?

[fas42]

..

[Ralf11]

Let's call them comparisons.  

Also, it appears there is a major source of bias involved.

[fas42]

36 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

Let's call them comparisons.  

Also, it appears there is a major source of bias involved.

 

Bias in what sense?

[The Computer Audiophile]

I heard back from Entreq today. Here is our email exchange. 

 

 

 

Hello Chris.

 

Nopp

Dont know how it have been done. He anyhow don´t use any of our cables.

All cables act like antennas. If you have right length, right metal , right area etc on the cable, you can pick up the most of  signals in the air, so ................

Perhaps any of the other brands, Tripoint, CAD, Nordost etc can help.

 

Best

PO

 

From: Chris Connaker

Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 3:41 PM

To: [email protected]

Subject: Grounding Box Adds Noise?

 

 

Hi Guys - Someone has posted measurements of one of your grounding boxes and says it adds noise. Can you comment on this or explain why this appears to be the case?

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/34650-how-does-the-grounding-boxes-work/?page=6#comment-694618

Chris Connaker

Founder
Computer Audiophile

[marce]

7 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

Gosh! The next time I'm standing in a field, in a wild storm - and above me I see a lightning bolt a-comin' to get me, I can rest easy, knowing that I've got hours to get cosy and warm in front of a fire, before the dastardly thing can have its wanton way with me ... .

I didn't mention lightening nor am I talking about lightening, look up electron drift velocity.

[esldude]

41 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I heard back from Entreq today. Here is our email exchange. 

 

 

 

Hello Chris.

 

Nopp

Dont know how it have been done. He anyhow don´t use any of our cables.

All cables act like antennas. If you have right length, right metal , right area etc on the cable, you can pick up the most of  signals in the air, so ................

Perhaps any of the other brands, Tripoint, CAD, Nordost etc can help.

 

Best

PO

 

From: Chris Connaker

Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 3:41 PM

To: [email protected]

Subject: Grounding Box Adds Noise?

 

 

Hi Guys - Someone has posted measurements of one of your grounding boxes and says it adds noise. Can you comment on this or explain why this appears to be the case?

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/34650-how-does-the-grounding-boxes-work/?page=6#comment-694618

Chris Connaker

Founder
Computer Audiophile

 

[Cornan]

Quote

Cornan could also enlist the help of a friend. Arrange the equipment or a screen so you can't see if the wire is connected to the equipment or not. Listen to the music. Then have your friend disconnect (or not disconnect) the wire. Note if the sound is the same or different. Repeat 20 or more times. See how many times you got it right. Note that your friend will need to be good at poker ("poker faced"), to avoid giving any physical clues as to whether they disconnected / reconnected the wire or not. You might need to leave the room while they do it.

 

Considering that the Entreq grounding boxes peak their performance after 24 hrs this is not something I am prepared to do. It would take me and a friend 480 hrs to complete with confident result. Never mind the extra time changing the gears and the possible audio memory loss inbetween. ?

[esldude]

1 minute ago, Cornan said:

 

Considering that the Entreq grounding boxes peak their performance after 24 hrs this is will not be something I am prepared to do. It would take me and a friend 480 hrs to complete with confident result. Never mind the extra time changing the gears and the possible audio memory loss inbetween. ?

How can the memory loss in between be a problem.  Have you not said the improvement is large and unmistakable?

 

 

[Cornan]

Just now, esldude said:

How can the memory loss in between be a problem.  Have you not said the improvement is large and unmistakable?

 

 

 

They are indeed. They just peak in 24 hours. Keep getting better! ?

[Speed Racer]

21 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Considering that the Entreq grounding boxes peak their performance after 24 hrs this is not something I am prepared to do. It would take me and a friend 480 hrs to complete with confident result. Never mind the extra time changing the gears and the possible audio memory loss inbetween. ?

 

What, does the box have to get charged up or get warm or something? If the box is providing some kind of grounding, it should work right away or not at all. I can't wait to hear the explanation for this.....

[Cornan]

Just now, Speed Racer said:

 

What, does the box have to get charge up or get warm or something? If the box is providing some kind of grounding, it should work right away or not at all. I can't wait to hear the explanation for this.....

 

No the box does'nt get hot at all. I have actually never felt any changes in temperature on the outside of the box. I do shake the box every 6 months or so to reduce any plausible risk of saturation, but I have'nt actually noted any difference during the years. I just do it in the same consistent way as I connect and reconnect plugs a couple of times every 6 months or so and once a years treat them with Deox-IT. 

[esldude]

8 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

 

What, does the box have to get charged up or get warm or something? If the box is providing some kind of grounding, it should work right away or not at all. I can't wait to hear the explanation for this.....

Look at the reply to Chris' email inquiry.  The maker suggests you ask some other companies who make similar products.  At other times he has said too many copied his designs so he prefers not to explain how they work.  There'll be no forthcoming explanation.  Belief......that is why it works that way.....BELIEF!

[fas42]

13 minutes ago, esldude said:

There'll be no forthcoming explanation.  Belief......that is why it works that way.....BELIEF!

 

'Fraid not. Having read so many instances of people's experiences it is mighty clear that such devices have an audible impact in many systems - the interesting aspect is, what is going on, why do the operating characteristics change? Waving the word BELIEF in front of people as an all-encompassing answer to everything that doesn't make instant sense to the objectivists is just as silly as the more outrageous claims about some 'devices' - from our side, you look just as dumb as we lot appear to do to you ...

[Don Hills]

3 hours ago, fas42 said:

On a slightly different tack, a member of another forum just commented in that place,

 

 

Rather poetic, I thought ...

 

Indeed. That person appears to have the same knack with words that Speedracer noticed in you.

[Don Hills]

1 hour ago, Cornan said:

 

Considering that the Entreq grounding boxes peak their performance after 24 hrs this is not something I am prepared to do. It would take me and a friend 480 hrs to complete with confident result. Never mind the extra time changing the gears and the possible audio memory loss inbetween. ?

 

How... convenient.

[Don Hills]

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I heard back from Entreq today. Here is our email exchange. 

...

 

Well, that's quite clear. The wire they supply with their box is not fit for purpose. You need to buy one from one of the snake oil cable companies.

[semente]

9 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

Kudos for exploring these ideas - "setting the music free, making it way more relaxed and natural" is precisely the subjective benefit from nulling the interference factors at play here. It is a distortion that the methods are impacting, and attenuating - how much it's been reduced can be evaluated by the improvements expressed in that phrase.

 

Perhaps what you are trying to say is that raising the noise floor level masks imperfections or distortions elsewhere in the playback?

[semente]

8 hours ago, AJ Soundfield said:

Well, if I connected my stereo to the cat litter box, I would think "cleaner", maybe "less mud", etc.

Of course, never in my wildest dreams would I have thought of doing that. Bravo to these guys for such ingenuity.

 

Hopefully your cat would see the potential and leak some of his ions there and not on the kitchen floor.

[fas42]

57 minutes ago, semente said:

 

Perhaps what you are trying to say is that raising the noise floor level masks imperfections or distortions elsewhere in the playback?

 

Am I? Midfi "works" in part because the masking of raised floor levels; the progression as one improves the resolving power of audio playback is that "poor" recordings become less and less pleasant to listen to - because the remaining flaws in the playback exaggerate, emphasis 'issues' in the recording. So, the noise floor is being lowered, but that which is still remaining prevents one accepting the music "at face value". It's only the last step, transitioning into convincing quality, that leaves this all behind - the noise floor still exists, but can now be discarded with ease by the listening mind - as an example, a powerful crescendo of sound can 'pour over' one, just like the "real thing", and an immediately following ppp will resolve with full clarity to your ear - if there were noise floor issues then subjectively this would not happen.

[Jud]

1 hour ago, Don Hills said:

 

How... convenient.

 

I think humans are sensitive enough to reasonably large loudness changes that the simple experiment I suggested should be enough to show whether or not the Entreq and its cable make an audible difference due to serving as an antenna pulling in RFI in @Cornan‘s system.