How DOES the grounding boxes work?

[mansr]

Just now, semente said:

what people are listening or hope to listen when they "connect" such a product to their system.

Presumably the same as with all miracle products: lifted veils, wider soundstage, tighter bass, etc.

[wgscott]

28 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

I thought you were a Bezerkely-ite - grad. school?

 

my point tho is there is insufficient science education in the liberal arts curriculum (and what there is, tends to teach science as a body of knowledge, not as a procedure for understanding reality)

 

Yeah, I went to Berkeley for grad school.  I went to a small college in Maine before that.

 

Turns out the National Academy did a survey, and a disproportionately large number of their members are the product of small liberal arts colleges.  

 

If science is being misrepresented in higher education, I think it is our fault (i.e., that of the scientists).

[Ralf11]

I agree.  The science faculty would much rather spend time discovering the secrets of the universe (or a small fraction thereof) than argue with a committee of liberal arts people for more science course requirements.

 

... not to mention the disinterest in teaching difficult things to disinterested undergrads

 

but the idea that all viewpoints are equally relevant is pervasive in liberal arts education and untrue in fields where actual knowledge is required

 

if the Mainiac college is the one I'm thinking of it is a very fine school

[fas42]

9 hours ago, semente said:

 

Could you please elaborate on your "thinking very carefully" methodology?

 

 

 

A good way to explain it, is that I think of each piece of cable as an electrical part in its own right - just like a resistor, or transistor. Considering that it can have parasitic qualities, it is certainly not a perfect conductor. So, what does one worry about for a conventional part? Well, that it's connected with complete integrity at the end of each of the leads or pins, that it's not particularly subject to vibration and movement, that's it's locked into place firmly, is stable on any material that is used to mount it; that it's not touching, or too close to the 'wrong things' ... now, have a look at the internals and externals of most audio systems, and check how many of those boxes are ticked for all the cables that are in use ...

 

Sloppiness is death in ambitious audio - that is, the potential for exceptional sound can be crippled very easily - the only way out is to be fussy, fussy, fussy ...

[fas42]

9 hours ago, pkane2001 said:

Charge build up in a conductor forms the opposite charge relative to earth reference in self-capacitance.

 

But you don't need expensive mahogany boxes and semi-precious stones for this: just place a small-valued capacitor between device ground plane and true earth ground, and you'll have the same effect.

 

Ummm, I walk into a room and want a "true earth ground" to hook onto - now, where might I find that ... ?

[fas42]

8 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

Well yes! My attempts worked, but I guess Entreqs long experiances in the field pays off. I own a cheaper Aucharm grounding box and between my attempt and the Aucharm it is a close shot.

The grounding boxes sort of sets the music free, making it way more relaxed and natural. It is a very appealing improvement once you've heard it.

 

Kudos for exploring these ideas - "setting the music free, making it way more relaxed and natural" is precisely the subjective benefit from nulling the interference factors at play here. It is a distortion that the methods are impacting, and attenuating - how much it's been reduced can be evaluated by the improvements expressed in that phrase.

[fas42]

8 hours ago, marce said:

No, I am thinking of basic electronics and conventional current, one wire will not pass current, the wave needs to flow before any current can be measured. You need two wires or at least a return path for current to flow. Draw a circuit of the box, there is one wire between the box and the component, because the wire is connected to a GND point on a component it will be at the same potential.

A light switch has one contact, for the positive line, the neutral is connected to the load, there is a potential difference of 230V a.c. approx, NO current flows down the neutral wire. This is the same it is a single wire floating, there is no return path. 

 

The confusion here is that some are thinking of potential difference; the others, charge - two different concepts.

[fas42]

7 hours ago, marce said:

As I said earlier electrons in the presence of an electric field travel at approx 0.002mm/s, there fore it would take them, so in 20 hours they will travel 150mm (6 inch) so there are no electrons rushing about, so no electron pool effect. Discarding the way out stuff we come back to a wire connected at one end, which gives us an antenna. If you read the John Wu power-point linked above, we are probably looking at conducted noise picked up bt the wire connected at one end only.

 

Gosh! The next time I'm standing in a field, in a wild storm - and above me I see a lightning bolt a-comin' to get me, I can rest easy, knowing that I've got hours to get cosy and warm in front of a fire, before the dastardly thing can have its wanton way with me ... .

[fas42]

Ahhh, I see the objectivists have called a victory here - they've pummelled the other side mercilessly, and the latter have retreated to "lick their wounds" ... pity, that ...

[Ralf11]

maybe they are suffering from bit rot

[kumakuma]

perhaps it's because their theories are grounded in science, not black sand...

[mmerrill99]

12 minutes ago, fas42 said:

Ahhh, I see the objectivists have called a victory here - they've pummelled the other side mercilessly, and the latter have retreated to "lick their wounds" ... pity, that ...

Same as it ever was - same as it ever was

And you may ask yourself, well
How did I get here?

[pkane2001]

45 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

Ummm, I walk into a room and want a "true earth ground" to hook onto - now, where might I find that ... ?

Center connector of a properly wired three-prong outlet. Or a faucet, assuming pipes are metal.

[Jud]

8 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

Center connector of a properly wired three-prong outlet. Or a faucet, assuming pipes are metal.

 

These days those pipes are metal in fewer and fewer instances.

[AJ Soundfield]

3 hours ago, mansr said:

Presumably the same as with all miracle products: lifted veils, wider soundstage, tighter bass, etc.

Well, if I connected my stereo to the cat litter box, I would think "cleaner", maybe "less mud", etc.

Of course, never in my wildest dreams would I have thought of doing that. Bravo to these guys for such ingenuity.

[fas42]

31 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

Center connector of a properly wired three-prong outlet. Or a faucet, assuming pipes are metal.

 

OK, the key word in what I quoted was "true" - that is, close to zero impedance to the earth mass under our feet, at all frequencies of interest - have I got that somewhere, in my room?

[mansr]

1 minute ago, fas42 said:

OK, the key word in what I quoted was "true" - that is, close to zero impedance to the earth mass under our feet, at all frequencies of interest - have I got that somewhere, in my room?

Doesn't really matter as long as you're not building antennas. Oh wait...

[pkane2001]

Just now, fas42 said:

 

OK, the key word in what I quoted was "true" - that is, close to zero impedance to the earth mass under our feet, at all frequencies of interest - have I got that somewhere, in my room?

 

You quoted me saying 'true ground', meaning earth ground, not a device/neutral ground. That's what I meant,

 

But if you want a 'true' ground by your definition, the best thing to do is to bury your device into the ground, near a large metal pipe, attached by a very short run of a large gauge, cryogenically annealed gold wire  

 

[plissken]

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

Ahhh, I see the objectivists have called a victory here - they've pummelled the other side mercilessly, and the latter have retreated to "lick their wounds" ... pity, that ...

 

I've yet to see a subjectivist cry uncle when beat mercilessly with the generic zip cord of logic.

 

 

[Don Hills]

Just a thought about the experiment of attaching a small capacitor between an equipment terminal and a "ground" point: The Entreq instructions say to keep the box away from metal (which may be grounded). This will avoid capacitive coupling between the box and ground. Since Entreq therefore explicitly discount capacitive coupling as an explanation for the way the box works, the capacitor experiment is unlikely to give a similar result.

 

Cornan could also enlist the help of a friend. Arrange the equipment or a screen so you can't see if the wire is connected to the equipment or not. Listen to the music. Then have your friend disconnect (or not disconnect) the wire. Note if the sound is the same or different. Repeat 20 or more times. See how many times you got it right. Note that your friend will need to be good at poker ("poker faced"), to avoid giving any physical clues as to whether they disconnected / reconnected the wire or not. You might need to leave the room while they do it.

[jabbr]

42 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

But if you want a 'true' ground by your definition, the best thing to do is to bury your device into the ground, near a large metal pipe, attached by a very short run of a large gauge, cryogenically annealed gold wire

 

I prefer to listen to music while in a hot air balloon floating directly over the north pole, and do prefer a grounding box because earth ground is not practically available.

 

I have constructed a balloon basket whose floor is double layer of layered interspersed with tourmaline sand  

[pkane2001]

45 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

I prefer to listen to music while in a hot air balloon floating directly over the north pole, and do prefer a grounding box because earth ground is not practically available.

 

I have constructed a balloon basket whose floor is double layer of layered interspersed with tourmaline sand  

 

You like to live dangerously! That tourmaline is a lightning magnet. After all, it's  "designed to resemble and work like a bit of Mother Earth" (entreq.com)

[Ralf11]

54 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

I prefer to listen to music while in a hot air balloon floating directly over the north pole, and do prefer a grounding box because earth ground is not practically available.

 

I have constructed a balloon basket whose floor is double layer of layered interspersed with tourmaline sand  

 

 

You can use Magic Bricks for ballast - yes, they're baaaack

[esldude]

1 hour ago, jabbr said:

 

I prefer to listen to music while in a hot air balloon floating directly over the north pole, and do prefer a grounding box because earth ground is not practically available.

 

I have constructed a balloon basket whose floor is double layer of layered interspersed with tourmaline sand  

You can tell when people aren't serious.

 

The pole is where the entrance to the UFO base is.  You'll not be able to enjoy your time there unless you like being probed.    The tourmaline will not shield you from that.  They'll also recognize the difference between true anti-grav tech and heated air levitation. 

[fas42]

6 hours ago, mansr said:

Presumably the same as with all miracle products: lifted veils, wider soundstage, tighter bass, etc.

 

Actually, that is what happens - expensive products are not required, however, merely extended attention to detail ... of course, people get lazy after a while, and want a bit of magic powder to finish the job for them - which may work, sometimes ...

 

All the good stuff is possible - my experiments have demo'ed this many times. So, all that's required is a bit more effort to sort out where the problems may occur, and resolve them in the smartest possible ways.