Jump to content
IGNORED

How DOES the grounding boxes work?


Recommended Posts

12 hours ago, pkane2001 said:

2. They might form a common ground across devices if more than one device is connected to the same grounding box/connector (resulting in more cross-talk but possibly fewer ground loops)

 

@Cornan, if there is an actual difference you are hearing, this is so far the only explanation I have seen that makes any sense to me.

 

Otherwise, I haven't seen any logical explanation as to why it should help to run wire(s) to what I will ask you to forgive me for calling a "box of rocks."

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

Link to comment
11 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

I think the OP clearly indicates that I want to know why they WORK. Not why the do not work. It would be interesting to know theories that explains a plausible explanation, even if that explanation does'nt include grounding in a proper sense.

 

There's plenty of weird stuff that makes a difference - you just shake your head at times. All of it would make sense if a correctly focused analysis were done, or enough experiments tried.

 

My belief is that the best approach is to make a system 'robust'; that is, zero impact when a grounding box is tried - but achieving that may not be easy.

Link to comment
13 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

@Cornan, if there is an actual difference you are hearing, this is so far the only explanation I have seen that makes any sense to me.

 

Otherwise, I haven't seen any logical explanation as to why it should help to run wire(s) to what I will ask you to forgive me for calling a "box of rocks."

 

Well that is the problem I hope we could find a clue to solve. I am quite sure that anyone that have actually tried them are believers as long as they have tried it on several spots. The point is that they do not work everywhere, but always somewhere in the setup. Due to the specific Tourmaline stone properties it is not far off to think that it reduces anti-statics. But could a reduction in anti-statics improve the ground path in any way? 

IME grounding boxes are especially effective on chassis & shields. This also indicates to me that it deals with anti-statics. What do you think Jud?

 

 

Link to comment
3 minutes ago, soxr said:

You can always use audiodiffmaker to measure with and without the tweak and measure differences.
 

 

No. Concept is good, but implementation is poor - that is, the chances of this program telling you something useful is fairly close to the "pigs flying", mentioned above. Having tried several times to squeeze sensible data from this application, with zero success, I would place no faith in it.

Link to comment
1 hour ago, Cornan said:

 

I honestly do want to know how they work, but do not expect me to read the laws of physics. I am only interested if someone have a clue how they work. Not if someone do not have a clue. 

THEY DON'T, that's just it they do not work as stated it is, they are a bit of wire stuck in some crystals/mud wot ever it wont make a difference. These devices do not work as claimed, they act as an antenna. 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, Cornan said:

Tourmaline stones, copper and silver are the main ingredients in the grounding boxes. As far as I see it there must be a reason for it to enhance SQ. They are usually very effective in chassi groundI and signal ground. I am all for the possibilities that it could deal with anti-statics for example.

NO, they add noise if anything they do NOT remove it.

Link to comment
Quote

"Storing" them requires an electrical charge to build up in the box or to be converted into some other kind of energy (light, heat, radio waves, etc.).

This is interesting since tourmaline stones are negatively charged and have both piezo- and pyroelectrical properties. Could they actually store them?

 

 

Link to comment
37 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

Marce, I thought you had gone through a medical unpleasantness, and I see that it was a wee unpleasant, pun iintended :D. Hope life has restabilised fully, and you're in full stride, in everything that matters!

 

Myself, slowing down even more than before - I'm doing something now I never thought I would do, going to bed early in the evening sometimes; the energy reserves just run out, and it's time to call it quits for the day. Ahhh, well, the price of getting older ...

 

Cheers,

Life is almost the same, I just have a Bag for life...LOL and a few other minor problems but all fade into insignificance as the cancer looks to have gone (clear at 6 months) so fingers crossed. No wee for me any more.

Know what you mean about lack of energy, bugs me as I cant be as active as I was, old age and poverty.

Link to comment
1 minute ago, marce said:

NO, they add noise if anything they do NOT remove it.

 

Tormaline stones are used in hair dryers etc to remove anti-statics, so they do work for that purpose. They just need heat. Could positive charges provide the heat for the tourmaline stones?

 

 

Link to comment
20 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Well that is the problem I hope we could find a clue to solve. I am quite sure that anyone that have actually tried them are believers as long as they have tried it on several spots. The point is that they do not work everywhere, but always somewhere in the setup. Due to the specific Tourmaline stone properties it is not far off to think that it reduces anti-statics. But could a reduction in anti-statics improve the ground path in any way? 

IME grounding boxes are especially effective on chassis & shields. This also indicates to me that it deals with anti-statics. What do you think Jud?

When you ground yourself for anti static in electronic labs etc the static is given a path to dissipate, electronics that are plugged in and working tend not to build up static as there is always a path for it to dissipate. It works like small lightning,  a wire un-terminated and going to an isolated box would just build up to the same potential as any static present, NOT dissipate it. Again another area with plenty of studies due to the negative effect static bursts have on modern semi-conductor devices.

Link to comment

We have hung bits of wire from things in EMC labs to see what happens, not pretty, that is why avoiding antenna structures is one of the first rules of EMC design for PCBs and systems. On PCBs these are often created when a ground pour is done around existing routes and you get a long thin ground node with a via at only one end.... very very bad.

Link to comment
Quote

My belief is that the best approach is to make a system 'robust'; that is, zero impact when a grounding box is tried - but achieving that may not be easy.

 

I actually share that beleif!

In some parts of my system the grounding boxes have no positive effect. Usually in places were I use floating ground and unshielded ICs without GND and 5v. Interesting thing is that a network switches is different IME. It improves despite these "optimal" circumstances. Might be a clue??

 

 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, Cornan said:

I am quite sure that anyone that have actually tried them are believers

Correct.

They won't work on non-believers, any more than a voodoo doll, power bracelet, exorcism, etc, etc.

I haven't tried any of those either, but I know with 100% certainty they have a profound effect on believers who have tried them. So we are in agreement, these things do work..on some.

Btw, I'm sure eating a piece of manure tastes like isht, but I have not tried that either to "experience it for myself" as others must do with everything. YMMV.

Link to comment
58 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

No. Concept is good, but implementation is poor - that is, the chances of this program telling you something useful is fairly close to the "pigs flying", mentioned above. Having tried several times to squeeze sensible data from this application, with zero success, I would place no faith in it.


It depends. On some voodoo tweak I measured exactly in the diff file as what I heard in the system.
On some other claimed "problem", I could not hear it and not measure it.

Some customer was claiming he could hear if a player was started was running on which core.
So this customer restarts a software player in his OS, and linux assigns a random new core for the process based on the load. We could not hear it or measure it.

Once we locked the player to a dedicated core, he could not hear any diff when restarting the player over and over again. This was very frustrating. Took us several weeks to fix this problem that was not a problem for >99% of the customers.

Link to comment
30 minutes ago, Cornan said:

This is interesting since tourmaline stones are negatively charged and have both piezo- and pyroelectrical properties. Could they actually store them?

 

Tourmaline, (besides its miraculous healing properties) generates both, positively and negatively charged ions when activated by mechanical pressure.  The crystals produce static electricity by internal friction when so activated. So, perhaps you need to sit on the rocks or hammer them to get the positive effect on SQ? Is that the recommended application of grounding boxes? :)

Link to comment
1 hour ago, soxr said:

You can always use audiodiffmaker to measure with and without the tweak and measure differences.
 

Unfortunately it seems that audiodiffmaker is not a very scientific way to prove anything. There have been a lot of discussions regarding this perticular software. A pity though since it could have been a good way to see if it makes any noticable difference.

 

 

Link to comment
1 minute ago, Cornan said:

Unfortunately it seems that audiodiffmaker is not a very scientific way to prove anything. There have been a lot of discussions regarding this perticular software. A pity though since it could have been a good way to see if it makes any noticable difference.

 

So propose a better method

Link to comment
2 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Tourmaline, (besides its miraculous healing properties) generates both, positively and negatively charged ions when activated by mechanical pressure.  The crystals produce static electricity by internal friction when so activated. So, perhaps you need to sit on the rocks or hammer them to get the positive effect on SQ? Is that the recommended application of grounding boxes? :)

 

AFAIK it is enough to keep the tourmaline stones under pressure to release ions. If you shake a Entreq grounding box you cannot even hear the stones moving inside. 

Aucharm grounding boxes have loose stones inside, but their grounding box isn't as effective either.

 

 

Link to comment
53 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Well that is the problem I hope we could find a clue to solve. I am quite sure that anyone that have actually tried them are believers as long as they have tried it on several spots. The point is that they do not work everywhere, but always somewhere in the setup. Due to the specific Tourmaline stone properties it is not far off to think that it reduces anti-statics. But could a reduction in anti-statics improve the ground path in any way? 

IME grounding boxes are especially effective on chassis & shields. This also indicates to me that it deals with anti-statics. What do you think Jud?

 

Well, it isn’t as if your equipment is shuffling across the carpet building up static charges - at least I hope not! :)  As marce says, your equipment shouldn’t be building up static charge because it always has a place to discharge to.  (It is the same as if you were always touching grounded metal - you wouldn’t build up static charge either.)

 

So granting that you are hearing some difference, either you are affecting ground loops/noise in the system (in which case, as mansr says, any connection such as a simple wire should suffice; or better still, simplifying wiring in your system to the extent possible and paying careful attention to grounding to minimize any ground, leakage, or other noise currents); or the wire to the box is acting as an antenna and you are indeed changing the sound by actually adding noise.

 

I personally think the first of these (changing ground currents/noise) is more likely in most people’s systems, though of course I don’t know about yours in particular.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.



×
×
  • Create New...