Let's talk about SOTM SMS-200 ULTRA

[GregCA]

HI Chris,

 

Glad you got your SMS-200 ultra and SPS-500 and you are happy with what you are hearing.  I also read back through the thread and saw your posts regarding a Powerline LAN.  I also use a Powerline LAN to connect all my components in my HT and 2 channel system and wonder if my sound quality is degraded as a result.

 

Greg

[HardrockInMiniMac]

Hi GregCA,

 

I can't say yet as I am still using PowerLAN in my house, not for Streaming no more but in general. 

 

In a few weeks time my electrician will drill some holes into my floors so that I can run CAT/LAN from directly from the switch next to my router upstairs down ground level to my SOTM and then compare that to receiving Wireless as I do now.

 

Chris

[GregCA]

1 hour ago, HardrockInMiniMac said:

Hi GregCA,

 

I can't say yet as I am still using PowerLAN in my house, not for Streaming no more but in general. 

 

In a few weeks time my electrician will drill some holes into my floors so that I can run CAT/LAN from directly from the switch next to my router upstairs down ground level to my SOTM and then compare that to receiving Wireless as I do now.

 

Chris

 

Hi Chris,

 

That is a big task to drill holes, I hope that pays off with better sound. 

 

I am seriously limited to where my only option is either a PowerLAN or a wireless extender.  My setup is on the ground level of my home with a cement slab.  The router and stereo system are on opposite corners of the house in different rooms.  I cannot use coax connections because I run DirecTV with more than one receiver. 

 

My analog setup is where I have spent the most time and money to get the best sound, and I find that my digital play back is improving to where it is getting close to the sound of the vinyl tracks that I have ripped.  

 

I decided to get an UltraRendu and Ultra LPS-1.2 power supply to stream my digital music.  I cannot wait to hear if that improves over my USB direct that I have now.

 

Greg

[HardrockInMiniMac]

Greg, It will improve for sure. The SOTM-Setup is a lot more detailed and refined than MacMini with IFI micro-iUSB3.0. I am sure UltraRendu and LPS 1.2. will play on the same level. 

 

In my setup, nothing compares to vinyl though. 

 

Back to the SOtM-Ultra, I have spent some hours with the new setup now and I am sure there is a distortion in the background. I suspect this could either be coming from my alarm-system which runs on GSM or still from PowerLAN. 

 

I am not too much concerned as a direct cable connection through the ceiling will help narrowing it down. 

 

I will do a dry run tomorrow with everything else switched off. 

 

Will see,

Chris

[skatbelt]

2 hours ago, HardrockInMiniMac said:

In my setup, nothing compares to vinyl though. 

 

Just try a better D to A conversion.

[bigblue]

23 minutes ago, skatbelt said:

 

Just try a better D to A conversion.

 

That could work. But it might also be the source material that is the bottle neck. IMO the sometimes experienced lack of timbre, presence, room info, emotions that the digital material might suffer from, is not because it is digital. It is how the material has ben handled through the chain. 

[HardrockInMiniMac]

13 hours ago, skatbelt said:

 

Just try a better D to A conversion.

Hi, what exactly do you mean?

[HardrockInMiniMac]

Update on remaining distortion:

 

Found a recommendation here somewhere (or someone just doing this) and put a simple Netgear 105E switch between the Media Bridge and the SOTM. Cleans up the replay quality and takes away the background distortion and some of the harshness without compromising the still unbelievable detail level the SOtM provides in my setup. Current chain:

 

Synology NAS -> Main switch -> LAN -> PowerLAN Host -> PowerLAN Client -> Wireless -> Asus AC87 Media bridge -> Switch -> SOTM

 

Next steps:

• Found a suitable power bank for the Asus AC87 and ordered. Will try running it on battery only eliminating the PSU.
• Ordered some recommended CAT/LAN cable to connect with SOtM
• Ordered LAN Isolator to go in before SOtM

In a few weeks I will be able to compare direct cable connection between Main switch and SOtM

with Asus AC87 in access point mode and directly connected to the main switch sending wireless to Asus AC87 in Media bridge mode. No more PowerLAN in the house then no more.

 

Chris

 

 

 

 

[mfin]

I am running an Asus EA-AC87 into a switch then into sMS200ultra (then into tX-USBultra).

 

The switch I have gone through testing 9 different ones now, and am running battery power on the favourite (some sound pretty much the same, some don't). I will be comparing this solution (total spend £35) with an AQVox Switch very soon. Once I've done that I will pop back and list all the details.

 

(Note that some of the 9 were Netgear FS105, GS105, GS108, GS308, all tried with and without Swenson shunt, and none of those combinations have been winners so far for me).

 

I also have a battery pack arriving for the Asus EA-AC87 to try on that, which will be arriving some time this week (at the moment running a Swenson mains shunt).

 

Network cables at the moment are a 7.5 meter Meicord Opal from the EA-AC87 into the switch and a Supra Cat-8 1 meter into the sMS200-ultra (that final cable I have a Ghent ET-02 on the way to compare, but also might try an AQVox cable and others).

 

I doubt it if I will try a Lan Isolator, the Pink Faun was on the radar, but with the network all being driven by batteries it doesn't make so much sense to me, maybe I might. I will certainly be trying this if I find the AQVox Switch (£400 version) beats my current battery driven favourite switch.

 

(Luckily I already owned half a dozen of these switches already)

 

 

 

 

 

[austinpop]

44 minutes ago, HardrockInMiniMac said:

Update on remaining distortion:

 

Found a recommendation here somewhere (or someone just doing this) and put a simple Netgear 105E switch between the Media Bridge and the SOTM. Cleans up the replay quality and takes away the background distortion and some of the harshness without compromising the still unbelievable detail level the SOtM provides in my setup. Current chain:

 

Synology NAS -> Main switch -> LAN -> PowerLAN Host -> PowerLAN Client -> Wireless -> Asus AC87 Media bridge -> Switch -> SOTM

 

Next steps:

• Found a suitable power bank for the Asus AC87 and ordered. Will try running it on battery only eliminating the PSU.
• Ordered some recommended CAT/LAN cable to connect with SOtM
• Ordered LAN Isolator to go in before SOtM

In a few weeks I will be able to compare direct cable connection between Main switch and SOtM

with Asus AC87 in access point mode and directly connected to the main switch sending wireless to Asus AC87 in Media bridge mode. No more PowerLAN in the house then no more.

 

Chris

 

 

 

 

 

That’s good. If the Netgear switch helped, make sure the power supply to the switch is also ground shunted. 

[skatbelt]

1 hour ago, HardrockInMiniMac said:

Hi, what exactly do you mean?

 

I read from your signature that your are using the Lyngdorf TDAI-2170/SDA-2400 combination. So in your chain the Lyngdorf takes care of reconstructing the digital signal to an analog feed for your loudspeakers. This was my chain as well for quit some time until I found out that a lot of DAC's (say in the > 2K range) are much better in this job. And yes, I am aware that this introduces an extra A/D > D/A conversion. Try and find out. Borrow a Chord HUGO 2 for instance, assuming that your Lyngdorf has the optional analog input module and that you have some high quality RCA cables lying around.

[HardrockInMiniMac]

2 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

That’s good. If the Netgear switch helped, make sure the power supply to the switch is also ground shunted. 

 

Hi austinpop,

 

can you please send me a link as to how this ground shunt works (also called John Swenson shunt)? I have searched for a while and find it mentioned many times, but what is the instruction? 

 

Many thanks,

Chris

[HardrockInMiniMac]

2 hours ago, skatbelt said:

 

I read from your signature that your are using the Lyngdorf TDAI-2170/SDA-2400 combination. So in your chain the Lyngdorf takes care of reconstructing the digital signal to an analog feed for your loudspeakers. 

Hi skatbelt, thanks for your advise. 

 

You have a fantastic, alternativ setup. I cannot go that way because I want to keep vinyl in the chain and with your setup and cannot see an analogue in for that but you could be using Dirac Live on the Mini to get room correction. That is exactly where I started you have maxed that out, cool.

 

What puzzles me is that Lyngdorf say, they actual do no D to A conversion and keep the signal digital end to end and therefore they recommended for me to use the Digital Coax interlink between 2170 and 2400. 

 

What do you exactly mean?

 

Chris

[austinpop]

25 minutes ago, HardrockInMiniMac said:

can you please send me a link as to how this ground shunt works (also called John Swenson shunt)? I have searched for a while and find it mentioned many times, but what is the instruction? 

 

Hi Chris,

 

This post is a good starting point.  Shortly after that post, there are links people have posted for the various parts. It's easy to build one even if you're not a DIYer, as long as you can strip wire, and use a screwdriver.

 

Alternatively, you can buy an iFi Groundhog off of Amazon for $50, which involves no DIY.

[HardrockInMiniMac]

5 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Hi Chris,

 

This post is a good starting point.  Shortly after that post, there are links people have posted for the various parts. It's easy to build one even if you're not a DIYer, as long as you can strip wire, and use a screwdriver.

 

Alternatively, you can buy an iFi Groundhog off of Amazon for $50, which involves no DIY.

 

Alright, will follow up on this. The iFi Groundhog got some bad reviews, did you try it yourself and does it work?

[austinpop]

2 minutes ago, HardrockInMiniMac said:

 

Alright, will follow up on this. The iFi Groundhog got some bad reviews, did you try it yourself and does it work?

 

I tried one briefly, and it seems to work fine.

 

BTW - I have lost tracks of my own postings, as I just found this, which describes my experiments:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?do=findComment&comment=734993

 

[HardrockInMiniMac]

I am using link aggregation with my NAS as the switch is supporting it. I am looking for reasons why this could add more problems than solution...

 

Any thought or experience?

 

Chris

[skatbelt]

38 minutes ago, HardrockInMiniMac said:

Hi skatbelt, thanks for your advise. 

 

You have a fantastic, alternativ setup. I cannot go that way because I want to keep vinyl in the chain and with your setup and cannot see an analogue in for that but you could be using Dirac Live on the Mini to get room correction. That is exactly where I started you have maxed that out, cool.

 

What puzzles me is that Lyngdorf say, they actual do no D to A conversion and keep the signal digital end to end and therefore they recommended for me to use the Digital Coax interlink between 2170 and 2400. 

 

What do you exactly mean?

 

Chris

 

Hi Chris,

 

Lyngdorfs integrated amplifiers keep all but the last stages of amplification in the digital domain. Ultimately the last stage - driving the speakers - is analogue conversion. The principles of a power-DAC. I can understand that my statement is puzzling you. I was puzzled too. My insight now is that the way the digital source is reconstructed is key. In Chord DAC's this is done by reconstruction filters with up to a million taps (DAVE/BLUmk2 combination). This is one technique but I also had very good results in my chain with R2R DAC's. Metrum and Aqua for example. Compared to these DAC's Lyngdorf direct digital inputs sound ehh.. digital, somewhat harsh and most importantly, not musical and emotional. By no means I want to disqualify the Lyngdorf. I really love it as a pre-amp, amp and as a digital crossover. And I can't live without RoomPerfect either.

 

Greetings,

Sander

[HardrockInMiniMac]

Hi Sander,

 

I agree with what you are saying. One reason for me to order the new one and see if they have tweaked in the more warm direction. 

 

Although, you know, with vinyl it sounds great and not digital. The CD-2 also sounds rather digital too. But the resolution of details, oh boy, that is really fantastic. 

 

I am awaiting a couple of tweaks shortly, let's wait and see.

 

Thanks again,

 

Chris

[GregCA]

31 minutes ago, HardrockInMiniMac said:

Although, you know, with vinyl it sounds great and not digital. The CD-2 also sounds rather digital too. But the resolution of details, oh boy, that is really fantastic. 

 

Hi Chris,

 

For digital playback I found an Exogal Comet Plus was smooth and musical (without rolling off details).  When I listen to my vinyl rips it gets close enough without running more hours on an expensive phono cartridge for tracks I have already recorded.

 

Greg

[HardrockInMiniMac]

Update: 

 

Some interesting findings re my beloved Synology NAS. I ran a 20m cable directly from the switch to the SOtM last night which made sound better right away. 

 

I had purchased a few HiRes tracks over the weekend and was about to upload them to the NAS. Again I heard a significant sound glitch. So I went to check my Synology resources. There were network peaks plus I have a lot of services running as this is the families NAS, none of them were active but all of them loaded to the internal RAM for sure.

 

So just for testing purpose I began to shut down services one by one while listening to music. Sound became better and better, even with a direct cable connection.

 

-> Roon Audio files back on the MacMini internal SSD. 

 

Chris

 

[HardrockInMiniMac]

Update:

 

The Asus Wireless Media Bridge  runs on battery power now and so does the micro-iUSBb3.0.

 

Not only do I save two slots on the power strip but I do not have to worry about HF coming upstream anymore.

 

I listened to music 2 hrs straight in this setup and the battery was down to 84% percent only for the Asus. I would call that sustainable.

 

The difference is audible and results in a calmer, clearer and more open sound and stage with substantially more PRAT reminding me of my NAIM-years. 

 

Right now, battery seems to be the path to go in my setup.

 

Chris

[zoltan]

I have just measured the current requirement of SMS-200 Ultra. It is between 0.7-0.8A when booting and constant 0.73 when streaming using HQPlayer NAA. So the LPS-1 is well within its limits.

If you connect a USB drive to it, it'll probably jump much higher (unless the USB drive has its own power supply). 

[ClothEars]

My attached HDD has it's own power supply and the SMS-200 Ultra (12V version) idles on about 650mA but it does kick up to 1.2A for a second or two when booting up.  I am also using a battery for the SMS-200 Ultra.

[zoltan]

Yes, it's important, I forgot to say that mine is also on 12V. It is less important but at the time of measurement, it was powered by Uptone JS-2.