Let's talk about SOTM SMS-200 ULTRA

[doraymon]

11 hours ago, HardrockInMiniMac said:

 

ROFL - sure

You can read for sure but can you quote?

"I do know for a fact that poweline adapters can audibly mess things up simply by being plugged in near hifi, perhaps even simply being in the same house. I could prove this in 10 seconds flat in my house."

I truly don’t understand your irony, really! 

Maybe it’s due to a language barrier.

But hey! If you are happy!

[PeteGardner]

Stay with us mfin. We all (most of us at least) find your posts helpful.

[zoltan]

Seriously guys? I don't know why people get so carried away. The only thing I asked for was posts more directly related to the topic. 

Network bridges, linear power supplies, switches, etc are discussed in other threads and I didn't see anything in the posts here that was specific/unique to the SMS-200 ultra. We already have one thread that is about anything and everything... I don't think I need to name it but I feel one such thread is enough.  

[DrPo]

Hi all, fist post here but like some others who have contributed to this thread I have been a member of other audio-related forums.

 

intro (you can skip to the QUESTION part if in a hurry!)

 

My main system is NAS (QNAP) + streamer (NAIM NDX) and my small office system was till recently PC -> USB DAC based.

 

I came by SoTM when evaluating options for removing the PC from the audio chain in the office system. Got an SMS200 and after the unavoidable initial hickups I am very happy with the product. I experimented with most modes (Squezzebox with iPeng, Roon running a demo license) but have settled in the DLNA mode using the SMS 200 in “dual” server (running minim server off an attached USB disk) plus renderer mode.

 

This has now picked my interest as I would like to replace my QNAP NAS with an SMS200 (or ultra) running purely as minim server, the reason being that I have no possibility to run long Ethernet cables in the living room and the NAS on the rack makes a perceptible noise at listening distances. Moreover a NAS is not optimized for  audio. My library is small (less than 1 TB) so I have no need for chunky storage.

 

of course I am aware of products like the SoTM SMS1000, the ones by Innuos, Antipodes etc which are real servers also able to run Roon Core but the6 are expensive and offer more things that I don’t really need. In particular I don’t care about integration of stream8ng services or USB output as I am strictly interested in server DLNA mode.

 

After this long intro here comes the  question :

 

to have an optimized minim server based on an SMS200 type product for my main system:

 

- would I benefit from an SMS 200Ultra over the simple 200?

- would an external clock help? 

- would a LPS help?

- is there a way to have a USB disk not powered by the SMS200 (or Ultra) itself but externally to reduce the strain on the SMS itself?

 

Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. My feeling is that the clock etc optimizations would be relevant for the USB output which I don’t need but I would be happy to be otherwise...

 

Greg

 

 

[HardrockInMiniMac]

On 2.3.2018 at 3:52 AM, PeteGardner said:

Stay with us mfin. We all (most of us at least) find your posts helpful.

Yes please

[HardrockInMiniMac]

5 hours ago, DrPo said:

 :

to have an optimized minim server based on an SMS200 type product for my main system:

 

- would I benefit from an SMS 200Ultra over the simple 200?

- would an external clock help? 

- would a LPS help?

 

Would you benefit? I have answers to pick from:

1. Yes

2. No

3. Dont know

4. Experts will know and will tell

[d_elm]

8 hours ago, DrPo said:

Hi all, fist post here but like some others who have contributed to this thread I have been a member of other audio-related forums.

 

intro (you can skip to the QUESTION part if in a hurry!)

 

My main system is NAS (QNAP) + streamer (NAIM NDX) and my small office system was till recently PC -> USB DAC based.

 

I came by SoTM when evaluating options for removing the PC from the audio chain in the office system. Got an SMS200 and after the unavoidable initial hickups I am very happy with the product. I experimented with most modes (Squezzebox with iPeng, Roon running a demo license) but have settled in the DLNA mode using the SMS 200 in “dual” server (running minim server off an attached USB disk) plus renderer mode.

 

This has now picked my interest as I would like to replace my QNAP NAS with an SMS200 (or ultra) running purely as minim server, the reason being that I have no possibility to run long Ethernet cables in the living room and the NAS on the rack makes a perceptible noise at listening distances. Moreover a NAS is not optimized for  audio. My library is small (less than 1 TB) so I have no need for chunky storage.

 

of course I am aware of products like the SoTM SMS1000, the ones by Innuos, Antipodes etc which are real servers also able to run Roon Core but the6 are expensive and offer more things that I don’t really need. In particular I don’t care about integration of stream8ng services or USB output as I am strictly interested in server DLNA mode.

 

After this long intro here comes the  question :

 

to have an optimized minim server based on an SMS200 type product for my main system:

 

- would I benefit from an SMS 200Ultra over the simple 200?

- would an external clock help? 

- would a LPS help?

- is there a way to have a USB disk not powered by the SMS200 (or Ultra) itself but externally to reduce the strain on the SMS itself?

 

Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. My feeling is that the clock etc optimizations would be relevant for the USB output which I don’t need but I would be happy to be otherwise...

 

Greg

 

 

Greg, there are many options to implement SOtM components and the best power and an external master clock are a step in the right direction.  Read the first post in the following thread and follow the links.

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/

[ClothEars]

@DrPo

 

- would I benefit from an SMS 200Ultra over the simple 200?

Anyone would as it does sound better with the flash clock, but the software is identical so they share implementation abilities.

- would an external clock help? 

You could add the SOtM clock but why not just go with the Ultra?

- would a LPS help?

Yes, SOtM has one to suit (though not a LPS), the SPS-500.

- is there a way to have a USB disk not powered by the SMS200 (or Ultra) itself but externally to reduce the strain on the SMS itself?

Yes - buy a disc caddy and stick your drive in that.

 

There is an awful lot of information provided about the SMS-200 on this thread that you should read if you have done so already.

You could find all the answers to your questions in this thread. Hope that helps.  

 

[DrPo]

5 hours ago, d_elm said:

Greg, there are many options to implement SOtM components and the best power and an external master clock are a step in the right direction.  Read the first post in the following thread and follow the links.

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/

 

Thanks d_elm, it was in fact this thread that prompted me into signing up here on CA.

[DrPo]

5 hours ago, ClothEars said:

@DrPo

 

- would I benefit from an SMS 200Ultra over the simple 200?

Anyone would as it does sound better with the flash clock, but the software is identical so they share implementation abilities.

- would an external clock help? 

You could add the SOtM clock but why not just go with the Ultra?

- would a LPS help?

Yes, SOtM has one to suit (though not a LPS), the SPS-500.

- is there a way to have a USB disk not powered by the SMS200 (or Ultra) itself but externally to reduce the strain on the SMS itself?

Yes - buy a disc caddy and stick your drive in that.

 

There is an awful lot of information provided about the SMS-200 on this thread that you should read if you have done so already.

You could find all the answers to your questions in this thread. Hope that helps.  

 

Thanks ClothEars, I have to

 

5 hours ago, ClothEars said:

@DrPo

 

- would I benefit from an SMS 200Ultra over the simple 200?

Anyone would as it does sound better with the flash clock, but the software is identical so they share implementation abilities.

- would an external clock help? 

You could add the SOtM clock but why not just go with the Ultra?

- would a LPS help?

Yes, SOtM has one to suit (though not a LPS), the SPS-500.

- is there a way to have a USB disk not powered by the SMS200 (or Ultra) itself but externally to reduce the strain on the SMS itself?

Yes - buy a disc caddy and stick your drive in that.

 

There is an awful lot of information provided about the SMS-200 on this thread that you should read if you have done so already.

You could find all the answers to your questions in this thread. Hope that helps.  

 

.Thanks ClothEars, I have tried to read through but the commentary addresses predominantly the SQ of the USB output. Clearly the answers to the 3 first questions I posed are “yes” if one wants to feed a USB DAC. My point is how to optimize the server function of the SMS200; I may have looked cursorarily but don’t seem to find this type of comparison..hence my post here..

[airguitar]

On 03/03/2018 at 4:59 PM, DrPo said:

After this long intro here comes the  question :

 

to have an optimized minim server based on an SMS200 type product for my main system:

 

- would I benefit from an SMS 200Ultra over the simple 200?

- would an external clock help? 

- would a LPS help?

- is there a way to have a USB disk not powered by the SMS200 (or Ultra) itself but externally to reduce the strain on the SMS itself?

 

Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. My feeling is that the clock etc optimizations would be relevant for the USB output which I don’t need but I would be happy to be otherwise...

 

Greg

 

 

 

is there a way to have a USB disk not powered by the SMS200 (or Ultra) itself but externally to reduce the strain on the SMS itself?

 

On that question alone - you are only asking for a small amount of storage so surely the internal mini SD card provided with the sMS-200 Ultra will be enough without any need to add anything else?

 

[DrPo]

On 3/30/2018 at 2:09 PM, airguitar said:

 

is there a way to have a USB disk not powered by the SMS200 (or Ultra) itself but externally to reduce the strain on the SMS itself?

 

On that question alone - you are only asking for a small amount of storage so surely the internal mini SD card provided with the sMS-200 Ultra will be enough without any need to add anything else?

 

 

It might be, however in the meanwhile SoTM clarified via emai that the SMS200 is not designed to be a server and to optimize the server function one has to go for a dedicated server solution. I am quite happy using it as such (server) but have given up on notions of upgrading to Ultra or adding clocks to optimize the server function. 

[nbpf]

42 minutes ago, DrPo said:

 

It might be, however in the meanwhile SoTM clarified via emai that the SMS200 is not designed to be a server and to optimize the server function one has to go for a dedicated server solution. I am quite happy using it as such (server) but have given up on notions of upgrading to Ultra or adding clocks to optimize the server function. 

Thanks for the feedback!

 

I have been considering using a sMS-200 or a aMS-200ultra as a server + renderer solution as an alternative to my FitPc3 and Raspberry Pi 3 + Allo DigiOne. Both the FitPC3 and the RPi+DigiOne are running MinimServer and upmpdcli under minimal Debian and Raspbian distributions. 

 

My plan was to connect the 200 (200ultra) to a Naim DAC via a USB to S/PDIF interface. I have eventually given up on this plan as I could not find enough information on using the 200s as servers in this forum and, more importantly, I decided that I do not want to rely on a system that depends on a OS which is poorly documented. I also could not find out whether I could install Debian or another Linux distribution on the 200 devices.

 

In your specific case, the 200 is likely connected to the NDX via ethernet switch and its dedicated USB output is unused. According to the monster thread "A novel way ..." mentioned above, it would be preferable to have the 200 directly connected to the NDX. However, this would require the 200 to act as an access point and to provide an IP address to the NDX. I guess that the 200 cannot be setup to act as an access point per user switch. This is perhaps one of the reasons why SoTM say that the 200 and the 200ultra are not designed to act as servers, although it should not be difficult to install the packages needed to setup the devices as access points.

 

If you have a USB to S/PDIF interface around (I currently use a Schiit Eitr between the FitPC3 and the Naim DAC), you could also try connecting the USB output of the sMS-200 directly to the S/PDIF input of the NDX using the interface. This way you would avoid LAN streaming, bypass the streaming card of the NDX and only use its DAC. I would expect this setup to give better sound quality with the 200ultra than with the 200. It also would allow you to stream Tidal and Qobuz contents to the NDX in case you would become interested in these services in the future. If you happen to try USB streaming with the 200, please let us know how it compares to streaming over the LAN.

 

 

[DrPo]

8 hours ago, nbpf said:

Thanks for the feedback!

 

I have been considering using a sMS-200 or a aMS-200ultra as a server + renderer solution as an alternative to my FitPc3 and Raspberry Pi 3 + Allo DigiOne. Both the FitPC3 and the RPi+DigiOne are running MinimServer and upmpdcli under minimal Debian and Raspbian distributions. 

 

My plan was to connect the 200 (200ultra) to a Naim DAC via a USB to S/PDIF interface. I have eventually given up on this plan as I could not find enough information on using the 200s as servers in this forum and, more importantly, I decided that I do not want to rely on a system that depends on a OS which is poorly documented. I also could not find out whether I could install Debian or another Linux distribution on the 200 devices.

 

In your specific case, the 200 is likely connected to the NDX via ethernet switch and its dedicated USB output is unused. According to the monster thread "A novel way ..." mentioned above, it would be preferable to have the 200 directly connected to the NDX. However, this would require the 200 to act as an access point and to provide an IP address to the NDX. I guess that the 200 cannot be setup to act as an access point per user switch. This is perhaps one of the reasons why SoTM say that the 200 and the 200ultra are not designed to act as servers, although it should not be difficult to install the packages needed to setup the devices as access points.

 

If you have a USB to S/PDIF interface around (I currently use a Schiit Eitr between the FitPC3 and the Naim DAC), you could also try connecting the USB output of the sMS-200 directly to the S/PDIF input of the NDX using the interface. This way you would avoid LAN streaming, bypass the streaming card of the NDX and only use its DAC. I would expect this setup to give better sound quality with the 200ultra than with the 200. It also would allow you to stream Tidal and Qobuz contents to the NDX in case you would become interested in these services in the future. If you happen to try USB streaming with the 200, please let us know how it compares to streaming over the LAN.

 

 

Hi NBPF, good feedback, I do read your posts over the NAIM Forum btw... One of my closest friends is getting the Eitr and I will indeed check it out. In the meanwhile:

 

- I mostly use the SMS200 as my main minim server despite not being reference level, I don't detect a significant degradation of sound versus between SMS200 as minim server over WiFi vs QNAP in wired mode (as I still hate the sound of the QNAP between tracks)

 

- I am contemplating a very drastic scale down move to a true all in one server + player (but still reference solution) like the Burmester 151.

[nbpf]

21 hours ago, DrPo said:

Hi NBPF, good feedback, I do read your posts over the NAIM Forum btw... One of my closest friends is getting the Eitr and I will indeed check it out. In the meanwhile:

 

- I mostly use the SMS200 as my main minim server despite not being reference level, I don't detect a significant degradation of sound versus between SMS200 as minim server over WiFi vs QNAP in wired mode (as I still hate the sound of the QNAP between tracks)

 

- I am contemplating a very drastic scale down move to a true all in one server + player (but still reference solution) like the Burmester 151.

Interesting, how do you come to the Burmester 151? For some reason the Burmester range of products seem to be mentioned very rarely in this forum. If you are considering an all in one server + player, you could also have a look at the Antipodes (CX or DX) and at the Innuos Zenith. They have been discussed, among others, at and after 

. Best, nbpf

[DrPo]

40 minutes ago, nbpf said:

Interesting, how do you come to the Burmester 151? For some reason the Burmester range of products seem to be mentioned very rarely in this forum. If you are considering an all in one server + player, you could also have a look at the Antipodes (CX or DX) and at the Innuos Zenith. They have been discussed, among others, at and after 

. Best, nbpf

My dealer carries the brand and I have compared it with an HDX+NDAC combination...it’s ahead

[Superdad]

22 hours ago, nbpf said:

Interesting, how do you come to the Burmester 151? For some reason the Burmester range of products seem to be mentioned very rarely in this forum.

 

Could be because of the price.  The Burmester 151 is $25K.  That’s a lot to invest for a component in a fast-changing segment of the market.

[mfin]

The last sMS-200ultra eunhasu update mentioned earlier that brought the support for native dsd for the Brooklyn Dac+ is proving nice. It means once selected in the Roon Ready option that Roon Rock and upscale all the way to DSD256 instead of being limited to DSD128 when using DOP.

 

Liking it.

 

I was trying to ascertain any differences when setting Roon Rock to upscale to DOP DSD128 vs Native DSD128, but once I started listening to it setup for Native DSD256 it sounds on initial impressions the best that it has.

[nbpf]

On 3.4.2018 at 5:08 PM, Superdad said:

 

Could be because of the price.  The Burmester 151 is $25K.  That’s a lot to invest for a component in a fast-changing segment of the market.

You are right, I did not check the price. It's a pity, they are just round the corner: so near and yet so far!

[ducatirider]

Is it just me or does anyone else have issues getting these darn torx screws off?  They seem to be cranked down really tight.  I just want to change the voltage on mine and maybe add some ers paper.  Do I need to heat them up with a hairdryer or squirt wd40 on them?

[d_elm]

5 minutes ago, ducatirider said:

Is it just me or does anyone else have issues getting these darn torx screws off?  They seem to be cranked down really tight.  I just want to change the voltage on mine and maybe add some ers paper.  Do I need to heat them up with a hairdryer or squirt wd40 on them?

Are you using a 6 point T8 ?  The usual torx is 5 point.  I use a 1/4" socket ratchet.

[ducatirider]

3 hours ago, d_elm said:

Are you using a 6 point T8 ?  The usual torx is 5 point.  I use a 1/4" socket ratchet.

yes.  all my torx drivers are 6 pointed.

[doraymon]

Apologies for the interruption, I am selling my pristine SOtM sMS-200ultra, tX-USBultra and sPS-500 trio bought in August/September 2017.

Contact me privately if you are interested. 

[davide256]

On 4/3/2018 at 11:08 AM, Superdad said:

 

Could be because of the price.  The Burmester 151 is $25K.  That’s a lot to invest for a component in a fast-changing segment of the market.

Agree. Excellent all in one box solutions can be had for around $5k... that will be a lot easier to stomach reselling a few years later. Would love to see

SoTM/Sonore team up with a good DAC partner for a 1 box solution as I still think media drives should be separate from the digital electronics 

for server solution and really hate the spaghetti connected mini component model with proliferating tribble power supplies.

[Blade1001]

I recently bought the SoTM trifecta from @doraymon  (thanks for the smooth transaction Dom).

 

As neither the 200Ultra or the tX-USBUltra have external clock inputs - if I wanted to add a master clock further down the line, does anyone know how easy it is to add this (ideally without sending it off toe SoTM)?

 

I note by looking through the top grill that the board (presumably the clock board) has a small MCX style socket on it labelled "75 Ohm IN", and the rear panel already has a hole cut where the BNC socket, for the clock input, normally sits.

 

Would it therefore simply be a case of adding a cable like this:

 

Tengko 0.5ft BNC Female to MCX Male Right Angle Connector Mini Adapter Assembly

 

The manual on the SoTM sCLK-EX board (which looks identical to the one in the 200 and txUSB) seems to suggest nothing else is required?:

 

SoTM sCLK-EX Manual (Last page)

 

According to the manual there is an LED on the board that lights up once the sync to an external clock is locked. So I guess if that lights up, its works?

 

Any thoughts?