LowMidHigh Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 A SOtM newbie question: Can I stream SoundCloud off the 200? I’ve been told I can run Squeezelite on the 200 and then install a SoundCloud plug-in. But I’m unfamiliar with those products. Do I have to get a Logitech Media Server running somewhere? I’m trying to keep it as simple as possible. Merely connect an SSD to the 200 for local playback and stream off SC. Looking forward to being educated. Stereo [Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10 SE120] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 3] Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350] Surround [Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] Link to comment
LowMidHigh Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 1 hour ago, auricgoldfinger said: Search the "Novel Way..." thread for the master clock comparison. The Mutec REF10 is the way to go between the OCX10 and REF10. Last time I checked, the Antelope clock is not something you would want. I've never hear d of the NCTR clock. +1 There are many vendors in that marketplace, but not all clocks are cut from the same cloth. For audio applications, a certain phase noise figure shouldn't be exceeded, among other parameters. You can save money and buy a Chinese product off eBay, but in all likelihood you'll end up discovering how those people have earned thier reputation for junky products. Mutec is a very good choice, but you may consider TEAK and SOtM as well. Cybershaft isn't a good option: curated chips, only one output that is impedence selectable (a bad idea) and no return policy. Stereo [Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10 SE120] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 3] Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350] Surround [Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] Link to comment
LowMidHigh Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 7 hours ago, flkin said: Your equipment sounds like the same kind of group that is already being discussed in the Novel Way thread so you probably have read some of the work and discoveries there so you know that the sMS-200ultra already contains a decent clock. So to make the next jump I’d say you would have to go for a decent clock. The measure of a good master 10Mhz clock seems to be defined by both a low phase noise and good power supply. I have personally used the Mutec Ref10 and the Cybershaft OP14 so can vouch that these are significant steps above the basic sCLK-EX board found in the sMS-200ultra. Coming down the phase noise curve is expensive and moving just a single dBc/Hz can increase the price of the clock significantly. In the Cybershaft case the model OP14 represents -114 dBc/Hz at 1Hz and is significant pricier than the OP13 which measures -113 dBc/Hz at 1Hz. The Ref10 measures -116 dBc/Hz which is just 2 dBC/Hz less than the OP14 but is far pricier but does sound clearly better. I suspect this has also something to do with it’s well designed power supply too. The latest Cybershafts units of a month ago have phase noises even lower than. That said, I don’t know whether their power supplies are as well designed as the Mutec’s. In summary go for the lowest phase noise and best supply matched to the clock that you can afford. Then of course there’s the other way of not using master clocks at all but getting good OCXO clocks at the right frequencies close to where they are needed most eg CPU, USB, LAN etc. But too far off topic to discuss further. There are other clock threads that discuss this at length. It's off the topic, but Mutec benefits from a steel enclosure and a square wave as well. It's designed for audio applications, whereas the Cybershaft is more general purposes, as the man behind it readily admits. If you get the Cybershaft OT16 with 3 output ports, the price isn't that far from Mutec, which has 8 ports. However, the omh selector on the Cybershaft is a poor idea, at least according to Alex from Uptone. Stereo [Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10 SE120] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 3] Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350] Surround [Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] Link to comment
LowMidHigh Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 14 minutes ago, flkin said: I wonder if anyone can hear the difference between 50 and 75 ohm ports or cables. I regularly mix them without issue although it’s frowned upon! Especially with such short distances we use in HiFi. Also I wonder if square wave is ‘better’ than sine wave clock signals. No analogue wave outputs are totally square so it’s really very steep waves anyway which have issues of their own. Both Cybershaft and SOtM uses Sine outputs with their own good reasons. My point is that nothing beats listening to the equipment in ones own system and forming your own opinion (I know this might be difficult in reality) , I would take other people’s opinion with a pinch of salt and their theories with even less authority. That said, I love the Ref10 and think it’s one of the better clocks out there. Stereo [Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10 SE120] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 3] Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350] Surround [Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] Link to comment
LowMidHigh Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 15 minutes ago, flkin said: I wonder if anyone can hear the difference between 50 and 75 ohm ports or cables. I regularly mix them without issue although it’s frowned upon! Especially with such short distances we use in HiFi. Also I wonder if square wave is ‘better’ than sine wave clock signals. No analogue wave outputs are totally square so it’s really very steep waves anyway which have issues of their own. Both Cybershaft and SOtM uses Sine outputs with their own good reasons. My point is that nothing beats listening to the equipment in ones own system and forming your own opinion (I know this might be difficult in reality) , I would take other people’s opinion with a pinch of salt and their theories with even less authority. That said, I love the Ref10 and think it’s one of the better clocks out there. I wonder if anyone can hear the difference between 50 and 75 ohm ports or cables. I regularly mix them without issue although it’s frowned upon! Especially with such short distances we use in HiFi. I never second guess engineers—above my pay grade. I just adhere to the specs, like a good boy. If it didn’t matter, the spec wouldn’t exist. Furthermore, the more resolving the system, the easier the detection. That’s not an affront but an observation. I’m certain your system is incredible. Also I wonder if square wave is ‘better’ than sine wave clock signals. No analogue wave outputs are totally square so it’s really very steep waves anyway which have issues of their own. Both Cybershaft and SOtM uses Sine outputs with their own good reasons. From combing multiple sources: square wave sets that gate with more precision than wave. Square is more difficult to implement. My point is that nothing beats listening to the equipment in ones own system and forming your own opinion (I know this might be difficult in reality) , I concur. I would take other people’s opinion with a pinch of salt and their theories with even less authority. Which can be said of your opinions and theories as well. In fact, following your logic, we shouldn’t have any discussions at all. That said, I love the Ref10 and think it’s one of the better clocks out there. Mutec is a serious company with pro heritage, which is a big plus in my book. Happy new year. Stereo [Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10 SE120] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 3] Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350] Surround [Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] Link to comment
LowMidHigh Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 36 minutes ago, flkin said: I speak mostly of my own experiences with the Ref10, OP14 and a bunch of 50 and 75 ohm cables. As hinted above, my latest system has exceeded these already and I don’t used external clocks any more. Isnt it a great time to be an audiophile and to have so many options? Happy New Year too, ? May I inquire what is your system, and how it has removed the need for external clocks? Stereo [Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10 SE120] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 3] Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350] Surround [Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] Link to comment
LowMidHigh Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 26 minutes ago, flkin said: It's not really about the sMS-200 ultra so I'll let you know privately? pmed... Stereo [Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10 SE120] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 3] Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350] Surround [Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] Link to comment
LowMidHigh Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 1 hour ago, zephyr24069 said: "...whereas the Cybershaft is more general purposes, as the man behind it readily admits." My only question on this is when and where did he state this exactly? The Cybershafts are designed for best in class audio playback (or recording chain should units take a 10Mhz master clock input) as well as video playback/recording should the units take a 10Mhz master clock input. The latest units also have purpose-built audio-grade linear-regulated power supplies, again, because the designer targets high-end audio playback and knows the importance of units that either tether to quality LRPSUs or have them internally. Taken from direct quotes from the designer conversations via email. High respect goes out to Mutec, Uptone, Esoteric and many others on this and related threads with high-end units of various types but let's not write about Cybershaft in way that implies they are somehow less-than... I'll answer your question: On October 19th 2018, I inquired with Mr Kenji about his return policy. My exact words: Is there a return policy in case I’m not pleased with the product? His reply: Our return policy applies only when the function of the product is insufficient. This is because we sell products with standards conforming to national standards. Our clock is not specialized in audio. It is sold in a standard calibrated by international standards. Please note this phrase: Our clock is not specialized in audio. So those are his own words. Further, Cybershaft deploys reclaimed and curated chips. In my book that by itself puts them in unequal footing compared to other vendors. The 50/75 ohm switch is a questionable practice, or least as I encountered in other threads. I have no vested interest in bashing Cybershaft, but, likewise, there's no reason for me not to divulge facts I'm familiar with. Stereo [Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10 SE120] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 3] Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350] Surround [Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] Link to comment
LowMidHigh Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 11 hours ago, zephyr24069 said: "there's no reason for me not to divulge facts I'm familiar with...." Agreed and definitely not suggesting otherwise. Putting aside the opinions on the 50/75 ohm switch (personally I don't have one myself and my clock is soon to be upgraded to include 3 outputs with 3 switches 'just in case' I need 75-ohm output ever in the future. I'm not planning on ever moving from 50-ohm 10 Mhz but you never know. Reclaimed and curated chips as a questionable practice: I respect your opinion and that of others on the forum. I don't agree with it however for my own setup and listening and backed by multiple years of experience at this point with these clocks. Note I've owned Esoteric G-0s and G-03x and spent a sizable amount of time with the G-0Rb, G-01x and G-1. Have also trial'ed other word and master clocks. If using 'reclaimed and curated chips is questionable' as you have put it I cannot hear any advantage to not using them in competing products or any disadvantage of using them in Cybershaft products. If you and others are right, there may be reasons downstream but I'm not likely to live long enough to ever run into it. "Our return policy applies only when the function of the product is insufficient. This is because we sell products with standards conforming to national standards. Our clock is not specialized in audio. It is sold in a standard calibrated by international standards." I think I see the potential issue here; I've worked with and for Japanese companies many times over the past 30+ years. Please remember that 2+ years ago the designer of Cybershaft had almost non-existent English skills (limited to translate utilities I believe) and he has taken time and put effort into trying to learn the language. I work in the high-tech software field for over 3 decades. At the points I've worked for a Japanese software firm (part of huge Japanese conglomerate) or with Japanese firms as well as Japanese customers, technical manuals, papers, etc...have had to be translated from one language to another. Syntactic translation is important of course but semantics and subtleties of the language and meaning are IMHO of huge importance moving between Japanese and English. In the case of the paragraph above, I believe the actual meaning is as follows; - the return policy is limited to units that are not functioning properly according to standard testing methods - all units correct functioning is tested and verified to conform to national (purely technical) standards and test methods - the testing is not particular to audio usage - if a clock is to be returned, it must be proven as non-conformant to objective testing according to national testing standards, not subjective audio standards. If it is failing to conform to these testing standards it will be proven to be functioning incorrectly and the return will be honored... Cybershaft has pictures on their website of both their own test gear as well as the national standards labs that they rent or lease time in to test correct functioning of their clocks. I've also seen a couple of photos from Kenji of his music listening setup at Cybershaft where he does 'listen' to effects his designs have on audio playback. I could be off base with my read of the passage you have highlighted, but in view of the wording used and other facts I am more very confident that the meaning is something other than what is being ascribed to it. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience. I'll be brief--this digression is too long in the runing. Here's an explanation from the engineer behind Uptone as why 50/75 selector is a bad idea: You may want put those changes to your clock off. In that regard, I've always found kenjii approach to impedence mismatch far too cavalier. Stereo [Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10 SE120] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 3] Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350] Surround [Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] Link to comment
LowMidHigh Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 15 hours ago, zephyr24069 said: "there's no reason for me not to divulge facts I'm familiar with...." Agreed and definitely not suggesting otherwise. Putting aside the opinions on the 50/75 ohm switch (personally I don't have one myself and my clock is soon to be upgraded to include 3 outputs with 3 switches 'just in case' I need 75-ohm output ever in the future. I'm not planning on ever moving from 50-ohm 10 Mhz but you never know. Reclaimed and curated chips as a questionable practice: I respect your opinion and that of others on the forum. I don't agree with it however for my own setup and listening and backed by multiple years of experience at this point with these clocks. Note I've owned Esoteric G-0s and G-03x and spent a sizable amount of time with the G-0Rb, G-01x and G-1. Have also trial'ed other word and master clocks. If using 'reclaimed and curated chips is questionable' as you have put it I cannot hear any advantage to not using them in competing products or any disadvantage of using them in Cybershaft products. If you and others are right, there may be reasons downstream but I'm not likely to live long enough to ever run into it. "Our return policy applies only when the function of the product is insufficient. This is because we sell products with standards conforming to national standards. Our clock is not specialized in audio. It is sold in a standard calibrated by international standards." I think I see the potential issue here; I've worked with and for Japanese companies many times over the past 30+ years. Please remember that 2+ years ago the designer of Cybershaft had almost non-existent English skills (limited to translate utilities I believe) and he has taken time and put effort into trying to learn the language. I work in the high-tech software field for over 3 decades. At the points I've worked for a Japanese software firm (part of huge Japanese conglomerate) or with Japanese firms as well as Japanese customers, technical manuals, papers, etc...have had to be translated from one language to another. Syntactic translation is important of course but semantics and subtleties of the language and meaning are IMHO of huge importance moving between Japanese and English. In the case of the paragraph above, I believe the actual meaning is as follows; - the return policy is limited to units that are not functioning properly according to standard testing methods - all units correct functioning is tested and verified to conform to national (purely technical) standards and test methods - the testing is not particular to audio usage - if a clock is to be returned, it must be proven as non-conformant to objective testing according to national testing standards, not subjective audio standards. If it is failing to conform to these testing standards it will be proven to be functioning incorrectly and the return will be honored... Cybershaft has pictures on their website of both their own test gear as well as the national standards labs that they rent or lease time in to test correct functioning of their clocks. I've also seen a couple of photos from Kenji of his music listening setup at Cybershaft where he does 'listen' to effects his designs have on audio playback. I could be off base with my read of the passage you have highlighted, but in view of the wording used and other facts I am more very confident that the meaning is something other than what is being ascribed to it. The link doesn't do that job, and I don't want to take you on a wild goose chase. Here's what John Swenson writes: "The problem is that in order to have both a 50 and 75 external input you need both a 50 and 75 BNC jack. There is no way to properly electrically implement both with one jack. Any such approach will degrade the signal, I have a feeling those that want to use multi thousand dollar external clocks will NOT want to have the circuit deliberately degrade the signal! " Stereo [Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10 SE120] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 3] Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350] Surround [Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] Link to comment
LowMidHigh Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 46 minutes ago, smodtactical said: I'm kinda getting tired of dealing with issues with my SOTM 200 ultra. The microSD keeps corrupting leading me to have to re-burn it and now its not even turning on. Fiddling with the annoying power switch on the SPS 500.. its just a big hassle. Can anyone recommend a network streamer that performs as well if not better than this combo but that is more stable and reliable? Also something with a normal proper power switch? Ideally I would like a network streamer only as I want to use my own dac and want to put all the money into the streaming component. A far superior stand-alone streamer would be the Aries G1. It cost twice though...Personally, I opted for an Auralic product, and after the initial jolt of financial pain have been nothing but happy. Another approach is a computer based server. That is, If you can find a good software to remotely to operate the computer over your phone or tablet. If you want to covert the USB signal to either AES or SPDIF, I have a fantastic solution, although not conventional: mindDPS U-DIO8. The sound quality is very high, and it costs only $400, which is far below most converters. The DB25 cable is cumbersome, but for $40 you can order a custom cable with only one node. If that' something of interest to you, PM me and I'll explain farther. Stereo [Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10 SE120] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 3] Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350] Surround [Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] Link to comment
LowMidHigh Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 8 hours ago, DrPo said: Regarding issues: I have the "basic" SMS200 and so far I had issues with Qobuz in DLNA mode (which have disappeared after a change of my home network setup from Airport Express to UniFi AMPLIFI instant). I have now switched to Roon as player and my only qualm is that after prolonged non-usage (e.g 4-5 days) I need to reboot the SMS200. Regarding alternatives: this is too broad a question so I guess a avalanche of suggestions are to be expected :-). From personal experience I have used integrated streamers (NAIM NDX) which I was by very happy with. Currently I have moved to Antipodes EX running Roon into a USB DAC. The software that Rendu and Antipodes use are basically the same so I could easily think of Rendu products as a good alternative. What I have heard that SoTM has been "influenced" by Rendu in designing their products. I would be inclined to believe that the Rendu software will be more reliable. A last word of advice, I'd stay clear of any product with DAC functionality (Matrix Element-X mentioned above is one example; Naim NDX is another). Not that those are bad products--far from it--but you pay for unneeded functionality. You'd probably get a better bang for the buck with a dedicated streamer. Stereo [Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10 SE120] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 3] Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350] Surround [Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now