Let's talk about SOTM SMS-200 ULTRA

[mfin]

Dlan are Powerline Adapters right? I'd drop them like a stone, they may work fine, but they introduce all sorts of noise to the mains.

 

So, if you do mean powerline adapters, I wouldn't use them... If you need to get the lan to your listening room and you can't physically cable it then go for a Wireless Network Bridge which will connect wirelessly to your router, then have a lan cable out of the Wireless Network Bridge to a switch and then connect the SMS-200ultra to that switch.

 

Get a good Wireless Bridge, something like the Asus EA-AC87 is good if you have a router with 5Ghz Wireless AC, you could do a John Swenson ground shunt on it and on the switch if you like too.

 

(Oh, and moving the mac and nas away from the listening room is good, I would).

[mfin]

Ok, there are 3 ways...

 

ONE

LAN, straightforward, router, possibly switches (you might think of as hubs) all connected with LAN Cables.

- condition is that you can get a physical cable to everything

- there are tweaks people do to try improve things, as the cable you'd plug into your SMS-200 is electrically connecting it to all the network's cabling and switches and router (just a very simplified way of looking at it)

 

TWO

LAN, with Powerline

- same as ONE, but when you can't physically get a cable to one room, you might put a Powerline adapter in another room, the Lan cable of which plugs into your router or one of your switches, and a second Powerline adapter in your room where your hifi is has a Lan cable coming out of it into your SMS-200

- Powerline adapters can work great, no real setup needed

- Powerline adapters are noisy things, with some power amps you can feed nothing to them, just have them on, and put your ear to the speaker and you can actually hear all sorts of low level noise coming out (just an indicator of the fact that they are noisy, and in this example, if you put the powerline adapters out, hey presto, the noise is gone)

- this noise can potentially have effect on all your other equipment

 

THREE

Lan, with Wireless Network Bridge

- same as ONE, and achieves what TWO does, this time by having a lan cable plugged into your SMS-200 the other end of which is plugged into a Wireless Network Bridge (of course, preferably a good one) which connects wirelessly to your wireless router.

- advantage here is that even though you can't physically get a cable to your SMS-200 as in example ONE, you have now effectively done it via a Wireless Network Bridge instead of noisy Powerline Adapters

- some people, even though the COULD do example ONE, choose to do this very thing for their streamer, because the physical Lan cable going into the SMS-200 is no longer a physical electrical connection to all the lan cabling, switches, router and devices in the house

- you can John Swenson shunt quite a few Wireless Network Bridges such as the ASUS one I mentioned.

- also, some people will instead of running a lan cable from Wireless Network Bridge straight to the SMS-200, will put a switch such as a Netgear GS105 in the middle (John Swenson shunt can be done too), so that would look like Wireless Network Bridge with Lan Cable into Switch (*port 1), with another Lan Cable out of the switch (*port 5) and into the SMS-200.

- I've starred the port numbers there are arguments for using

- the other ports you would leave empty, so that switch is only used for the SMS-200

 

 

...I would rather do ONE or THREE, anything but Powerline Adapters for hifi really! Even someone who has a non-streaming setup with no network requirements, if they have Powerline Adapters (maybe to connect their Sky box or something) in the vicinity it is not good for the hifi. Way worse than the presence of a bunch of switch mode power supplies in my experience

 

I don't know if any of that helps?

It depends on system to system, network to network, ears to ears, etc, so, some people will really be hearing the benefits of better approaches, some might not.

 

Also, there are more and more approaches which can be done, Lan isolators based on transformers are interesting, they are effectively something that sits inline with a lan cable effectively letting it work, but electrically the wires are not directly connected anymore. Also, you get people who use FMCs, a couple of boxes which let you replace a lan cable with a lan cable which has a stretch of fibre optic in the middle of it (layman's terms example), because that stops the direct electrical connection too (light instead), but of course the electrical supply to the FMCs is then an issue.

 

There is so so much of this stuff to get your head around!! Personally, I'd avoid Powerline adapters if you can.

[mfin]

Ah, ok, I know what I'd do if the wifi between floors is a no go.

 

Get a lan cable run between the floors, it can be done either within the wall or if not out and down the side of the house. If you do it you can maybe do two, so they can be used for different things. You can do it between sockets on the wall if you have to.

 

Then you can do the wired approach to a switch (or same thing twice)

 

It also brings in possibilities of all sorts, like putting a Wireless Access Point downstairs for wifi access if you want wifi downstairs for other things.

 

(Or... stick with what you have, just use Powerline and forget it all, but if your hifi is a good one, do the wiring, it is cheap stuff really, maybe you can do it yourself?).

 

[mfin]

7 hours ago, HardrockInMiniMac said:

 

So the PowerLan adapter in my living can offer 5Ghz WIFI and does. What about buying this Asus Bridge, connecting it through WIFI with the PowerLAN adapter and then run a CAT to SOTM SMS200?

 

My only concern would be the Asus PSU in this case. Any chance to run these bridges on battery for a decent time? Just because I am flattened right now by my iPhone 8 running as a roon endpoint and outperforming my standard setup by arms length. 

 

As I said earlier just the presence of Powerline adapters (even if not being used to connect the hifi) is bad.

 

Why would you want to run the Asus on a battery? If you mean because you don't like it's switch mode psu then you can always do a Jon Swenson shunt.

 

Going from wireless to wireless bridge is one thing, but going from wired to powerline to wireless to wireless bridge is not something I'd want to do.

 

Why not cable it from one floor to another as suggested, OR, just try it with a cable going between windows just to see. You might try it and hear no difference. It depends on your ears, the system, all sorts really. In a high end system with good ears you would hear the differences I think. Trying a cable is what I'd do, it's cheap, and you can prove if there's a difference you can hear before installing the cable for real. (Then if you want to go further you can try things like I mentioned in example THREE)

[mfin]

It sounds like you are truly limited then and I can see why you run powerline, I can also see why you said about a possibility of letting the powerline broadcast a wifi signal which you then use a Wireless Bridge to pick up from, in that I can tell why you dreamt it up (and it might be better I don't know, BUT, the powerline will still be present by the sounds of it, polluting the mains.

 

If you can get hold of some cable, I would certainly try a direct cable which can be passed from window to window. Why you might ask. Well, it would establish for you straight away whether you can hear the difference, having all the powerlines unplugged. So, it would establish that if you can hear a difference with that method, you could possibly try another method like you mentioned above (in which you'd try to have that powerline adapter which is downstairs in a room or two away if possible).

 

Try the cable method, you can even just make one just to try with some half decent Cat 5 and plus some RJ45 ends on it, running in order:

orange and white / orange / green and white / blue / blue and white / green / brown and white / brown

You'd need a cheap rj45 crimp tool off ebay and can practice on some little bits of cable.

 

I really think you should try something else just to establish if you can hear it, some people in some systems can't, and in other systems it can be quite obvious and most people will hear it. Don't go on the fact you've read there are better ways that sound better, at least go experience something to find out.

[mfin]

I am running an Asus EA-AC87 into a switch then into sMS200ultra (then into tX-USBultra).

 

The switch I have gone through testing 9 different ones now, and am running battery power on the favourite (some sound pretty much the same, some don't). I will be comparing this solution (total spend £35) with an AQVox Switch very soon. Once I've done that I will pop back and list all the details.

 

(Note that some of the 9 were Netgear FS105, GS105, GS108, GS308, all tried with and without Swenson shunt, and none of those combinations have been winners so far for me).

 

I also have a battery pack arriving for the Asus EA-AC87 to try on that, which will be arriving some time this week (at the moment running a Swenson mains shunt).

 

Network cables at the moment are a 7.5 meter Meicord Opal from the EA-AC87 into the switch and a Supra Cat-8 1 meter into the sMS200-ultra (that final cable I have a Ghent ET-02 on the way to compare, but also might try an AQVox cable and others).

 

I doubt it if I will try a Lan Isolator, the Pink Faun was on the radar, but with the network all being driven by batteries it doesn't make so much sense to me, maybe I might. I will certainly be trying this if I find the AQVox Switch (£400 version) beats my current battery driven favourite switch.

 

(Luckily I already owned half a dozen of these switches already)

 

 

 

 

 

[mfin]

6 minutes ago, PeteGardner said:

I have had my ultra for 6 weeks and want to know if the network activity led should 'flicker'???

 

My wifi is not the best and I am hoping this is not affecting SQ.

 

Setup is Mac mini 2012 quad core with roon/tidal > cat 6 > netgear switch > cat 6 > ultra with sps500 > curious > iso regen > chord tt > lcd xc

 

Yes it should flicker. I sent an email to May asking if they could put an option in a future Eunhasu release to disable the network activity led as it's way more of a distraction that it is useful.

 

You are better off doing a wired connection if you can by the way, and via a switch that you only use to feed the sMS-200ultra. A popular switch would be a Netgear GS108 and do a Swenson shunt, wiring the negative (outside barrel) of the switch's DC connector to the earth pin of a mains plug plugged in next to the switch's SMPS.

 

(I compared about 10 reasonably priced switches and the above one was not my favourite though ...I'll post about this at some point)

[mfin]

48 minutes ago, PeteGardner said:

Thanks mfin for the clarification. Yes, distracting!

 

I am actually hard wired thru a gs105 and also have the shunt in play so apologies for the misleading info. 

 

The only thing for me now is to upgrade to the sps500 silver Y cable. I'm finding the copper cable veils somewhat. I currently find my AK Kann as a transport thru the tt is more revealing. Perhaps more burn in will help but one reviewer has mentioned the same veiling.

 

How much is the silver one and where do you plan on getting it from?

 

I'm using one of these as my Y-cable at the moment https://www.ghentaudio.com/part/dc15.html ...a note to anyone considering that, go for the 50cm one if your 3 boxes sit side by side, it's possible to use when 30cm but only just and the sMS500 has to sit on the right hand side to do it (because of the side of the unit which the power socket is on).

 

[mfin]

SWITCH RECOMMENDATIONS and COMPARISONS

 

There's a couple of 10/100 hubs that sounded better than the GS108 with the ground shunt to my ears... it's a little bit difficult to ascertain what is what though.

 

So, the short version of the conclusion was that the Zyxel es105a V1 was the best.

 

It is a 10/100 switch as against a gigabit one, and other people have previously mentioned these can sound better.

 

Let's go a little bit longer on the description here now... I believe that both of the following internal photographs are of V1's, but they have different internals. I'll talk about them as blue board vs green board. (There's a very slim chance the Blue could be a V3, but I don't believe it is, we're talking a very slim chance indeed).

 

I have two sat here with the green board, identical inside, but have not seen another blue one.

 

The blue vs green sound slightly different but both were front runners to my ears, and both sounded more natural than a shunted GS108 which sounded sort of airy but slightly fizzy in comparison. I found both of these to be better. The blue boarded one was my favourite of the two, it gave me a slightly more analogue sound than other switches, but the green one did most of that and gave a touch more air.

 

Best of all this is these things sell on eBay used for about £5 so there's nothing really to lose in trying one.

 

 

 

They both take 5V by the way, so you can try powering them from a USB powerbank if you have one, with a £2 USB to 5.5mm DC plug lead. (Of course, not the ultimate way of doing it, and there's more you can do with regulators and such, but that's another discussion).

 

In all cases of trying switches I fed in on port 1 from an Asus 5Ghz network bridge and out from the last port into the sMS-500ultra. The speed being 10/100 makes no practical bottleneck and my dac happily and glitch free played 32-bit/384 PCM for example.

 

I tried other switches including:

 

Netgear FS105 (10/100)

Netgear GS105

Netgear GS108 

Netgear GS308

Cisco SG100D-08

TP-Link TL-SF1008D (10/100)

TP-Link TL-SF1005D  (10/100)

Zyxel ES-108a (10/100)

Zyxel ES-105a V1 (10/100) green board

Zyxel ES-105a V1 (10/100) blue board

Zyxel ES-105a V2 (10/100) 

Linksys LGS105

 

...all were tried shunted and not, and all 5v ones were tried powerbanked vs not.

 

Some were dismissed really quickly as they'd simply not topple the current front runner at the time and many simply did not stand out. I wasn't impressed myself by any of the Netgear ones. I occasionally tried putting the shunted GS108 back in in place of the blue board ES105a V1 but every time I did so it confirmed to me that I did not prefer it.

 

If anyone is wondering over the ES-105a V1 vs the ES-108a V1, the 108 had a green board and sounded similar to the green boarded 105. Here's a photo of that inside too:

 

 

I expect all this comparing sounds ridiculous to some people, but seeing as I had a load of these in my loft in amongst stacks of old computer gear I had already, I thought why not.

 

*At this point I will just restate that I am not 100% sure that blue board one is a V1, there's a slim chance it could have been a V3 but I never saw inside a V3 that I knew was a V3. I don't think it will be a V3 though as a V2 for example has V2 written on the bottom of it, so I'd assume that would be the same for a V3. PLUS, the graphics on the front of the V3 are different in the packaging shots I have seen. So, that's my logic in thinking the blue board is a V1 variant.

 

Finally, I should say that I have also compared the favourite there to an AQVox (the standard one, not the new double the price one) and the AQVox did top it, but it should, it is £400.

 

So, I'm not saying for sure everyone would find the same as me, but there's no doubt that I personally preferred an ES-105 V1 Blue board (and green board) over a shunted Netgear GS105. Powerbanking is worth trying too seeing as it is 5v and they are cheap, but that's another topic.

[mfin]

13 minutes ago, PeteGardner said:

Thanks for the cable recommendation mfin. I was going to go thru SOtM for their cable but it will be $400-500, so I will give the Ghent cable a go.

I'll also look into the Zyxel.

 

No problem, I suggest going for 0.5m and you'll want the 5.5 x 2.1mm option for the sMS-200ultra and tX-USBultra.

 

I have placed a good few orders for various things and all have arrived in the sort of timeframe that they state.

[mfin]

You can grab one of these for £2 off ebay if you have a powerbank lying around that you'd like to try powering the Zyxel from (again, 5.5mm x 2.1mm I think for the Zyxel)

 

[mfin]

2 minutes ago, HardrockInMiniMac said:

mfin,

 

great write up, thanks

 

2 questions here:

 

Would you cable connect the music server to the Asus bridge if it is possible or do you believe the trick is to receive audio files wireless?

Would you also consider to battery power the Asus or at least change out the PSU for sound improvement?

 

Chris

 

I'll come back to you on this as I am just establishing the preferable way for everything to be positioned. Remember I will be comparing Tidal and local files, all from a Roon Rock NUC.

 

So, at the moment I have the Router in another room with a Roon Rock NUC attached. In the listening room, the Asus wireless bridge connected to the switch, and the sMS500ultra connected to the switch.

 

I am going to compare this to only having the Router in another room. So, in the listening room, the Asus wireless bridge connected to the switch, the sMS500ultra connected to the switch, and the Roon Rock NUC connected to the switch.

 

...the reason I said I'll come back to you is this, I have a LPSU arriving that will power the Roon Rock NUC and the Router. At the moment if I relocate the Roon Rock NUC next to the hifi then it will be on it's cheap SMPS, so it would be something noisy plugged into the switch. That would be an unfair comparison as at the moment even though the Roon Rock NUC is powered by it's cheap SMPS, it is not directly connected as it is the other side of the wireless connection. ...so, we shall see when the LPSU arrives (at any moment) what seems to win.

 

As far as LPSU on the Asus wireless bridge goes, any moment I will be able to relocate an SBooster I have in order to try exactly that. When that is done, in my listening room the Asus will be on LPSU and so is the AQVox switch (5v Kingrex).

 

So, watch this space a little. Remember I am not claiming anything here, I am just stating what my ears tell me. My comments about switches I should stress include me finding many switches just sound so alike it would be difficult to pick from, it was easy for me to pick out those that stood out and completely repeatable.

[mfin]

8 minutes ago, HardrockInMiniMac said:

mfin,

 

I do also battery power the Netgear GS105 at this point but have not applied a ground shunt.

 

Did you try yourself?

 

 

 

I didn't have a 12v battery source to try on any of the Netgears. I did have a sneaky feeling their sound might be defined by their SMPS more than some of the others though, and the ones listed all had similar qualities. All had the same SMPS on inspection. If I'd had a battery or alternative like a LPSU I certainly would have tried it all.

 

The FS105 was also the worst sounding of the 10/100 ones for me (again, maybe same SMPS defining things, I don't know). 

 

[mfin]

40 minutes ago, HardrockInMiniMac said:

Mfin, thanks for the background on this.

 

It seems I am doing pretty much the same in parallel. The MacMini is now back in the HIFI room and builds a Thunderbolt to Ethernet bridge with the Ultra with the Thunderbolt/Gigabit adapter going into the Asus or into PowerLAN for testing (will be totally gone in a few weeks). I am testing with an without batteries (12V, 9V output) and with low noise SMPS. 

 

I have had both the Asus and the switch running on battery on parallel. I have taken out the ifi micro iUSB3.0 because I agree with Hans B. that it makes no sense to reclock the signal between the Ultra and the DAC. That takes be back to the USB cable questions and I hate it. Too many variables. 

 

How do connect the Ultra with the DAC?

 

Overall, I still get distortion sometimes and have not figured out what and when is driving this. Sure thing is to rule out PowerLAN asap but for that my electrician will need to drill a few holes and run some cables.

 

Chris

 

sMS-200ultra --> Curious USB 200mm --> tXUSBultra --> Phasure Lush USB 0.7m --> Dac

 

Yes, get rid of powerline stuff. I have plugged one in before in the same room but nowhere near the hifi and could actually hear the interference through the speaker when not playing music. So god knows what else it messes with.

 

The last cable is the one that has the effect. I have a Curious USB 0.8m here too, which I have tried a lot of swapping back and forth with the Lush, both have pros and cons. Curious is airy but a touch thin, very open sounding. Lush is more natural, not thin, more weighted but not as open sounding (curious is right out there on a limb though to my ears, could be fantastic in a warm system that someone wants to be less warm and more sharp).

 

I will probably sell both at some point and commit to something more expensive than either. Probably Sablon Reserva Elite USB as I have heard that in someone else's high end system comparing to the Curious and the Lush. It seemed to have best qualities of both and more, but it is expensive.

 

EDIT: Note that I am probably thinking it is best to keep my Roon Rock NUC away from the hifi, not connected to the switch, it's hardly been designed as a quiet device for audio purposes so could be noisy (even when LPSU-ed). So I am expecting it to live where it does now, in the other room and plugged into the router. ....that said, I am going to try relocating it and will listen, it's the only way really. I am guessing it will sound a touch different but be a matter of preference. We shall see.

[mfin]

32 minutes ago, PeteGardner said:

Hi mfin.Would you kindly recommend my best options to improve my system. I’m quite new to the computer based audio world, being an old school (54 yrs old) 2 channel analog stalwart. I have approx $2000aus available to add to/change my system

system is 2012 Mac mini quad core with flac files on HDD with Roon core via Ethernet / tidal and jitterbug > 1m blue jeans ethernet cable  > net gear 105 > 1m blue jeans cable > SOtM sms200 ultra powered by SOtM sps500 > curious > iso REGEN powered by SOtM sps500 > uspcb > chord tt soon to become a Mytek Brooklyn DAC/amp > audeze lcd-xc with after market C3 upocc cable.

 

the Sablon USB cable certainly sounds like it should be on the list

 

 

 

I'm afraid I am so unfamiliar with your system it's difficult to suggest stuff. I'm no authority on these topics, I just know what's worked well in my own system and what hasn't but your system and mine have very little in common...

 

A few thoughts and guesses (but skip past because I think you might be best not tinkering for now)...

 

You could play with the Uspcb and Curious either side of the regen. You might want to experiment there. Can you swap their positions over for example? See what effects it has. It's the cable after the regen that will make the most difference. I'm not sure I'd spend too much before establishing what differences you might get. (that Sablon costs loads!)

Have you tried a LPSU on the Mac mini?

 

I'd try a swenson shunt on that Netgear 105 for next to no cost, but even better chase down a Zyxel es105a V1 for next to nothing again.

 

The blue jeans cables ...you could try something else? Supra Cat 8 (smooth sounding) or Meicord Opal which are better and don't cost too much (until you look and might be shocked).

 

...but, all those thoughts aside, because you said your Mytek Dac and Amp will arrive soon, I 100% would wait, let that lot arrive and let it all settle for a good while, get used to it and THEN start to address what you want to improve when you can put your finger on what it is you want to hear improved and in what way.

 

Oh, get a LPSU on that Mytek Brooklyn Dac+ as it makes a big difference. Sbooster works well. (I know, I've got this combination, in a week or so I will have a more expensive Fidelizer Nikola LPSU to compare, and I know my system inside out so that will be interesting. It is double the cost of the Sbooster though ...send me a message in a couple of weeks and I'll let you know initial thoughts on this ....our systems will have a bit more in common then).

 

Remember, I can only say what I've experienced, but I do like to compare a lot of stuff when I can as you can probably tell. Sometimes I will also go overkill on some items, to try future proof myself as I know other items will be changed to better ones over time. Equally though, I will stick with cheap stuff when it makes no difference, or go for used bargains too. Price is not a factor for me, if I need to spend, I will, if something makes no difference or is bettered by something cheap I will stick with that.

[mfin]

13 minutes ago, jjh1585 said:

Hi @mfin

 

Thanks for the write up.

 

I just opened my V3. It is a blue board but quite different than yours. Here are some photos.

 

 

Ah, that's confirmed it for me then, the V1 came with a blue board and green board. The chip on each of of the V1s is the same supplier, an RTL8305SC on the blue and an RTL8306G on the green (obviously that's only one component change but they are from the same series so I always thought they were two switches of similar age).

 

The blue V1 by the way vs the green V1 is a matter of taste as mentioned before. Blue I found slightly more musical, green had a touch more air. I am NOT saying people are going to find what I found, with these being preferable to the common choice of a shunted GS108 but it is certainly what I decided. I thought I'd contribute this though because it is such a cheap thing to try. You can buy 3 or 4 of them for the price of a GS108, so it's worth trying if you don't want to fork out on an AQVox, which is better but it should be!

 

By the way, does your V3 have "es105a V3" written on it on the underside? The V2 definitely has V2 written there, and the V1 has just "es105a" as you'd expect as nobody needs to call a version 1 a version 1.

 

For notes, here is an es105a V2 opened up:

 

[mfin]

9 minutes ago, jjh1585 said:

I had my unit mounted with Velcro. I am not able to see the sticker on the bottom.

 

 

 

Ah right, I didn't try the V3 by the way. I had read of someone liking the V1 and V2 but not the V3 so I didn't bother.

[mfin]

3 minutes ago, jjh1585 said:

 

 

I would like to get a V1 modified by Sotm if I can locate one. Google doesn't show any.

 

I took a chance on the one I have. I bought it off Amazon. It came form France.

 

All sorts of leaps of faith getting a V1 modified. Are you just going by some kind of logic that I have said it was good and hence it would be worth modifying? It sounds like that to me.

[mfin]

22 minutes ago, HardrockInMiniMac said:

Mfin, if the Asus goes into Port 1 on the switch and the SOtM out of Port 5 would you then add the music server to Port 3 rather than any of the others or have it plugged into the Asus (on which port?)? 

 

Chris

 

My Roon Rock NUC is in another room, plugged into the router, so neither of the ways you have described.

 

I think I might have mentioned that I am going to be trying it relocated so it is next to the hifi and then of course it will be connected to the switch (no point in plugging it into the ASUS as far as I can think).

 

I haven't done this so far as my Roon Rock NUC doesn't have a LPSU. I've got one arriving though, so first I will try it leaving it where it is, in the other room, this LPSU will power both the NUC and the router. Then after that I will try the NUC next to the hifi with that LPSU as described above (note this way, the router in the other room will have to stay on its SMPS).

 

...as for your question on what port, I'd be experimenting and listening for the answer or listening for if things don't matter. I listen for what's best rather than taking what I am told for granted, and in this particular case I haven't had the chance to listen.

[mfin]

21 minutes ago, HardrockInMiniMac said:

Great, that's going to be interesting to see your results.

 

In the meanwhile, I will then go testing Port 1, 3 and 5 with a Netgear switch and power everything either battery or Hirose-Y-cable from SOtM sPS-500. 

 

Chris

 

Ok. That won't relate to my setup or findings really. You're running a switch I didn't like and I think you've said you're running some powerline stuff somewhere which I find messes with things.

 

The port findings might vary switch to switch too, or on some be relevant and on others not. So there's not really much common thread with the things I've been looking at.

 

Enjoy your findings though.

[mfin]

47 minutes ago, PeteGardner said:

mfin, thanks for your ongoing advice.

I have ordered the Ghent cable as recommended - stage 1 complete!

 

Stage 2 - can't seem to find a Zyxel V1 online, do I assume the V3 is next best (in your opinion) given that there doesn't appear to be any V2s either? Would go for the AQVox but budget won't allow.

 

Stage 3 - Undecided at this point with Supra or Meicord. Either way, is it recommended that I have 3 of the same? That is one from modem to switch, one from Mac Mini to switch, one from switch to SOtM ultra.

Stage 3 - 2x SBoosters - 1 for Mytek Brooklyn once purchased and 1 for Mac Mini (I will order an Uptone MM conversion kit)

 

Stage 4 - Add SSD to MM

 

Another question - Am I right in saying the MM should be as far away from my audio gear as possible? This will determine cable length when I order but will be no more than 2m from my system.

 

I would love to say that would be end game for me but we all know that just isn't the truth!!!

 

Stage 1 - The Ghent cable I bought as I knew of it, knew it cost little, that's all. I am not claiming it will be better than any other Y-leads, it's just what I bought. It will be interesting to hear how you think it compares, I have not yet considered upgrading from this as I am concentrating on other things for now.

 

Stage 2- You won't find a V1 in a store, it was stopped being sold a long time back. eBay has some used ones, you can usually identify by looking at the graphics on the front, the little port symbols, as a V2 had different ones (I don't know if the graphics overlapped at all from V1 to V2 or whether they changed them exactly when the V2 came out). The V3 is normally spottable because of packaging and being the latest one.

 

When you say "do I assume the V3 is next best (in your opinion)", NO, please don't assume that at all, as far as I can see it has nothing in common with the others that I can tell (just look at the inside shots) AND I have not tried it at all either. It is a complete unknown.

 

Stage 3 - I don't know about having the same cable throughout, you will have to experiment. Why not try one cable first, see what differences you here. Try putting it last in the chain by the way, so into the SOTM. Supra CAT 8 has good comments about it. Meicord costs more but it's more reviewed with more accolades if that attracts you. Both are not very physically flexible for lan cables, the Meicord especially.

 

Stage 3 continued - If you are doing this Brooklyn change and sBooster thing then get this done. Tweaking the rest when you are setting about major component changes seems odd to me. I'd get the major component changes done first and then do the rest.

 

Stage 4 - sounds good

 

As for location of MacMini, you have to decide for yourself. I don't think fussing over 2m will be that relevant though. I am going to be doing some experiments myself with positioning.

 

Please please don't take my comments above as qualified advice, I am only someone who listens to their own system and changes I make, nothing more. I do not claim to understand all these aspects being discussed, only my own listening findings. There are so many people offering advice on forums like this and I am constantly absorbing what they are finding as well!

 

I really don't want people following my advice, it would be stupid, I am just a random bloke who is trying and finding out things for myself. Of course it will be interesting to hear if others like the switch choice I did, but I would not bet for one second on how many people will agree or disagree, I'm only offering up what I concluded and preferred.

[mfin]

9 minutes ago, Confused said:

The above was in response to a question about the 'network activity LED' flickering.  By network activity LED are you referring to what I would call the green power LED on the front panel?  If so, I agree it is very annoying, if not, I have a serious problem with my sMS-200Ultra!

 

Yep, Network Activity Led, or some kind of Activity Led. Within the little inch tall button there's its power led at the bottom and a separate activity one at the top, both showing through the same bit of plastic.

 

It is pointless apart from troubleshooting, so 99.999% of the time it is nothing but annoying.

 

Maybe more people should drop an email to May.

 

The led also pisses about if you have it configured for "Roon Ready" and your Dac is turned off or in standby, it's constantly pissing about as it looks for the dac. Annoying when you want to leave the SOtM on 24/7 but standby your dac when not listening to anything.

[mfin]

32 minutes ago, doraymon said:

Checking in as a happy owner of an sMS-200ultra.

Still testing a lot my configuration to see how I can streamline it to avoid the billion boxes I have before my DAC.

So far the sMS-200ultra and the AQVOX AQ-SWITCH-SE are staying no matter what.

In every test I did when I removed them from the chain the sound closed down and got more veiled and less engaging.

 

i am using a Mac Mini running Roon Server, what better option I have?

 

First thought, have you got a good PSU on the sMS-200ultra? If not, get one, no brainer, something like sPS-500 will be good, then later you could add a tXUSBultra and power it off that as well using a Y-lead from Ghent Audio. EDIT, I see you have a tXUSBultra in your sig. If you don't have an sPS500 powering both of those via a Y-lead then do it.

 

Another thought is either LPSU the Mac Mini, or go the other route, fanless cased NUC running roon rock and linear psu. Selling the Mac Mini might likely fund the NUC, then add a LPSU. Of course, if your Mac Mini is running more than just Roon then you won't want to do this.
 

What about how it is all positioned? So, how many things are plugged into the AQVox? Is it 3 cables? Mac Mini, Internet from Router, and sMS-200ultra? Some idea of this might bring possibilities.

 

The AQVox, are you just running the SMPS that came with it?

 

What ethernet cables are you running?

 

What USB cable are you running out of the sMS-200ultra?

[mfin]

4 hours ago, doraymon said:

Got an sPS-500 powering both using a sotm Y cable.

 

It’s dedicated only to Roon and to hold my music library!

 

Precisely!

 

Yes. I had a chat with Norman of AQVOX and he strongly discourages trying different power supplies.

 

 

Standard cat7 Ethernet from power plug adapter (Ethernet over power line unfortunately) and from Mac mini to the AQVOX switch.

an AQVOX Excel cat7 Ethernet cable 50cm from switch to sMS-200ultra, it’s the best cable they have and they suggest to go with the SE switch.

 

QED Reference 30cm to the tX-USBultra and QED Reference 1m from tX-USBultra to DAC

 

thanks a lot for the many questions, I’m happy to get help to improve my system.

and I’m interested in the NUC solution...

 

Ok. First comment is on AQVox power supply, I know they say that (I have the non-SE), but using a LPSU improves things, I have a 5V Kingrex here that has run on it and at the moment I am feeding it from the 5V of an HDPlex because it is there and available.

 

So, let's get this right, one of the 3 cables plugged into the AQvox is connected to a Powerline adapter? If so, I say get rid of them, I've heard the negative effects and they are clear. If you can get wifi near your setup get something like an Asus EA-EC87 5Ghz Network Bridge. Even the presence of a powerline adapter nearby affects things, so if you have any other option, do this, even if you are not streaming music as such from things like Tidal. That's actually the first thing I'd address.

 

By the way, mine is fed like I describe, so same as you but ASUS Network Bridge (with LPSU) for the internet connection, and Roon Rock on NUC with LPSU instead of Mac Mini (if you want to know the parts list to buy then let me know and I'll send you all the links, it's ever so easy to spec up as there's no benefit in going mad on the Ram or system SSD, so you just need to know how big a hard disk you want for music storage (hopefully not so big that you can't have SSD).

 

What I've done is locate that Asus Network Bridge away from the hifi, so the Roon NUC and sMS200ultra are on 1m meicord cables into the AQVox, but a 10mtr meicord lets me locate the Asus Network Bridge and LPSU on the other side of the room. Now, this suited my setup, but I also could not see the point of having those aerials active right next to my hifi, so it sort of had some amateur logic to doing it.

 

That standard cable from Mac Mini to AQVox and the one with the internet connection via that powerline adapter you have to get rid of, these you can benefit from something better. Meicord Opal are good and not astronomical in cost.

 

If there's one thing you do, rid yourself of powerline adapters, they're a noisy way of connecting things and they pollute the mains. I can plug one in in my lounge and actually hear the interference it causes through the speakers when the power amp is on but I am not playing music. They're great things, ever so convenient, but in the end they have no place in a hifi room or house in my opinion.

[mfin]

1 hour ago, acaro said:

mfin,

Are you able to list out the NUC parts list and instructions on how to get roon rock going?  I think I'm going to give it a shot myself.  Thanks

 

Are you in the UK?

 

A good shout is to buy a NUC7i5BNH, this has an i5 which is the fastest processor approved for the Acasa Newton S7 fanless case if you want to move it into one of those. https://www.scan.co.uk/products/intel-7th-gen-barebone-nuc-kit-i5-7260u-ddr4-m2plus25-sata-gbe-wifi-bt-intel-iris-plus-graphics-640?v=c

 

So you basically need the Ram (no point in going beyond 2133 speed as anything faster won't give any benefit), two of these is what I have https://www.scan.co.uk/products/4gb-crucial-ddr4-so-dimm-pc4-17000-(2133)-non-ecc-unbuffered-cas-15-12v?v=c

 

Plus an M2 SSD (the stick type used for the OS) are way way way big enough nowadays, so no advantage getting a bigger capacity one, this is what I used https://www.scan.co.uk/products/120gb-wd-green-m2-2280-ssd-sata-iii-6gb-s-3d-nand-read-545mb-s-retail but that's out of stock there now, here it is at amazon https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01M2WYNP2/ref=pe_3187911_189395841_TE_dp_1

 

You can pick whatever 2.5 drive you want for storing the music, so pick your capacity, if your library is small or you mainly stream you'll be able to get SSD, they become very expensive if you need a LOT of space though. So, you need a 2.5" SATA3 SSD such as these https://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer-hardware/hard-drives-ssd/120gb-to-480gb-25-sata3-ssds

...or bigger https://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer-hardware/hard-drives-ssd/ssd-25-sata-iii ....or bigger again... https://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer-hardware/hard-drives-ssd/15tb-to-5tb-25-sata3-ssds.

 

If you need a lot of space and can't afford one you'll have to go for a regular non-ssd 2.5" SATA 3 drive which will be much cheaper, but noisy.

 

Here's the fanless case https://www.scan.co.uk/products/akasa-newton-s7-aluminum-fanless-case-for-nuc7i5-i3-supports-25-hdd-ssd-with-front-i-o-ports?v=c 

 

Personally I built it up and had it all working then set about moving it once I knew it was all working.

 

It's best to have an HDMI cable handy, and an old USB keyboard, so you can do the first steps of setup and all bios changes (inc. later bios changes to tell it that it has no fan if you go fanless but that doesn't really matter).

 

This video is good for the fanless case moving https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-dVdm3OjME but it does omit that on the bottom of the motherboard there is a bios battery stuck to the bottom which needs pulling off it's stubborn sticker, turning upside down and then sticking in a recess at the bottom of the case (basically the case was made before they relocated the battery and they made a recess for where it WAS but now intel moved it.

 

A pack of computer screws might be handy and an anti-static band. You'll most likely want a good little computer screwdriver that's magnetic too just to help a little with the tiny screws if you are a bit cack handed.

 

The software side of it was very easy. The most confusing thing for most people would be uncompressing the file that has the codec file you need to drag and drop onto the NUC. Winrar will do it if you have a PC though for example.

 

Building one up but not doing the fanless case anyone should be capable of really just by reading instructions. The migration into a fanless case I think is best done afterwards, and this seems a bit intimidating but take it slowly and it really isn't at all.