Optane SSD as Boot drive - SQ Nirvana?

[seeteeyou]

The latest (but not quite the greatest?) 800P Optane turned out to be not exactly the best choice, 58GB for $129 and 118GB for $199 respectively so that would cost even more per GB when compared to what we're paying for 900P

 

https://www.pcgamer.com/intel-optane-ssd-800p-review

https://www.techradar.com/reviews/intel-optane-800p-ssd

https://hothardware.com/reviews/intel-optane-ssd-800p-review

https://www.pcmag.com/review/359691/intel-optane-ssd-800p

http://www.storagereview.com/intel_optane_800p_nvme_ssd_review

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-optane-ssd-800p,5497.html

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12512/the-intel-optane-ssd-800p-review

http://www.thessdreview.com/our-reviews/nvme/intel-optane-800p-ssd-review-58-118gb

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3260211/storage/intel-800p-optane-ssd-bleeding-edge-pain-without-bleeding-edge-gain.html

 

Since we don't really need HD caching whatsoever, I assume that Intel C232 chipset should work fine with 280GB 900P Optane PCIe AIC as bootable drive.

 

Let's say we're going for Asus P10S-M with 3 PCIe CPU-direct slots, it seems to be an ideal way to completely eliminate everything that's connected to the chipset (i.e. PCH) itself

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/38753-a-crowd-funded-motherboards-for-audiophiles-part-2/?page=3&tab=comments#comment-793275

• 1 slot for USB AIC (e.g. SOtM tX-USBexp)
• 1 slot for LAN AIC (e.g. JCAT NET Card FEMTO)
• 1 slot for SSD AIC (e.g. Intel 900P Optane)

Display card could be part of the CPU so we should be good to go.

[jaynyc]

question for the Optane experts.... in the future when 4+TB PCIe Optane cards are available, would it be optimal to have music files and OS on the same drive, or is a partition still necessary for best performance, or are music files always best via external PCIe USB?

 

 

[lmitche]

17 hours ago, jaynyc said:

question for the Optane experts.... in the future when 4+TB PCIe Optane cards are available, would it be optimal to have music files and OS on the same drive, or is a partition still necessary for best performance, or are music files always best via external PCIe USB?

 

 

Jay,

 

Tough to say without trying. There are many variables here.

[Iving]

17 hours ago, jaynyc said:

question for the Optane experts.... in the future when 4+TB PCIe Optane cards are available, would it be optimal to have music files and OS on the same drive, or is a partition still necessary for best performance, or are music files always best via external PCIe USB?

 

 

 

I have my music on the same Optane (PCIe) drive as the o/s for pragmatic rather than strategic or even empirical reasons (that pragmatism having to do with CPU/PCIe vs. chipset, and having only a small number of CPU-direct slots with one already occupied by ethernet card). I dare say there are theoretical advantages to single vs. separate drives for os/ and music; however, I doubt that with Optane we should hear any difference. I can't comment on USB except to say that, on the one hand, I won't go near USB with a bargepole and, on the other, I defer to Larry who has first hand experience of doing so! My intuition is that if the Optane reservoir is massive, quiet and fast, why have two when one will do. Your crystal ball is also deep and large jaynyc! What makes you ponder this?

[jaynyc]

37 minutes ago, Iving said:

 

 Your crystal ball is also deep and large jaynyc! What makes you ponder this?

 

I am in the process of planning out my first real dedicated music server with the learnings from this and other forums, and since tech is always 'shifting' I'm just trying to plan for what the future looks like in terms of the audio specific considerations (1) how many LPS do I need now vs future if (not) powering external drives (2) what does the growth of my music collection look like (3) when do I pull the trigger on a motherboard, do I go the lower cost ITX supermicro X10SBA-L route 'for the near term' or do I wait a bit longer for a premium priced mATX with more PCIe slots (4) when does Optane capacity dramatically increase at consumer friendly prices etc..  

[Iving]

19 minutes ago, jaynyc said:

 

I am in the process of planning out my first real dedicated music server with the learnings from this and other forums, and since tech is always 'shifting' I'm just trying to plan for what the future looks like in terms of the audio specific considerations (1) how many LPS do I need now vs future if (not) powering external drives (2) what does the growth of my music collection look like (3) when do I pull the trigger on a motherboard, do I go the lower cost ITX supermicro X10SBA-L route 'for the near term' or do I wait a bit longer for a premium priced mATX with more PCIe slots (4) when does Optane capacity dramatically increase at consumer friendly prices etc..  

fwiw

on 1. LPSs for external drives are moot to me since I disconnect or disable everything except Optane

on 2. difficult call that one - but even f it grows greatly drives will be much bigger in the future

on 3. yes i get that - pretend you are single - be patient and the right one/time will come ;-) [get the best you can afford]

on 4. 2-5 years? but in that timescale who knows what else will have overtaken Optane

[jaynyc]

so I'm curious, if I were to go the low power route X10SBA-L motherboard with

"1x PCI-E x2 (in x8) slot"

http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/celeron/x10/x10sba-l.cfm

 

could I put this

"x4 PCI Express to M.2 PCIe SSD Adapter"

https://www.startech.com/HDD/Adapters/pci-express-m2-pcie-ssd-adapter~PEX4M2E1

"Compatible with PCIe 3.0 motherboards, and backward compatible with PCIe 2.0 and PCIe 1.0"

 

into the PCI-E slot and run an Optane M2 as my bootOS drive?

[rickca]

52 minutes ago, jaynyc said:

so I'm curious, if I were to go the low power route X10SBA-L motherboard with

"1x PCI-E x2 (in x8) slot"

http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/celeron/x10/x10sba-l.cfm

 

could I put this

"x4 PCI Express to M.2 PCIe SSD Adapter"

https://www.startech.com/HDD/Adapters/pci-express-m2-pcie-ssd-adapter~PEX4M2E1

"Compatible with PCIe 3.0 motherboards, and backward compatible with PCIe 2.0 and PCIe 1.0"

 

into the PCI-E slot and run an Optane M2 as my bootOS drive?

I don't think the X10SBA-L supports NVMe drives.  Optane is NVMe only.

[lmitche]

21 hours ago, jaynyc said:

so I'm curious, if I were to go the low power route X10SBA-L motherboard with

"1x PCI-E x2 (in x8) slot"

http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/celeron/x10/x10sba-l.cfm

 

could I put this

"x4 PCI Express to M.2 PCIe SSD Adapter"

https://www.startech.com/HDD/Adapters/pci-express-m2-pcie-ssd-adapter~PEX4M2E1

"Compatible with PCIe 3.0 motherboards, and backward compatible with PCIe 2.0 and PCIe 1.0"

 

into the PCI-E slot and run an Optane M2 as my bootOS drive?

Yes, that's the only way to get Optane support on this motherboard. It may or may not sound good.

[tboooe]

I have a Gigabyte z270 MX Gaming mobo that supports Optane.  However, my CPU, a i7-6700 does not so I will need to upgrade to at least an i7-7700.   Anyway, if I use the Optane as a drive cache, can I then just remove the SSD from the PC?  Or is it best to use Optane as another drive and clone my OS SSD on to it?

[Johnseye]

37 minutes ago, tboooe said:

I have a Gigabyte z270 MX Gaming mobo that supports Optane.  However, my CPU, a i7-6700 does not so I will need to upgrade to at least an i7-7700.   Anyway, if I use the Optane as a drive cache, can I then just remove the SSD from the PC?  Or is it best to use Optane as another drive and clone my OS SSD on to it?

 

The Optane card can either be used to host the OS or as ancillary memory.  I'm currently using it in the OS host form.  I will be testing it as memory, while using an SSD as the OS as well as comparing it without Optane all together.  When using it as memory you'll need to install the Intel software after OS installation.  When using it as an OS this isn't necessary.

 

Some steps need to be taken when using Optane you should be aware of.  You can slip the drivers into the Windows installer as they're not currently included.  You can also add them when you select the OS drive.  Make sure UEFI and Optane are enabled in the BIOS.

 

I know you're probably looking for a 7700K as I think you upsample to DSD512, but if you wanted a 7700T I have one to sell.

[tboooe]

9 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

Some steps need to be taken when using Optane you should be aware of.  You can slip the drivers into the Windows installer as they're not currently included.  You can also add them when you select the OS drive.  Make sure UEFI and Optane are enabled in the BIOS.

 

I know you're probably looking for a 7700K as I think you upsample to DSD512, but if you wanted a 7700T I have one to sell.

Thank you...not sure what you mean about "slip the drivers into the Windows installer.."?  Are you referring to when I clone my current SSD?  When I clone the drive wont everything get copied including software I installed such as HQP, Roon, etc?

 

Thank for letting me know about the 7700T you have.  I just checked and the 7700T is about the same performance 6700 I have.  I cant get the i7-7700K because I run a fanless case.  Can you please PM the price you are selling the 7700T?

[rickca]

51 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

I will be testing it as memory, while using an SSD as the OS as well as comparing it without Optane all together.

Are you aware of this recent development?  I'm not sure whether it's something you want to try if you decide to keep your OS on an SSD.

With the latest Intel® Optane™ memory and Intel® Rapid Storage Technology (Intel® RST) applications (Version 16.0.2.1086 or later), the Secondary/Data drive can be accelerated with Intel Optane memory modules.

 

I assume your OS SSD is SATA?  Optane memory can only accelerate SATA storage media (including SATA SSD).

[lmitche]

2 hours ago, tboooe said:

I have a Gigabyte z270 MX Gaming mobo that supports Optane.  However, my CPU, a i7-6700 does not so I will need to upgrade to at least an i7-7700.   Anyway, if I use the Optane as a drive cache, can I then just remove the SSD from the PC?  Or is it best to use Optane as another drive and clone my OS SSD on to it?

This thread is all about using Optane as a boot SSD.  Most of us use a i7-6700k with z170 or z270 motherboards.

 

Yes, with an Optane ready CPU you can use the Optane chip as a cache for a hard disk. I have never tried this, nor do I know anyone who has.

 

So please don't upgrade your i7-6700k CPU for Optane support, you don't need it.

[tboooe]

19 minutes ago, lmitche said:

 

So please don't upgrade your i7-6700k CPU for Optane support, you don't need it.

 

Oh...I clearly need to look into this more.  I thought my CPU (i7-6700) wont support Optane?  So you are saying I can buy an Optane module, install it in my Z270 mobo and the system will recognize as just another drive?

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, tboooe said:

 

Oh...I clearly need to look into this more.  I thought my CPU (i7-6700) wont support Optane?  So you are saying I can buy an Optane module, install it in my Z270 mobo and the system will recognize as just another drive?

Yes

[Johnseye]

1 hour ago, rickca said:

Are you aware of this recent development?  I'm not sure whether it's something you want to try if you decide to keep your OS on an SSD.

With the latest Intel® Optane™ memory and Intel® Rapid Storage Technology (Intel® RST) applications (Version 16.0.2.1086 or later), the Secondary/Data drive can be accelerated with Intel Optane memory modules.

 

I assume your OS SSD is SATA?  Optane memory can only accelerate SATA storage media (including SATA SSD).

 

Yes, this is what I was referring to in my post to Ted as one of the options.  It will be one of the things I try.  Currently the Optane stick is being used as a hard drive.  I also have a SATA SSD.  I will install the OS onto it and use the Optane stick as an ancillary memory/cache. 

 

1 hour ago, tboooe said:

 

Oh...I clearly need to look into this more.  I thought my CPU (i7-6700) wont support Optane?  So you are saying I can buy an Optane module, install it in my Z270 mobo and the system will recognize as just another drive?

 

Yes, this is what I was referring to regarding adding the drivers.  You can add the Optane driver during Windows install and it will recognize Optane as a hd to install the OS onto.  The motherboard/chipset and compatible proc just need to support it.

 

By slip I mean slipstream.  You would slipstream the Optane driver into the Windows package.  Intel provides a detailed step by step instruction on how to do this at their Optane site.

[tboooe]

17 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

 

Yes, this is what I was referring to regarding adding the drivers.  You can add the Optane driver during Windows install and it will recognize Optane as a hd to install the OS onto.  The motherboard/chipset and compatible proc just need to support it.

 

By slip I mean slipstream.  You would slipstream the Optane driver into the Windows package.  Intel provides a detailed step by step instruction on how to do this at their Optane site.

Thank you.  I prefer to not go through the hassle of completely reinstalling my system. Can't I just manually install the Optane  drivers onto my current SSD, clone it onto the Optane drive?

[Johnseye]

Just now, tboooe said:

Thank you.  I prefer to not go through the hassle of completely reinstalling my system. Can't I just manually install the Optane  drivers onto my current SSD, clone it onto the Optane drive?

 

I'm not sure where the driver would be stored in the OS or if there are registry settings required. The installer is for memory use, not hard drive but you could try. Can't hurt. 

[lmitche]

18 minutes ago, tboooe said:

Thank you.  I prefer to not go through the hassle of completely reinstalling my system. Can't I just manually install the Optane  drivers onto my current SSD, clone it onto the Optane drive?

Yes, you can just clone an existing drive. There is no need for drivers.  Linux dd works well as does paragon migrate.

[Johnseye]

17 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Yes, you can just clone an existing drive. There is no need for drivers.  Linux dd works well as does paragon migrate.

 

Good to know. When I did a fresh install Windows needed. The drivers to see the Optane. 

[lmitche]

37 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Good to know. When I did a fresh install Windows needed. The drivers to see the Optane. 

Well I could be wrong, but I don't remember loading drivers.  I'll look when home later.

[tboooe]

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

Yes, you can just clone an existing drive. There is no need for drivers.  Linux dd works well as does paragon migrate.

Sounds good. I'm going to buy the 58gb 800p Optane now. Looking forward to trying this out.

 

Question...I'm trying to figure out where I need to move my existing dual fiber NIC I have currently installed in the PCIEx8 slot which is shared with the PCIEx16 slot (not used in my system).  I read the mobo manual and its not clear which lane the m.2 connector uses.  Since it's closest to the PCIEx16 slot should I assume thats the one it uses?  My mobo is a Gigabyte Z270MX Gaming 5.  Thank you.

[rickca]

1 hour ago, tboooe said:

I read the mobo manual and its not clear which lane the m.2 connector uses. 

From page 17 of the manual, the M.2 connector uses PCIe lanes from the chipset.

Due to the limited number of lanes provided by the Chipset, the availability of the SATA connectors may be affected by the type of device installed in the M2A_32G connector. The M2A_32G connector shares bandwidth with the SATA3 0 connector.

[rickca]

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

Well I could be wrong, but I don't remember loading drivers.

You don't need drivers if you just use Optane as an NVMe SSD.  You need the RST driver if you want to use Optane as a cache for another drive.