Optane SSD as Boot drive - SQ Nirvana?

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, seeteeyou said:

https://ark.intel.com/products/99742/Intel-Optane-Memory-Series-32GB-M_2-80mm-PCIe-3_0-20nm-3D-Xpoint

 

USB 3.0 ports should be good for delivering up to 900 mA and iFi Audio iGalvanic 3.0 is bus-powered, that means 4.5 Watts at best and maybe that wouldn't provide enough juice for powering something like this with 32GB Optane?

 

 

LPS-1 should be able to provide up to 5.5 Watts and I assume that USB 2.0 output of ISO REGEN won't supply anything higher than 500 mA. Most likely that wouldn't really work for music storage.

 

So far nobody seemed to be selling an enclosure for M.2 drives with external DC power input yet, most likely it's no go unless we mod that ourselves.

Interesting idea, but I am pretty sure the latency will negate any benefit here.  There however pcie boards that could be used to provide an nvme slot.

[scan80269]

1 hour ago, seeteeyou said:

https://ark.intel.com/products/99742/Intel-Optane-Memory-Series-32GB-M_2-80mm-PCIe-3_0-20nm-3D-Xpoint

 

USB 3.0 ports should be good for delivering up to 900 mA and iFi Audio iGalvanic 3.0 is bus-powered, that means 4.5 Watts at best and maybe that wouldn't provide enough juice for powering something like this with 32GB Optane?

 

 

LPS-1 should be able to provide up to 5.5 Watts and I assume that USB 2.0 output of ISO REGEN won't supply anything higher than 500 mA. Most likely that wouldn't really work for music storage.

 

So far nobody seemed to be selling an enclosure for M.2 drives with external DC power input yet, most likely it's no go unless we mod that ourselves.

The Optane memory sticks support NVMe protocol only and use 2 lanes of PCIe, so they won' work when installed into USB drive enclosures that are compatible only with SATA M.2 SSDs talking AHCI protocol.

 

 

[lmitche]

Good to have cleared that up, thanks!

[baconbrain]

@ Imitche: I took the dive and ordered an Optane. Curious to hear the result. Thanks for the detailed explanations.

[lmitche]

Good to know, I look forward hearing how this works out for you.

[rickca]

On 7/13/2017 at 5:54 AM, lmitche said:

do you think the Optane stick works in non-nvme slot?

M.2 is just a form factor.  The bus (SATA vs PCIe/NVMe) is a different matter.  Motherboards need NVMe support for NVMe drives to be bootable.  Most recent motherboards support both M.2 SATA and M.2 NVMe SSD.  Some motherboards might support only one or the other.  You really have to check with the motherboard vendor.

 

Some NVMe drives (like the Samsung 950 Pro/960 Pro) have a downloadable NVMe driver.  According to Intel, Optane uses the Microsoft-provided NVMe driver in Windows 10.

[rickca]

On 7/13/2017 at 10:41 AM, seeteeyou said:

So far nobody seemed to be selling an enclosure for M.2 drives with external DC power input yet

If you want to try it, here is one ... but I have no idea how it performs.  I've been looking for the same thing.  

 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2RP3T32281&cm_mmc=unlocked-_-review-_-WBTUO-_-m.2ssdraidenclosure

 

Note that these enclosures only work with SATA M.2 SSD, not NVMe SSD.

 

If you get one, please let us know about your experiences.

 

[michaeltay5871]

Back to using Optane memory as the boot drive, we are actually limited to using it as a NVMe.  We would require the necessary Optane supported motherboard, CPU (7th Gen), W10 and Sata SSD/HDD to use the Optane drivers and software to achieve the Optane technology.  Use of Sata for boot drive will probably be less desirable so we are back to using Optane stick as NVMe.

 

Just wonder whether as a NVMe it sound better than the normal ones since it is constructed and worked differently.

 

[ted_b]

With the remote help from Larry @lmitche I installed a 32GB Optane m.2 NVME today inh my HQP server, cloned my Windows 10 C drive partition, and it boots nicely (and quickly).  I will let it run in a bit and then listen seriously tmrw night and report back.  My previous 6 TB hdd (Windows 10 OS and 2 channel favorites) which was connected to the M.2 slot via adapter is now in SATA1 slot with same 6 inch silver SATA cable, and relegated to simply doing music now.  It is later slated for Adnaco in phase 2.

[mourip]

3 hours ago, ted_b said:

With the remote help from Larry @lmitche I installed a 32GB Optane m.2 NVME today inh my HQP server, cloned my Windows 10 C drive partition, and it boots nicely (and quickly). ...

 

Hi ted. What did you use for your cloning software?

[lmitche]

Ted used Paragon Migrate in the end.

[mourip]

6 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Ted, used Paragon Migrate in the end.

 

Thanks!

 

[ted_b]

37 minutes ago, mourip said:

 

Hi ted. What did you use for your cloning software?

I first tried AOMEI backupper (already used it for other cloning), and then tried EaseUS (free), and although both seemed to clone the C drive, the resultant Optane drive was non-bootable.  It wasn't until I used Larry's recommendation, Paragon Migrate OS to SSD V4 (or V5) that the process included check marks for making sure things like the boot partition was included.  Once cloned the new Optane drive was immediately bootable. 

[Louie]

On 23/7/2017 at 10:41 AM, lmitche said:

Ted used Paragon Migrate in the end.

Hi Larry, can you teach me how to trim down the win10? I am running a Win10 Enterprise onto a MSATA for around 60G, and I am using HQP to play my music.

[baconbrain]

On 7/23/2017 at 1:36 AM, ted_b said:

With the remote help from Larry @lmitche I installed a 32GB Optane m.2 NVME today inh my HQP server, cloned my Windows 10 C drive partition, and it boots nicely (and quickly).  I will let it run in a bit and then listen seriously tmrw night and report back.  My previous 6 TB hdd (Windows 10 OS and 2 channel favorites) which was connected to the M.2 slot via adapter is now in SATA1 slot with same 6 inch silver SATA cable, and relegated to simply doing music now.  It is later slated for Adnaco in phase 2.

 

I am curious as to your listening perception...

[ted_b]

So, after early but serious listening it is clear that the local HQP server (Windows 10 running on Optane) going direct is going to work in my listening room.  I cannot hear the box at all from my listening position, which is fairly amazing given that it has 7 fans in it (2 cpu fans, 2 video card fans, a rear exhaust fan and two front panel fans...all Noctua except the video card).  Each chassis fan has a fan filter inline, which produced a subtle but noticeable noise floor reduction when I installed them months ago.  In fact, I occasionally hear the hard drive on my DirecTV DVR box (another rack off to the right) when the room is music-less, but nothing from the server at all.

 

 It has laid down quite a gauntlet for my upcoming NAA comparisons, especially the mini-review I plan to do on the ultraRendu (inhouse and warming up).  Aside from the ultraRendu as NAA I have a Caps Carbon Windows Server 2012R1 NAA, using AO, dedicated power supplies and a JCAT Femto card (also mini-review due soon...and I will install that card in the server to compare).  As a side note, the JCAT Femto replaces a v1 JCAT card and it is no contest, the Femto version is significantly quieter and produces a more 3D soundstage than it's 2015 older brother.  The other NAA I have is the standard 1.3 microRendu, which will be directly compared against the ultraRendu in my mini-review.

 

I need to keep in mind the following sub-standard setup issues with the HQP server currently (i.e it has one hand tied behind its back):

1)  TotalDac USB cable from mobo USB to ISO Regen, instead of at the back end.  I haven't redone the front rack system to accommodate the server aligning up and using a USPCB and thereby putting the USB cable (soon to be Lush added to the comparison) more properly AFTER the ISO Regen

2)  I haven't turned off the other USB ports in the bios yet

3)  I haven't removed several more inconsequential Windows processes (might need Larry's help, although my Windows 10 AO has clearly pared down Windows processes significantly to date).

4)  I haven't installed the JCAT Femto card in the server to compare.  As another aside, Larry is betting on the mobo USB port. 

 

 

[scan80269]

On 7/23/2017 at 10:57 PM, Louie said:

Hi Larry, can you teach me how to trim down the win10? I am running a Win10 Enterprise onto a MSATA for around 60G, and I am using HQP to play my music.

Here are a few tips to shrink the storage footprint of Windows 10:

 

- Disable Windows hibernation to remove the hibernate file (hiberfil.sys):  powercfg -h off

- Shrink or remove the paging file (pagefile.sys)

- Consolidate disk space used by the WinSxS folder:

   dism /online /cleanup-image /startcomponentcleanup /resetbase

- Run Disk Cleanup (cleanmgr.exe)

 

[ted_b]

My likely-cluttered Windows 10 AO'd C drive is 19GB on the 28GB usable Optane 32GB m.2 nvme stick.

[lmitche]

On 7/24/2017 at 1:57 AM, Louie said:

Hi Larry, can you teach me how to trim down the win10? I am running a Win10 Enterprise onto a MSATA for around 60G, and I am using HQP to play my music.

I always download and run Windirstat to find where the space is used. Doing this on a friend's machine recently, we found four copies of room databases.  Deleting all but one freed enough space for the Optane transfer.

[yamamoto2002]

On 2017/7/24 at 2:57 PM, Louie said:

Hi Larry, can you teach me how to trim down the win10? I am running a Win10 Enterprise onto a MSATA for around 60G, and I am using HQP to play my music.

 

It is good to find unused older graphics driver packages on driver store using PnPUtil and delete it to free disk space. In my case, multiple older Nvidia graphics drivers took several GB of my 80GB SSD.

 

[baconbrain]

I have noticed that the latest version of my mainboard bios now provides for the selection of either AHCI or Intel RST Premium SATA Drivers. Does anyone have any insight as to which should be utilized with the Optane?

[lmitche]

20 minutes ago, baconbrain said:

I have noticed that the latest version of my mainboard bios now provides for the selection of either AHCI or Intel RST Premium SATA Drivers. Does anyone have any insight as to which should be utilized with the Optane?

The answer depends on how you are using the Optane stick.  If as an SSD as suggested here, the AHCI drivers work perfectly.  If you have a z270 motherboard you could use the Intel RST driver and use the Optane as a cache device for a hard disk.

 

I haven't tried the second option, so can't discuss sound quality.

[Forehaven]

Hi Larry,

At Ted's suggestion, I tried moving my pc upstairs to listening room to listen to USB direct. So PC to IsoReg to SU 1 (both powered by LPS 1's) to Spring via I2S. 

Holy Smokes!  It rocks.  Octane on order.  Strong work Larry and Ted!

 

[fitman]

18 hours ago, lmitche said:

The answer depends on how you are using the Optane stick.  If as an SSD as suggested here, the AHCI drivers work perfectly.  If you have a z270 motherboard you could use the Intel RST driver and use the Optane as a cache device for a hard disk.

 

I haven't tried the second option, so can't discuss sound quality.

If I select AHCI, do I need to install Optane driver for my win10?

[scan80269]

21 minutes ago, fitman said:

If I select AHCI, do I need to install Optane driver for my win10?

AHCI is for SATA drives.  Optane memory sticks talk PCIe x2 interface and support NVMe protocol only.  To use Optane memory as SSD for booting Win10, the inbox Win10 NVMe driver (stornvme.sys) should automatically install to provide the proper boot support during OS installation.  In essence, you can just pretend the Optane memory stick is a 32GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD, and Win10 will support it just like any other M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD in the market.