Optane SSD as Boot drive - SQ Nirvana?

[tboooe]

I have a Gigabyte z270 MX Gaming mobo that supports Optane.  However, my CPU, a i7-6700 does not so I will need to upgrade to at least an i7-7700.   Anyway, if I use the Optane as a drive cache, can I then just remove the SSD from the PC?  Or is it best to use Optane as another drive and clone my OS SSD on to it?

[tboooe]

9 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

Some steps need to be taken when using Optane you should be aware of.  You can slip the drivers into the Windows installer as they're not currently included.  You can also add them when you select the OS drive.  Make sure UEFI and Optane are enabled in the BIOS.

 

I know you're probably looking for a 7700K as I think you upsample to DSD512, but if you wanted a 7700T I have one to sell.

Thank you...not sure what you mean about "slip the drivers into the Windows installer.."?  Are you referring to when I clone my current SSD?  When I clone the drive wont everything get copied including software I installed such as HQP, Roon, etc?

 

Thank for letting me know about the 7700T you have.  I just checked and the 7700T is about the same performance 6700 I have.  I cant get the i7-7700K because I run a fanless case.  Can you please PM the price you are selling the 7700T?

[tboooe]

19 minutes ago, lmitche said:

 

So please don't upgrade your i7-6700k CPU for Optane support, you don't need it.

 

Oh...I clearly need to look into this more.  I thought my CPU (i7-6700) wont support Optane?  So you are saying I can buy an Optane module, install it in my Z270 mobo and the system will recognize as just another drive?

[tboooe]

17 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

 

Yes, this is what I was referring to regarding adding the drivers.  You can add the Optane driver during Windows install and it will recognize Optane as a hd to install the OS onto.  The motherboard/chipset and compatible proc just need to support it.

 

By slip I mean slipstream.  You would slipstream the Optane driver into the Windows package.  Intel provides a detailed step by step instruction on how to do this at their Optane site.

Thank you.  I prefer to not go through the hassle of completely reinstalling my system. Can't I just manually install the Optane  drivers onto my current SSD, clone it onto the Optane drive?

[tboooe]

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

Yes, you can just clone an existing drive. There is no need for drivers.  Linux dd works well as does paragon migrate.

Sounds good. I'm going to buy the 58gb 800p Optane now. Looking forward to trying this out.

 

Question...I'm trying to figure out where I need to move my existing dual fiber NIC I have currently installed in the PCIEx8 slot which is shared with the PCIEx16 slot (not used in my system).  I read the mobo manual and its not clear which lane the m.2 connector uses.  Since it's closest to the PCIEx16 slot should I assume thats the one it uses?  My mobo is a Gigabyte Z270MX Gaming 5.  Thank you.

[tboooe]

9 minutes ago, rickca said:

From page 17 of the manual, the M.2 connector uses PCIe lanes from the chipset.

Due to the limited number of lanes provided by the Chipset, the availability of the SATA connectors may be affected by the type of device installed in the M2A_32G connector. The M2A_32G connector shares bandwidth with the SATA3 0 connector.

Thank you...so I wont have any conflict with my dual fiber NIC installed on the PCIEx8 slot?

[tboooe]

4 minutes ago, rickca said:

No conflict, but I'm pretty sure @lmitche is advocating putting Optane in a slot directly connected to the CPU rather than the chipset.  I'll let Larry advise you further on that.

ahhh..so in this case I would use the Asus card then instead of using the m.2 connector?

[tboooe]

1 minute ago, lmitche said:

Yes, that is the idea, but which PCIE slots vary by board.

Ok, I am going to have to compare the Asus card with connecting the Optane directly to the m.2 connector.

 

As for deciding which PCIE slot to use, how do I decide?  What exactly should I be looking for in the mobo manual?

[tboooe]

Curious if anyone has done a  comparison between uisng the Asus Hyper card and connecting the Optane module directly to the m.2 slot?  

[tboooe]

5 minutes ago, rando said:

 

This sounded a bit odd to me as so much as been made of W10 choosing (controlling ) drivers including overwriting user installed ones.  So I punched up Intel and came away with the driver you should be using for your Optane drives.  I would expect since this Intel driver package includes a user interface it would be worth investigating.  Let me know if this has any beneficial results in your system.

I believe this driver is only needed if you are using Optane as a cache.  If you are only using it as an SSD then drivers are not needed it seems.

[tboooe]

Optane 800p 56gb stick ordered and arriving tomorrow via Prime...will report findings shortly.

[tboooe]

It seems people are using Paragon Migrate to clone their hard drive to the Optane stick.  Is there a free version or do I have to pay the $30 for a license.  Just want to make sure before I buy it.

[tboooe]

Got my 800p 58gb Optane stick today and just installed it on my mobo.  In device manager I see it listed as functioning properly.  However, I do not see it listed as a drive (D, E, etc).  I am running Server 2016.  Any ideas?

[tboooe]

24 minutes ago, lmitche said:

What does disk manager say?  Is it formatted?

Thank you for the reply.  

 

I cant access Disk Manager since I am using Server 2016 Core.  Based on your reply I did more searching.  I found a youtube video that seems to explain that I need to manually partition this drive and give it a drive letter via Powershell. Stupid me thought this NVME would be like using a USB memory stick.

 

Here is the video if anyone is interested for the Powershell commands.

 

[tboooe]

New 64gb Optane model introduced.  Seems it is the same as the 800p 58gb version I just bought but rebranded as M10.

 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12748/the-intel-optane-memory-m10-64gb-review-optane-caching-refreshed

[tboooe]

13 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

How's the drive working out?

I got it installed and recognized as E:.

 

I am having lots of issues trying to figure out the best way to clone my current OS.  The issue is I am using Server 2016 in core mode so there is no user interface. I tried installing Paragon but couldnt get the user interface to run.  Any suggestions would be appreciated. I am thinking about just doing a clean install on the Optane stick and saving the fuss.

[tboooe]

1 minute ago, lmitche said:

Boot linix boot a USB stick and DD the drive. Works here very well.

thank you for that suggestion but I must admit I am over my head.  I dont know what DD the drive means.

[tboooe]

Finally got my 800p 58gb Optane stick installed and working.  Instead of cloning my current Samsung Pro SSD, I decided to just do a clean install of Server 2016 in core mode, HQP, and Roonserver.  Even though the only thing that changed in my PC was the Optane stick, I am having some strange networking issues.  First, when i try to set a fixed IP address, I get very inconsistent performance.  Remote desktop frequently wont connect and my Roon remote wont connect with Roonserver.  Second, HQP on this PC doesnt find the NAA consistently.  

 

My impressions:

I definitely notice browsing through Roon is snappier. Album art and artist images load up more quickly as my browse Roon.  

 

In terms of sound, my initial impression after only a few hours of listening is of a blacker background, a level of quiet that allows me to hear more details of the music.  The difference is not night and day but noticeable.  

 

At the moment, the Optane stick is installed in the M.2 slot.  I am going to get the Asus card and install it the PCEIx16 slot to compare the connection through the chipset vs the cpu directly.

[tboooe]

After having the Optane drive in my system now for a few days I think i have zeroed in on the affect it has on my system.

 

First and foremost, my initial impression of the lack of background noise remains though it goes beyond this.  The one adjective I keep going back to in my mind is pristine.  The notes, the music, the voice sound like there is absolutely nothing adulterating them.  The clarity and purity of the sound is at a level my system has never had before.  

 

The second change I noticed was in soundstage depth and layering.  One complaint I've had of my system is how flat the soundstage.  The music sounds like it coming from one plane.  I was resigned to this shortcoming, believing it was caused by my small listening room.  With the Optane drive, I notice more layering of the music, front to back.  This impression is helped by the fact that voices are a bit more forward so the layering is more pronounced.  The overall impact is that there is now a dimensionality that adds to the realism and overall engagement I feel with the music.

 

Its really hard to believe that changing the OS drive from SSD to Optane would have this impact on my system.  For around $125 I would say this upgrade is definitely worth it.  Thank you to @lmitche for bringing this to my attention with this thread.

[tboooe]

I got such good results using an Optane drive in my HQP server PC, I am not thinking about ugrading my NAA PC to something that is also compatible with Optane.  The NAA does not need to be very powerful so I was thinking of getting one of those mini PC NUC kits.  However, the least powerful and cheapest Celeron version does not support Optane.  I have to move up to the i5 version which cost more than double.  

 

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/boards-kits/nuc/kits/nuc7i5bnh.html

 

Any thoughts on this?  Are there other small, low powered PCs that support Optane as a drive?

[tboooe]

3 hours ago, lmitche said:

Maybe you should try a direct USB connection to your DAC like many of us? You may be surprised.

Thank you but I have been down that road many times in the past and I have always felt my system sounds better with a 2 pc setup.

 

1 hour ago, scan80269 said:

Intel's NUC7i3BNH with i3-7100U processor has an M.2 2280 slot and can support Optane as SSD.  This NUC is cheaper than NUC7i5BNH.

 

 

ahhhh....not sure how I missed that model.  Bad news is that its not fanless.  Good news is I can get a fanless case for it.   Going to have to seriously consider this.

[tboooe]

Check this out guys...passive cooling for m.2 SSD.  Not sure if this is really needed in our applications but it sure looks cool!  According to HWMonitor my Optane reaches about 50C which seems hot!  According to Intel though the operating temp is 0-70C.  I may have to look into something like this.

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/m.2-ssd-heatpipe-cooler-throttle,37101.html

 

[tboooe]

Hey guys...just an FYI...my mobo today all of sudden decided to go into an endless bootloop.  I figured out there is some issue with the lastest version of the bios supporting Optane causing it not work with XMP profiles.  After some searching it seems this is a well known issue with my mobo, a Gigabyte Z270MX Gaming 5.  The solution is to not use XMP.  Not sure if running my RAM at the lower speed instead of 3000Mhz impacts the sound in anyway.  I need to test.

 

Anyway, here is a post I did on this issue with the link describing the issue in more detail.  BTW, the issue was reported back in 2017 and Gigabyte still has yet to come up with a solution.

 

[tboooe]

10 minutes ago, lmitche said:

 

 

I run my memory at 2400 MHz.  Last I checked a year ago, faster had a negative SQ impact.

Good to know!  BTW, whats really weird is that my mobo worked fine for the past week since I installed the Optane.  I've rebooted numerous times without a problem.  Then today, while playing music it just shut down and rebooted endlessly.  Why would it happen now instead of right away when I first installed the Optane?

[tboooe]

Check this out guys...NVME over fiber optic.  Could this improve sound even more by reducing noise?

https://www.itprotoday.com/object-storage/introduction-nvme-over-fabric