Can anyone answer this question about iMac/ iTunes

[Larry Croft]

I would appreciate one of the posters on here who understand the math involved to explain to me EXACTLY the path my 16/44 file sitting in iTunes on my 2007 iMac (Maverick) takes when it leaves iTunes. My iMac is wired via cat 6 cable to an Airport Extreme (newest model) Then on via cat 6 cable to a Netgear gigabit switch which in turn is WIRED via cat 6 cable again to: 4 Apple TV's (latest version) then from the ATV's to 4 AV Receivers all with 24/192 CAPABLE D/A's vis toslink directly to back of amps; 1 Apple Express (latest version) again to an AV Receiver with 24/192 CAPABLE via toslink into the amp; and one Airplay speaker via the ethernet cable directly. (Total 4 ethernet wired ATVs to 4 AV Receivers + 1 ethernet wired Airport Express to 1 AV Receiver + 1 Airplay speaker directly via ethernet cable. The iMac itself is connected to Audioengine 2's via dragonfly. I use bit perfect when listening only to the iMac speakers because bit perfect will not stream over the airplay network to the other systems. I turn off the bit perfect program when i am playing all over the house.

 

Everything on this system is IN PERFECT SYNCH with respect to audio output (no delay in sound from one system to the next in other words ) The 5 AV Receiver units (middle of the road Onkyo, Yamahas and NAD's.) The systems have low end but very good (IMO) sounding speakers. (mainly PSB's) I never experience ANY problems with drop out or skipping or anything since i hard wired this system through my home. I have been running this for nearly 4 years (updating the Extreme, the AE & ATVs)

 

I FULLY UNDERSTAND the limitations of Airplay with respect to the current 16/44 files sitting on my iTunes library now along with the ATV's up sampling to a max of 48. Truth be known the files in iTunes on the iMac were mostly ripped from my CD collection (ALAC) (using the recommended settings) and the CD's that sounded "harsh" 30 years ago sound harsh (ripped to ALAC file) now. (of course the AAD ADD DDD discussion along with recording/mixing issues were just as argued and critiqued then as now) I left out the fact i am thinking about adding additional software to iTunes (in addition to Bit Perfect installed now) to keep the illustration a little simpler for me. In other words i want to better understand the path my music is taking now from the time it leaves iTunes to the respective systems before i add a program to sit on iTunes thus adding another variable. (Assume Bit Perfect is turned off)

 

I want to understand the paths my files take so as to better understand exactly how my network works because i just bought an Oppo 103. I was looking at it and discovered it had a LAN port on the rear. Being only a novice to networking protocol i was wondering IF the Oppo 103 is set up to receive the music file directly from the CAT 6 cabling (from the airplay system) then out to one of my amps? I see that more and more AV Receivers have ethernet ports. (none of my current AV Receivers have an ethernet port now) The same question applies to the newer AV Receivers as the Oppo 103 i have just purchased. Can the ethernet port on the back of those AV receivers be used to transmit the files "directly" to the amp's built in DAC then to the amp circuitry then on of course to the speakers? Obviously since iTunes can actually be capable of storing and transmitting higher resolution music files than 16/44 files this is of great interest to me. Is Airplay the limiting factor here? What is the exact relationship between iTunes and Airplay? Is there a way to move higher resolution files (should i store them in iTunes) out of my iMac into my wired ethernet network then on to my Oppo/ and future AV receivers with ethernet input ports (thus by passing the ATV's and AE) I am not interested in up sampling my current inventory of 16/44 i am just trying to plan for future music acquisitions. I may not be able to hear differences (higher resolution music files) - but i would like to see if I can. I am not through with upgrading my systems. But before i invest in higher quality speakers/amps i want to better understand my current home network. If someone could explain the exact route my music (digital) file takes from iTunes to my respective systems I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you Larry

[kirkmc]

I have a Cambridge Audio 651 BD, and it has an Ethernet port. You can use that port to update firmware, and in some limited situations to copy data from discs (such as ones from this label: http://www.2l.no). You cannot stream to it, however, unless the Oppo has new circuitry (The CA 651 BD is built on the same chassis as the Oppo). It should theoretically be possible to stream to an amp or receiver but I don't think I've ever heard of any that do this; receivers that allow this use USB or Toslink.

 

The thing is, there is no need for ethernet for streaming music; the bandwidth required is very limited. And using ethernet means you need either cabling or a hub, all of which adds complication to your system. USB works fine to most DACs, and I would expect it to work the same to receivers.

 

If you do want to stream high-res music, you need to do so via USB to a DAC (or if, by any chance, you have a receiver that allows a USB input).

 

Personally, I think the best investment is better speakers. I think investing in speakers gives a lot more bang for the buck than pretty much anything else you can add, especially since you say that your speakers are merely good.

[Larry Croft]

I have a Cambridge Audio 651 BD, and it has an Ethernet port. You can use that port to update firmware, and in some limited situations to copy data from discs (such as ones from this label: http://www.2l.no). You cannot stream to it, however, unless the Oppo has new circuitry (The CA 651 BD is built on the same chassis as the Oppo). It should theoretically be possible to stream to an amp or receiver but I don't think I've ever heard of any that do this; receivers that allow this use USB or Toslink.

 

The thing is, there is no need for ethernet for streaming music; the bandwidth required is very limited. And using ethernet means you need either cabling or a hub, all of which adds complication to your system. USB works fine to most DACs, and I would expect it to work the same to receivers.

 

If you do want to stream high-res music, you need to do so via USB to a DAC (or if, by any chance, you have a receiver that allows a USB input).

 

Personally, I think the best investment is better speakers. I think investing in speakers gives a lot more bang for the buck than pretty much anything else you can add, especially since you say that your speakers are merely good.

Thank you Kirk I have been reading (and being educated by) your posts all over the internet and finally found your site. This is exactly what i wanted to know. So you say that the ethernet (Lan) ports on the rear of newer AV Receivers are NOT for receiving digital (music) files? Thank you so much Larry

[kirkmc]

As far as I know, I've never heard of them being used like that. I have a feeling that ethernet, since it requires TCP/IP, would mean that there would have to be additional circuitry to decode that stream and convert it to PCM. Whereas (I think) it's sent as PCM directly over USB. So adding another layer of processing would be a waste.

 

My AV receiver - a Yamaha RX-A1010 - doesn't even have an ethernet port. It's not that old either; I bought it about five years ago. The manual for my CA blu-ray player says:

 

"An Ethernet connection is provided for BD Live and other interactive features via the internet."

 

I've never had a disc that offers "interactive features" like that, but I don't buy many blu-rays.

[kirkmc]

I found this article that's interesting:

 

http://www.cnet.com/news/six-reasons-receivers-shouldnt-be-media-streamers/

[Otto Nikolaus]

I have a Cambridge Audio 651 BD, and it has an Ethernet port. You can use that port to update firmware, and in some limited situations to copy data from discs (such as ones from this label: http://www.2l.no). You cannot stream to it, however, unless the Oppo has new circuitry (The CA 651 BD is built on the same chassis as the Oppo). It should theoretically be possible to stream to an amp or receiver but I don't think I've ever heard of any that do this; receivers that allow this use USB or Toslink.

 

The thing is, there is no need for ethernet for streaming music; the bandwidth required is very limited. And using ethernet means you need either cabling or a hub, all of which adds complication to your system. USB works fine to most DACs, and I would expect it to work the same to receivers.

 

If you do want to stream high-res music, you need to do so via USB to a DAC (or if, by any chance, you have a receiver that allows a USB input).

 

Personally, I think the best investment is better speakers. I think investing in speakers gives a lot more bang for the buck than pretty much anything else you can add, especially since you say that your speakers are merely good.

 

IMO streaming means "over a network" whereas USB is just another local non-streaming connection, like S/PDIF, Toslink, or HDMI. Streaming music over TCP/IP is increasingly common and it's strange that manufacturers would include an ethernet port without streaming capability. I should add that I see streaming as being either "push" or "pull". The first would be something like Airplay, where you "push" music from iTunes to a player/receiver; the second is where the player "pulls" the music from the library (often using a DLNA server). We have a Denon CEOL Piccolo and a DroidPlayer (an ATV-like box running XBMC/Kodi on Android) which can do both. We also have a Sony TV which can do "pull" streaming, so why can't AV receivers do at least that?

 

I agree about ethernet not being required for streaming; 11g Wi-Fi should be plenty fast enough, even for hi-res. I think that high end streamer makers like Linn and Naim prefer ethernet for reasons of greater reliability and freedom from dropouts/interference.

[kirkmc]

Yes, there are hi-fi streaming devices that do the "pull," but I'm pretty sure no one does push streaming over ethernet. Pull streaming means the device is simply reading the contents of the folders you select. It then pulls the files in, transcodes them, and plays them.

 

My guess is, again, that USB is easier and cheaper, and also allows for the clock synchronization needed more easily. But that's just a guess; audio equipment never ceases to astonish me in what it can or cannot do.

[Otto Nikolaus]

Yes, there are hi-fi streaming devices that do the "pull," but I'm pretty sure no one does push streaming over ethernet. Pull streaming means the device is simply reading the contents of the folders you select. It then pulls the files in, transcodes them, and plays them.

Is AirPlay Wi-Fi only? I've never tried it over ethernet so I don't know. It all goes over the network so why can't it use ethernet in principle (unless Apple has deliberately restricted it to Wi-Fi)?

 

This is something that has always puzzled me: why can't our Sony "smart" TV simply access media files in the way a computer does? It can't access the music or video files on the NAS unless a DLNA server is running on it. Is this because it lacks AFP/SMB/NFS networking? OTOH a DLNA server gives you iTunes-like functions such as playlists and different "views" (By Artist, By Album, By Artist/Album, etc.), which normal file system access can't. I think the Linn and Naim streamers also require a DLNA server. Whether DLNA plays a vital part in synchronisation I don't know.

 

My guess is, again, that USB is easier and cheaper, and also allows for the clock synchronization needed more easily. But that's just a guess; audio equipment never ceases to astonish me in what it can or cannot do.

Yes, but this isn't streaming over a network. It's really just linking a source and DAC.

[Larry Croft]

Otto there seems to be no one at the Apple Store Genius Bar that can answer that question. (WiFi only for Airplay?) I have 3 of my 4 Apple TV's wired with CAT 6 ethernet cable. I have an Airport Express Wired. I have an Airplay speaker wired with the CAT 6 cable. All of them wired via CAT 6 cable to an Airport Extreme via (CAT 6 cable) a Netgear Gigabit switch. I have the mother computer which houses iTunes (an iMac) wired directly to the Airport Extreme. Then i have the Airport Extreme wired to the Netgear Gigabit Switch. Then i have the rest of my systems described above wired directly to the Netgear Gigabit switch.

 

My settings (When i am watching video on the 3 Apple TV's on my respective TV's ) say i am in fact connected via ethernet. However when i stream iTunes music to all my systems (again to repeat - I have 7 systems, 3 wired ATV's 1 Wired AE, 1 Wireless ATV, 1 Wired Airplay speaker and one set of active speakers directly connected to the "mother" iMac - the computer that houses the "original" music selections on iTunes) I have NO WAY OF KNOWING if the ATV's that are wired, the AE that is wired and the Airplay speaker that is wired are in fact receiving the files via the ethernet connection or wirelessly. Obviously the ONE ATV i have that IS NOT WIRED is receiving the signals via the WiFi signal. I have tried asking on several websites and no one seems to know the answer. Apple acts like it's a national security issue when you inquire about iTunes and Airplay... On the ATV's i run HDMI to the respective TV's AND i run toslink from the ATV to my AV Receivers (5 of them - NONE with ethernet inputs however) I feel reasonably sure that since i can listen to iTunes without turning on the respective TV's that the ATV's are using the toslink cable to transmit the signal (however it gets there WiFi or ethernet !!!) to the AV Receivers directly without going through the TV's.

I am going to take Kirk's advice and invest in speakers. I have 4 sets of PSB's that i really like and one set of Andrew Jones designed Pioneers that were not expensive at all but sound great. However i believe Kirk is right about getting more bang for my buck at this stage by investing in higher quality speakers.

I would like to better understand the EXACT ROUTE my music files take from iTunes on my iMac until it reaches my ear however. If just to educate myself further !!!

[kirkmc]

AirPlay does go over ethernet to an Apple TV. However, you may need to tweak some settings to get it to work:

 

http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/24/how-to-get-airplay-working-when-apple-tv-is-hooked-up-via-ethern/

 

I can't find anything that says, however, that AirPlay works over ethernet to other devices. However, if you want to ensure that an Apple TV gets streams over ethernet, you need to make sure that it can't connect via wifi. The Apple TV only uses one active connection. So you would need to delete any wifi settings on the Apple TV and then connect your ethernet cable.

[Otto Nikolaus]

AirPlay does go over ethernet to an Apple TV. However, you may need to tweak some settings to get it to work:

 

http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/24/how-to-get-airplay-working-when-apple-tv-is-hooked-up-via-ethern/

 

I can't find anything that says, however, that AirPlay works over ethernet to other devices. However, if you want to ensure that an Apple TV gets streams over ethernet, you need to make sure that it can't connect via wifi. The Apple TV only uses one active connection. So you would need to delete any wifi settings on the Apple TV and then connect your ethernet cable.

I don't have a working ATV any more, but I have 2 other devices which support AirPlay. These are connected over Wi-Fi and it's inconvenient to connect them over ethernet instead, but it is easy to switch my MacBook Pro to ethernet (and switch off Wi-Fi to be sure). I've just done that and AirPlay in iTunes still works. The path is

MBP > ethernet > router > Wi-Fi > device (Piccolo or DroidPlayer)

As part of the route is ethernet, this means that AirPlay works over ethernet, ergo push streaming over ethernet exists.

[Otto Nikolaus]

Otto there seems to be no one at the Apple Store Genius Bar that can answer that question. (WiFi only for Airplay?) I have 3 of my 4 Apple TV's wired with CAT 6 ethernet cable. I have an Airport Express Wired. I have an Airplay speaker wired with the CAT 6 cable. All of them wired via CAT 6 cable to an Airport Extreme via (CAT 6 cable) a Netgear Gigabit switch. I have the mother computer which houses iTunes (an iMac) wired directly to the Airport Extreme. Then i have the Airport Extreme wired to the Netgear Gigabit Switch. Then i have the rest of my systems described above wired directly to the Netgear Gigabit switch.

 

My settings (When i am watching video on the 3 Apple TV's on my respective TV's ) say i am in fact connected via ethernet. However when i stream iTunes music to all my systems (again to repeat - I have 7 systems, 3 wired ATV's 1 Wired AE, 1 Wireless ATV, 1 Wired Airplay speaker and one set of active speakers directly connected to the "mother" iMac - the computer that houses the "original" music selections on iTunes) I have NO WAY OF KNOWING if the ATV's that are wired, the AE that is wired and the Airplay speaker that is wired are in fact receiving the files via the ethernet connection or wirelessly. Obviously the ONE ATV i have that IS NOT WIRED is receiving the signals via the WiFi signal. I have tried asking on several websites and no one seems to know the answer. Apple acts like it's a national security issue when you inquire about iTunes and Airplay... On the ATV's i run HDMI to the respective TV's AND i run toslink from the ATV to my AV Receivers (5 of them - NONE with ethernet inputs however) I feel reasonably sure that since i can listen to iTunes without turning on the respective TV's that the ATV's are using the toslink cable to transmit the signal (however it gets there WiFi or ethernet !!!) to the AV Receivers directly without going through the TV's.

I am going to take Kirk's advice and invest in speakers. I have 4 sets of PSB's that i really like and one set of Andrew Jones designed Pioneers that were not expensive at all but sound great. However i believe Kirk is right about getting more bang for my buck at this stage by investing in higher quality speakers.

I would like to better understand the EXACT ROUTE my music files take from iTunes on my iMac until it reaches my ear however. If just to educate myself further !!!

I think it is *assumed* that AirPlay in practice is used only over Wi-Fi, because just about everyone with a home network also has Wi-Fi, but as you will find in the 2 previous posts, it *does* work over ethernet. This is only logical, as it's just a different physical medium (Network Layer 1) for the same data.

 

You've got quite a setup there and I'm struggling to visualise it all. Must have been some wiring job.

 

When you say "stream iTunes", I take it you mean that you are using AirPlay? Can't you simply go into the settings of any ATV and switch off Wi-Fi (actually I would expect that to happen automatically when an ethernet cable is connected, but that's just my guess). But does it matter? AirPlay is surely sending the same data either way, and 11n or 11ac Wi-Fi is plenty fast enough for music. The remaining issue is: what does AirPlay do to the music signal? It looks like all audio is sent as ALAC at 44.1 kHz, 2-channel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirPlay. Is that what you meant by EXACT ROUTE? This rules out hi-res (> CD quality) from the start, although iTunes itself does support up to 96x24. If you want to play hi-res you will need a good streamer that "pulls" the audio from your library, probably via a DLNA server app, with a good enough DAC to make the best of it, and then probably better speakers and amps (in a dedicated system).

[kirkmc]

I have one of these:

 

http://www.mcelhearn.com/audio-equipment-review-cambridge-audio-minx-air-200-great-sound-in-a-small-package/

 

The manual says it works over ethernet. It's possible that some devices don't, however, so you'd have to test each device, or check its documentation. (My Minx Air is in a box; I'll try and get it out later and test it.)

[Otto Nikolaus]

I have one of these:

 

http://www.mcelhearn.com/audio-equipment-review-cambridge-audio-minx-air-200-great-sound-in-a-small-package/

 

The manual says it works over ethernet. It's possible that some devices don't, however, so you'd have to test each device, or check its documentation. (My Minx Air is in a box; I'll try and get it out later and test it.)

I don't see why it wouldn't: it shouldn't matter if the connection is ethernet or Wi-Fi but, as you say, you would need to try it to be absolutely sure.

 

It seems to do a lot in a small package, but I think a Piccolo plus 2 speakers would be better value if you have the space. Does it do "pull" streaming as well as AirPlay?

[kirkmc]

No, it's only a streaming device: it does AirPlay and Bluetooth. And it has really great sound. The only reason it's boxed is because it has a strong plastic smell, and that bothers my asthma. (I should sell it, in fact.) I currently use a Sonos 5 in my bedroom, connected to an AirPort Express, and I'd rather have an AirPlay device to not need the AirPort Express there.

[Otto Nikolaus]

No, it's only a streaming device: it does AirPlay and Bluetooth. And it has really great sound. The only reason it's boxed is because it has a strong plastic smell, and that bothers my asthma. (I should sell it, in fact.) I currently use a Sonos 5 in my bedroom, connected to an AirPort Express, and I'd rather have an AirPlay device to not need the AirPort Express there.

The plastic smell won't go as long as it's boxed (I know you know that!) but isn't there somewhere you can leave it exposed to the air for a week or 2?

 

I looked at the Sonos stuff but things like the Piccolo are much better value IMO, and even more so because they use your existing network.

[kirkmc]

I've left it exposed for a year. Alas, it's still giving off an evil smell.

 

I don't know the Piccolo; and Google's turning up too many hits in Italian. Link? The only reason I use a Sonos speaker is because the company sent me a bunch of their stuff some time ago. I have several other speakers that I don't use; but I use the Play 5 because it's stereo, and it has very good sound.

[Otto Nikolaus]

I've left it exposed for a year. Alas, it's still giving off an evil smell.

 

I don't know the Piccolo; and Google's turning up too many hits in Italian. Link? The only reason I use a Sonos speaker is because the company sent me a bunch of their stuff some time ago. I have several other speakers that I don't use; but I use the Play 5 because it's stereo, and it has very good sound.

Is that the "new smell" we usually like or something less pleasant?

 

I've mentioned the Piccolo elsewhere. It's Denon's update on the classic micro system. http://www.denon.co.uk/uk/product/compactsystems/networkmusicsystems/ceolpiccolon4 Ours is 2 years old so it might differ slightly. We already had speakers so we didn't buy the matching ones. It has no FM radio or CD player but does internet radio, pull streaming, and push streaming (AirPlay), and has direct inputs for RCA and 3.5 mm analogue, Toslink, USB, and iPhone Dock (old type, not Lightning, although I think you can get adapters). You can control it from its remote or a smartphone app. The sound is probably the best for the money too (~£250).

[kirkmc]

Yes, the "new smell" of volatile organic compounds.

 

Ah, the Denon, yes. They have long made those compact systems. I'm actually tempted to get something like that for the bedroom. I'm planning to enlarge my living room TV, and move my existing TV into the bedroom (I've never had a TV in a bedroom before), and I'll want some sort of decent sound system. I have a pair of bookshelf speakers I'm not using, and that would be a perfect fit.

 

Denon has just announced this:

 

http://www.denon.co.uk/uk/product/bluetooth/amplifiers/pma50

 

I was thinking of connecting an Apple TV to that, to stream to (when I get the new Apple TV, I'll have the 3rd gen that I won't be needing in the living room any more). Since I only use iTunes, I don't need the pull streaming. Though to be honest, that's a bit expensive for what I want.

 

I see there's a newer version of what you have:

 

http://www.denon.co.uk/UK/product/CompactSystems/NetworkMusicSystems/ceoln9

 

That would probably even be better than my plans, since it has AirPlay built in.

[Otto Nikolaus]

Yes, the "new smell" of volatile organic compounds.

 

Ah, the Denon, yes. They have long made those compact systems. I'm actually tempted to get something like that for the bedroom. I'm planning to enlarge my living room TV, and move my existing TV into the bedroom (I've never had a TV in a bedroom before), and I'll want some sort of decent sound system. I have a pair of bookshelf speakers I'm not using, and that would be a perfect fit.

 

Denon has just announced this:

 

http://www.denon.co.uk/uk/product/bluetooth/amplifiers/pma50

 

I was thinking of connecting an Apple TV to that, to stream to (when I get the new Apple TV, I'll have the 3rd gen that I won't be needing in the living room any more). Since I only use iTunes, I don't need the pull streaming. Though to be honest, that's a bit expensive for what I want.

 

I see there's a newer version of what you have:

 

http://www.denon.co.uk/UK/product/CompactSystems/NetworkMusicSystems/ceoln9

 

That would probably even be better than my plans, since it has AirPlay built in.

Ours is actually the DRA-N5 (in black). I was baffled by its replacement having a lower model number (N4) until I saw that it is less powerful (40W instead of 65W, both into 4Ω). Before that we had a Denon UD-M30. My brother was impressed by it and got one too. Unfortunately the CD drive in his failed (well out of warranty) so I gave him mine and bought the N5. This fitted in perfectly with our music now being on a NAS.

 

The PMA50 doesn't have any networking other that Bluetooth, as you've noticed.

 

No, the N9 does not replace the N5. It is essentially the N4/N5 plus a CD drive and FM radio and costs around £100 more. Really, I think the N4/N5 is perfect for a second system where you have some sort of computerised music library. It even plays Apple Lossless. I see that the N4 is £50 cheaper than the N5.

[Larry Croft]

I think it is *assumed* that AirPlay in practice is used only over Wi-Fi, because just about everyone with a home network also has Wi-Fi, but as you will find in the 2 previous posts, it *does* work over ethernet. This is only logical, as it's just a different physical medium (Network Layer 1) for the same data.

 

You've got quite a setup there and I'm struggling to visualise it all. Must have been some wiring job.

 

When you say "stream iTunes", I take it you mean that you are using AirPlay? Can't you simply go into the settings of any ATV and switch off Wi-Fi (actually I would expect that to happen automatically when an ethernet cable is connected, but that's just my guess). But does it matter? AirPlay is surely sending the same data either way, and 11n or 11ac Wi-Fi is plenty fast enough for music. The remaining issue is: what does AirPlay do to the music signal? It looks like all audio is sent as ALAC at 44.1 kHz, 2-channel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirPlay. Is that what you meant by EXACT ROUTE? This rules out hi-res (> CD quality) from the start, although iTunes itself does support up to 96x24. If you want to play hi-res you will need a good streamer that "pulls" the audio from your library, probably via a DLNA server app, with a good enough DAC to make the best of it, and then probably better speakers and amps (in a dedicated system).

 

 

Yes Otto i use Airplay from iTunes on my iMac as my music library. I also have an iPhone 5s, an iPad mini, and a new macbook 15 inch that are part of my iTunes match. The reason i use the iMac for my main library is i have ripped (bit perfect) all my CD's to it (ALAC) Since i now also have Apple Music and have purchased a few AAC files from the iTunes store over the years my iMac library has my redbook CD files (16/44) along with the AAC files (in and out of the cloud) My other devices only have the copied AAC files provided by the iTunes Match. I use the remote app on them to control my music when i am home. Of course when i am out and about i use the iPad or phone & their respective libraries and either my B&W P5s or one of my airplay speakers.

 

I do believe that IF an active ethernet cable is attached to the ATV's it defaults to them. HOWEVER i am not sure that my Airplay is BEING TRANSMITTED via ethernet cable or via wireless. The whole reason i switched to WIRED CONNECTIONS through out my house is because several years ago my music would be interrupted and "drop out" as the verbiage goes. Now that i have wired the entire home (with the aid of a Netgear gigabit switch) i have NO DROPOUTS. Synchronizing was never a problem wireless or wired for my 7 systems. I can do a little experiment and find out IF in fact my ATV's are utilizing the cables by removing them during play. Or as you suggest going into the options and turning off the wifi.

 

Otto since iTunes IS CAPABLE of 24/96 i was hoping i could eliminate my ATV's (for music that is) and stream via my ethernet network/ cabling to some sort of "devices" capable of receiving the music file via my ethernet network/cables then transferring it to my AV Receivers. I assume from what i have read that Airplay is limited to 16/44. So is there another "equivalent" to Airplay that will allow higher resolution files to be sent through my network? My network consists of an Arris cable modem, the newest Airport Extreme, a Netgear Gigabit switch and of course the ATV's and one Airport Express (newest model). Would i still be able to use my Airport Extreme as my router? And what type of "converter" would i need at the end(s) to receive a CAT 6 cable input then go out to my AV receivers? (All capable of 24/192 and all have digital inputs) I am still sold on the idea of NOT making this the priority (Kirk's advice) and pursuing upgrading my speakers. However i would like to know what i could do (if anything) to play higher resolution files than i am playing now while trying to stick to as much of the Apple architecture as possible. I derive a great deal of value and satisfaction from the Apple architecture overall. I have been working with computers since 1975 and Apple's have far and away been superior for my applications. Finally my ears are no where near as sensitive as most "audiophiles" so this pursuit of higher definition music files may be a fools errand . However like i said...i want to educate myself a little further in this subject. Thank you for taking time to help me. Kirk's site has already helped me tremendously. Sincerely Larry

[kirkmc]

The N9 has 65 watts, compared to 40; and it has a radio and CD drive. I ordered it yesterday; it'll be here later, and I'll write about it after I've had it for a while.

[Otto Nikolaus]

The N9 has 65 watts, compared to 40; and it has a radio and CD drive. I ordered it yesterday; it'll be here later, and I'll write about it after I've had it for a while.

Yes, and if you need those, it is an equally good buy. It's strange that the N5 (65W) was replaced by the N4 with 4oW, but I suspect Denon just wanted to reach a lower price point. I think you will be pleased with it. Don't forget that there's a Denon Remote app for iOS and Android too. Also, I would download the manual in PDF form.

[kirkmc]

I already downloaded the (extremely long) manual. And, yes, there's an app, but it looks pretty clunky. Do you use it?

 

As for the wattage, 40W is still decent, but I assume that most people buying this use it in a small enough space that it's not a problem. I wish I had known about this device when I replaced my office system last year. I would have bought this, as it's small, and does pretty much everything I need. In my office, I have a Denon amp and CD player; together they cost just a bit more than the N9, but the amp is only 50W. (However, it does have two speaker zones, which is a feature I wanted.)

[Otto Nikolaus]

Yes Otto i use Airplay from iTunes on my iMac as my music library. I also have an iPhone 5s, an iPad mini, and a new macbook 15 inch that are part of my iTunes match. The reason i use the iMac for my main library is i have ripped (bit perfect) all my CD's to it (ALAC) Since i now also have Apple Music and have purchased a few AAC files from the iTunes store over the years my iMac library has my redbook CD files (16/44) along with the AAC files (in and out of the cloud) My other devices only have the copied AAC files provided by the iTunes Match. I use the remote app on them to control my music when i am home. Of course when i am out and about i use the iPad or phone & their respective libraries and either my B&W P5s or one of my airplay speakers.

 

I do believe that IF an active ethernet cable is attached to the ATV's it defaults to them. HOWEVER i am not sure that my Airplay is BEING TRANSMITTED via ethernet cable or via wireless. The whole reason i switched to WIRED CONNECTIONS through out my house is because several years ago my music would be interrupted and "drop out" as the verbiage goes. Now that i have wired the entire home (with the aid of a Netgear gigabit switch) i have NO DROPOUTS. Synchronizing was never a problem wireless or wired for my 7 systems. I can do a little experiment and find out IF in fact my ATV's are utilizing the cables by removing them during play. Or as you suggest going into the options and turning off the wifi.

 

Otto since iTunes IS CAPABLE of 24/96 i was hoping i could eliminate my ATV's (for music that is) and stream via my ethernet network/ cabling to some sort of "devices" capable of receiving the music file via my ethernet network/cables then transferring it to my AV Receivers. I assume from what i have read that Airplay is limited to 16/44. So is there another "equivalent" to Airplay that will allow higher resolution files to be sent through my network? My network consists of an Arris cable modem, the newest Airport Extreme, a Netgear Gigabit switch and of course the ATV's and one Airport Express (newest model). Would i still be able to use my Airport Extreme as my router? And what type of "converter" would i need at the end(s) to receive a CAT 6 cable input then go out to my AV receivers? (All capable of 24/192 and all have digital inputs) I am still sold on the idea of NOT making this the priority (Kirk's advice) and pursuing upgrading my speakers. However i would like to know what i could do (if anything) to play higher resolution files than i am playing now while trying to stick to as much of the Apple architecture as possible. I derive a great deal of value and satisfaction from the Apple architecture overall. I have been working with computers since 1975 and Apple's have far and away been superior for my applications. Finally my ears are no where near as sensitive as most "audiophiles" so this pursuit of higher definition music files may be a fools errand . However like i said...i want to educate myself a little further in this subject. Thank you for taking time to help me. Kirk's site has already helped me tremendously. Sincerely Larry

Larry, as I said elsewhere, high end streamer makers like Linn and Naim recommend ethernet, not Wi-Fi, and Linn don't even give you a built-in Wi-Fi option. This must be for reliability, not bandwidth, as current Wi-Fi is easily fast enough for audio, even hi-res, and it seems that you have found this yourself.

 

AirPlay is a form of "push" streaming. I'm not aware of any push-streaming system that allows hi-res. There is no issue with any of your network hardware: it's AirPlay that limits you to Red Book quality and the ATV has its own limitations (48k, I think) anyway. I hope I'm wrong but I think the only way you can play hi-res is with a "pull" streamer. There are lots of products that do that. Cost no object, I would get a Linn DSM but there are many others, such as Pioneer and Sony. Another option would be to separate the networking and DAC/audio functions. Something like a DroidPlayer or Squeezebox can pull the music from your library and pass it on to an external DAC (or amp with built-in DAC), but I don't know if this would be as good as a proper hi-fi streamer. Since the demise of our ATV I've been using a DroidPlayer to stream from our NAS to the main Linn system and I have to say that even using the DP's 3.5 mm analogue output it sounds not bad at all (for £60!). I only have a couple of hi-res tracks (free samples from Linn) but I'll have to give them a try.