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Pacific Microsonics Model Two


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"... hope you don't mind a little friendly repartee"

 

Not at all Clay.

 

It's probably a good note on which to to end this thread.

 

I've enjoyed sharing my passion for this truly special piece of kit. Thanks to everyone who's taken the time to engage in the 'repartee'.

 

Mani.

 

Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs

Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers

Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro

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  • 4 months later...

There's not really a going rate for the PM2. Most sources of used PM2s have dried up. You usually have to know someone to pick one up when it becomes available. I know of about 15 that have been purchased in the last year or so, but all were handled in very tight transactions. The buyers and sellers had great relationships and good colleagues had the right of first refusal. Almost nobody refuses the opportunity to purchase a Model Two.

 

On the open market a Model Two will go for whatever someone is willing to pay. I know that sounds obvious but it's the truth and can drive the price sky high since demand far outweighs an nearly nonexistent supply.

 

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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Here is one of the test results from my Model Two, courtesy of Dave Peck.

 

Here is what Dave has to say about this test:

 

"ADC MULTISINE TEST – this subjects the converter to a ‘torture test’ signal consisting of several sine waves clustered in the very highest frequencies, which can cause most converters to produce lots of intermodulation distortion. The big vertical black band just below 20kHz is the cluster of sine waves. On some converters, you’ll also see lots of big distortion peaks in the graph located at lower frequencies, but you can see in this graph that nothing rises above -130dBFS."

 

Cheers,

Mani.

 

Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs

Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers

Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro

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  • 3 months later...

Just came across this post from astrotoy on 'whatsthebestforum.com' that some of you may be interested in:

 

A ADDAC and Server for My Vinyl

 

Last year in June I attended the Computer Audiophile Symposium in Berkeley to see what was the state of the art in consumer digital and to see a demo of the new Amarra system which could rip vinyl into hirez digital. As you can see from my profile, I have a very large collection of classical vinyl (about 15K records in all) and tapes (about 600 in total). I want to be able to pass this on to future generations in a very high quality, but easy to access and play format. This led me to an almost year long quest for a system to do that and also to play the various digital sources that I have and will acquire. These include about 1200 CD's that I have already ripped into wav files, and the hirez Reference Recording master files (176/24), hirez (96/24 and 192/24) files from the High Definition Tape Tracks, the Boston Symphony 96/24 flac and aiff files, HD Tracks and other hirez digital files. I engaged Tim Marutani, a local SF Bay Area audio consultant (Tim was a major sponsor of the CA Symposium) to guide me on this quest which is almost complete. On the way, Tim engaged two mastering engineers whom I knew from their involvement with the Tape Project, Paul Stubblebine and Mike Romonowski to help this process. He also introduced me to Art Kelm, a consultant who specializes in designing and modifying electrical systems for the lowest possible noise.

 

The first major effort came in the fall, when Art, working with a local electrician, created a new power supply for my system, starting with rewiring from the box to my system, with a new ground (literally pounded into the ground outside my home) and a massive box to isolate the electrical connections. He also provided me with two of the longest power strips I had ever seen - 24 outlets on each. One for all my analogue connections and the other for all my digital. The biggest component in terms of power consumption, the Velodyne DD-18 powered sub was connected directly into the box. The result of this is that my system is now dead quiet. With my 103 db sensitive Avantgarde Duos, all I hear with my ear up to the horn is a very quiet tube rush from the amp and preamp. There is absolutely no hum. Art measures everything and the potential from system to ground is over 10 times lower than before he started. What a difference. Art's company is called Ground One. Not cheap, but a very fine result.

 

The next step has been to identify the best sounding ADDAC (one that both converts analogue to digital and plays back digital to analogue). It took quite a while for Tim to assemble everything together - the universe of the top quality ADDAC's has had some new entries in the past year and each one has either unique or several combinations of computer, software and sound card. Finally, in early May (about 3 weeks ago) Tim assembled at my home 5 different ADDAC's, three different computers with two different sound cards and three different software packages. The ADDACs were the MSB, JCF (limited production recommended by Doug Sax), Amarra 4, Sphynx (aka Digital Audio Denmark) and for reference, the 10 year old Pacific Microsonics Model Two (a professional unit developed by Keith Johnson of Reference Records and Spectrum Audio and others and still used today by many of the top recording and mastering engineers). Tim also brought along 3 different computers to use. A Mac G5 running on Tiger with Lynx AES Card and Sound Blade Software, a Zalman PC with a Mykerinos Card and Pyramix software, and another Mac G5 running Leopard or Snow Leopard with Lynx card and Pure Vinyl software. Tim also brought along a Berkeley Audio Alpha DAC for playback only in addition to the Model Two which was used for recording and playback. We captured three different vinyl selections, all at 192/24, with each ADDAC and with most we used differnt combinations of computer/sfotware and sound card. Paul Stubblebine was the person leading the capture. One of the three vinyl was a lacquer that Paul cut specifically for the test, from a master digital file of a Reference Recording that Paul had mastered. Another was the Famous Blue Raincoat cut from the 45 rpm version of the album and the beginning of the 1950's Decca recording of Espana. We used the Speakers Corner reissue, since we had to use RIAA EQ on all the vinyl. Tim brought a Boulder phono pre to use so we would have a balanced output required by all the ADDAC's. Also attending the session were Chris Connaker, editor of Computer Audiophile - who will be writing up his impressions of the two days and Maier Shadi, an audio dealer from LA. This kind of comparison is not trivial to set up or to execute. So it took much of one day to bring the equipment in and test that everything was working. The second day was spent in doing the actual recording. Even after setting up and testing the first day, there were various issues with hardware, cables, drivers that took a lot of time to sort out. So I now have sympathy with reviewers who get criticized for not trying this or that combination. Not easy to do.

 

Bottom line so far:

ADDAC of Choice:

What is clear is that hands down, no questions, the best ADDAC by far was the Pacific Microsonics Model Two. The bad news - there were only about 150 of these made and many of the critical parts are no longer manufactured. Also most of the 150 are in the hands of recording and mastering engineers - who use multiple units for multichannerl recording and mastering. You will see in Keith Johnson's notes in his Reference Recording HRx files that he uses 4 Model Twos (I believe for eight mic channels of input) on one of his recordings. So the Model Two's are as scarce as hen's teeth. The great news (for me) is that Tim was able to locate a Model Two, which now sits in my system. We will be listening to the playback files some more to determine what a second choice would be.

 

BTW, for playback comparing the Model Two to the Berkeley Alpha DAC (interestly the Berkeley folks are mostly the same people that developed the Model Two), the Berkeley acquitted itself very well, but was definitely a notch below the Model Two in quality. For my daughter and son-in-law who would be playing back only, the Berkeley Alpha DAC is probably what I would get for them.

 

Full post here: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?646-A-ADDAC-and-Server-for-My-Vinyl

 

Mani.

 

 

 

Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs

Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers

Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro

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Mani,

I am sure these are top notch dacs. The pacific Microsonics converters are well known, and Spectral builds great electronics.

How are you feeding the bits into it? I suspect AES, but checking. FireWire, then USB are what more recent converters are using.

A Model Two with a FW800 port would really be something.

 

 

George

 

 

2012 Mac Mini, i5 - 2.5 GHz, 16 GB RAM. SSD,  PM/PV software, Focusrite Clarett 4Pre 4 channel interface. Daysequerra M4.0X Broadcast monitor., My_Ref Evolution rev a , Klipsch La Scala II, Blue Sky Sub 12

Clarett used as ADC for vinyl rips.

Corning Optical Thunderbolt cable used to connect computer to 4Pre. Dac fed by iFi iPower and Noise Trapper isolation transformer. 

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"How are you feeding the bits into it?"

 

I use either a Weiss AFI1 (firewire) or an RME AES-32 (PCI). I would love to get hold of the Mykerinos/Pyramix combo... saving my pennies as we speak.

 

"A Model Two with a FW800 port would really be something."

 

Yes, but only if the FW800 (or indeed FW400) could be totally electrically isolated from the computer. I'm not aware of any such system, though I'm sure one must exist somewhere.

 

Mani.

 

Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs

Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers

Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro

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  • 8 months later...

Although I have been a member of the group, I don't participate much. I saw that my long post with the What's Best Forum was posted last year. I wanted to give you an update on the progress of my project. In addition to the Model Two, I settled on the Merging Technologies Pyramix 7 software with their Mykerinos card feeding the Model Two after a several month comparison with Sound Blade - Amarra on a Mac G5 and Lynx card. The Model Two needs a dual wire feed. For vinyl ripping, I have a custom tube phono pre from Bottlehead with variable EQ for my pre RIAA EMI and Decca recordings. For post processing (declick and denoise) I am using Izotope RX2, which amazingly for me removes all clicks and pops with no effect on the music! It is a pro software, but costs only $349, compared with over 10 times as much for the competitor Cedar and Algorhythmics. So far I have completed about 850 records and tapes, close to 10% of my projected total of 9000-10000. Some of my files are going to be featured at the upcoming California Audio Show in mid July, south of SF. They will be in Tim Marutani's display in the grand ballroom. The digital set up is identical to mine - but the playback electronics are different (and better than mine!) Magico Q5's powered by Constellation electronics. Tim will also have some analogue sources.

 

 

Larry Toy (aka astrotoy)

 

Analog-VPIClas3,3DArm,LyraSkala+MiyajimaZeromono,Herron VTPH2APhono,2AmpexATR-102+MerrillTridentMaster TapePreamp

Dig Rip-Pyramix,IzotopeRX3Adv,MykerinosCard,PacificMicrosonicsModel2; Dig Play-Lampi Horizon, mch NADAC, Roon-HQPlayer,Oppo105

Electronics-DoshiPre,CJ MET1mchPre,Cary2A3monoamps; Speakers-AvantgardeDuosLR,3SolosC,LR,RR

Other-2x512EngineerMarutaniSymmetrical Power+Cables Music-1.8KR2Rtapes,1.5KCD's,500SACDs,50+TBripped files

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  • 3 months later...

The UPS driver has just collected it my Model Two to take it to its new owner.

 

Why did I sell it? Well, two reasons really:

 

1) Firsly, I now have a DAC that to my ears sounds substantially better than the Model Two's DAC section.

 

2) The Model Two's ADC is easily the best I've ever heard, especially when set to 24/192. But I really don't have much worth recording! Yes, I have ~5000 vinyl LPs, but you know what, I actually like going through the whole 'vinyl ritual' when I'm listening to them. Right now, I don't really have the time or inclination to start digitizing them all.

 

For these two reasons, the Model Two has pretty much remained switched off for the last 6 months or so, and hence the reason for selling it.

 

But I stand by every last word that I've ever written about the Model Two. It really is a special piece of kit.

 

Mani.

 

Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs

Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers

Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro

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"I now have a DAC that to my ears sounds substantially better than the Model Two's DAC section."

 

Please fill in the blank

 

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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...is in his sig. :)

 

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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It's probably the "now" that's confusing here. The DAC that I 'now' have is actually the same DAC I've had for the last 10 months (albeit upgraded to full async-USB 24/768 capability only a month or so ago). It's the DAC in my signature - the Phasure NOS1. Simply stunning, and yes, substantially better than the DAC section of the Model Two. I've found the performance of the NOS1 has improved even further since I installed a SOtM USB card.

 

I believe the Model Two uses two UltraAnalog DAC chips - great in their day, but no match for the eight (yes, eight!) PCM1704U-K DAC chips in the NOS1.

 

Mani.

 

Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs

Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers

Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro

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eight (yes, eight!) PCM1704U-K DAC chips

 

Just at a random glance on the Net, even if Peter bought his DAC chips in lots of 500(!), which I rather doubt, that's around US$300 per unit in DAC chips alone.

 

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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He mentioned in his introduction of the Phasure that he has a huge supply of 1704 chips. Good investment.

 

George

 

 

2012 Mac Mini, i5 - 2.5 GHz, 16 GB RAM. SSD,  PM/PV software, Focusrite Clarett 4Pre 4 channel interface. Daysequerra M4.0X Broadcast monitor., My_Ref Evolution rev a , Klipsch La Scala II, Blue Sky Sub 12

Clarett used as ADC for vinyl rips.

Corning Optical Thunderbolt cable used to connect computer to 4Pre. Dac fed by iFi iPower and Noise Trapper isolation transformer. 

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He mentioned in his introduction of the Phasure that he has a huge supply of 1704 chips. Good investment.

 

George

 

 

2012 Mac Mini, i5 - 2.5 GHz, 16 GB RAM. SSD,  PM/PV software, Focusrite Clarett 4Pre 4 channel interface. Daysequerra M4.0X Broadcast monitor., My_Ref Evolution rev a , Klipsch La Scala II, Blue Sky Sub 12

Clarett used as ADC for vinyl rips.

Corning Optical Thunderbolt cable used to connect computer to 4Pre. Dac fed by iFi iPower and Noise Trapper isolation transformer. 

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I may be totally wrong here, but I recall reading somewhere that Peter invested close to $1million in parts alone for the Phasure NOS1. I'm certain he bought more than 500 PCM1704U-Ks.

 

And some people have the audacity to call his a DIY outfit!

 

Mani

 

Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs

Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers

Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro

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[H]e has a huge supply of 1704 chips. Good investment.

 

It is if he sells enough NOS1s. :-)

 

 

 

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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I'm certain he bought more than 500 PCM1704U-Ks.

 

So you're saying he should be able to give us a better discount. ;-)

 

In any event, I hope:

 

- your Model Two is going to a good and deserving home, and

 

- you enjoy your LPs.

 

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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"... enjoy your LPs"

 

Will do!

 

Cheers, Mani.

 

Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs

Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers

Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro

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  • 1 year later...
The UPS driver has just collected it my Model Two to take it to its new owner.

 

Yipee! The UPS driver has just delivered my Model Two back to me!!! I managed to persuade the guy to whom I sold my Model Two to return it to me. He managed to get a bunch of reels digitized beforehand, so everyone is happy.

 

For a number of reasons I won't go into here, I decided that I needed the Model Two for my vinyl digitization project. I intend to make two separate recordings of each album:

1. DSD128 - here I will use a Korg MR-1000 powered by a Paul Hynes linear PS

2. PCM 24/192 - here I will use the PM Model Two (master) to output 24/192 into a Tascam DV-RA1000HD (slave)

 

I'm not sure I ever managed to get the best out of the Model Two previously using the RME and Weiss AES interfaces I had at the time (and still have). I'm hoping the Tascam will prove an improvement in this regard. I think it might - I believe some pros are using the Tascam to capture the DSD output from a Grimm AD-1 with great results.

 

I thought I had laid this thread to rest. But I will now use it to share my thoughts on how the Model Two with PCM performs against the Korg with DSD. The Tascam can record in either DSD64 or PCM (up to 24/192). I'll use it as a sort of benchmark.

 

Mani.

Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs

Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers

Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro

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  • 3 months later...

Hello All. Somehow, I can't believe that this is my first post on the forum. Been here reading posts for many many years.

 

Maybe appropriate that my first is adding to this thread. I have a Model Two that is available. If anyone is interested, please contact me.

 

Keep up the great discussions and pushing the quality of digital audio onward and upward!

 

All the best,

 

Michael

MIchael Romanowski

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Hello All. Somehow, I can't believe that this is my first post on the forum. Been here reading posts for many many years.

 

Maybe appropriate that my first is adding to this thread. I have a Model Two that is available. If anyone is interested, please contact me.

 

Keep up the great discussions and pushing the quality of digital audio onward and upward!

 

All the best,

 

Michael

The correct way to approach this type of post would be to join Computer Audiophile (pay the subscription fee) and then you can post an advert in the classified section.

 

Eloise

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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