HD tracks

[ryan_d]

Just tried to download a couple of albums from HD tracks only to find out that it will only sell within the US......for a download site this is frankly ludicrous!!!!

 

Ryan

 

[bottlerocket]

Chris posted some comments on why US download sites do this. Must be frustrating....

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Guys - Here is a link to my post about downloads outside the US.

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Rhino-Records-Downloads#comment-32717

 

[ryan_d]

So why is it only the US that uses this approach.....?as has been pointed out, UK companies are able to find a solution to this, so I don't find solice in the excuses.

 

I actually contacted HD tracks about this some time ago, but it was obviously not important enough to warrant a response. Guess I'll just have to find a european based company and avoid US based firms.

 

Ryan

 

[David N]

I use the Pay Pal payment option not the credit card payment option to download from HD Tracks in Australia.

It seems that it is a security issue to accept credit card payments from customers without a US issued credit card.

Pay pay gives them a guarantee of payment from their customers living outside of the USA. I have been downloading from HD Tracks for over twelve months using the Pay Pal option. HD Tracks provide an excellent service and I highly recommend them, but you must use the Pay Pal payment

option if you live outside of the USA.

David N

 

[ryan_d]

Many thanks David.....I'll give this ago at some point. How did you find this out? THere does not seem to be any information regarding this on the website, although I have not looked that deeply.

 

All the best for the New Year

 

Ryan

 

[icebreaker]

And knowing how PayPal works...

 

But since I live in Canada when I encountered problems with a download (due to a flakey hard drive?) I couldn't get any customer service on the HD Tracks download. So I was out the money with no recourse.

 

[ryan_d]

Well I know how paypal works but it still sounds like HD tracks need to brush up on their customer services. The fact that you are paying for a download with no physical medium the cost is still high and poorly serviced.

 

Ryan

 

[bottlerocket]

singing my heart bleeds for you. Get over it man... or just don't buy from HD TRacks. I think they are great myself and getting more and more good music all the time.

 

[ryan_d]

"or just don't buy from HD TRacks."

 

A typical yank response.....If I'm ok then thats all that matters, but the above quote is probably the only sensible thing you come out with all year.

 

Ryan

 

 

 

[David N]

 

Credit card fraud is a serious problem for an international online business.

There is no guarantee of payment if a trader accepts a foreign credit card.

Major online traders such as Amazons do not accept credit card payment

from Australia.However they do offer an alternative payment method in Pay Pal.

Pay Pal gives both the seller and buyer a secure method of payment.

Maybe HD Tracks should state on the payment page that Pay Pal is the only payment method available for international

customers or maybe it is a loophole that foreign customers can exploit for now.

HD Tracks do offer a great service and I highly recommend them.

David N

 

 

[corrosiveideas]

I think that must be the issue. They must be using some small company to process payments. As far as I know all major credit card processing companies will accept all kinds of credit cards: WorldPay, 2CO, Authorise... you name it.

 

[Soundproof]

HD-Tracks have agreements with the music rights holders that limit the territory to which they can sell. Read their agreement.

 

By purchasing music from them in contravention of their terms, you are in breach of contract.

 

Q: I live in a country outside of the United States. Are there territory restrictions?

A: Yes, at this time, HDtracks only serves people residing in the United States.

 

Here's §11 from their Terms and Conditions:

 

11. Territory. The Digital Store is currently available only in the continental United States, and is not available in any other location. You agree not to use or attempt to use the Digital Store from outside of the available territory, and that HD may use technologies to verify your compliance.

 

You may actually risk prosecution should you choose to buy in contravention of their terms, though I doubt they'll prosecute. While HD-Tracks probably wouldn't pursue you, the music rights holders might, should they choose to. In their agreement with the rights holders, I'm fairly certain that there's a clause requiring HD-Tracks to inform them of any attempts to break the territorial restrictions. Depending upon how you paid for the tracks and how you represented your residence in the U.S. in order to purchase tracks, you might risk being denied entry to the U.S. upon Visa application for fraudulently representing yourself and your place of residence, for committing fraud and for breaking protection of copyright laws.

Worth thinking about.

 

https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=staticpage&pagename=terms_conditions

 

If HD-Tracks openly allowed downloads from outside the U.S., they would have to pay a lot more to the rights holders for the music they are offering.

 

[Richard Dale]

 

Depending upon how you paid for the tracks and how you represented your residence in the U.S. in order to purchase tracks, you might risk being denied entry to the U.S. upon Visa application for fraudulently representing yourself and your place of residence, for committing fraud and for breaking protection of copyright laws.

 

 

 

So here I am in Spain with my credit cards just waiting to be able to buy some interesting 96/24 tracks and I can't. If I try to, it seems I am considered to be a fraudster. And meanwhile these same record labels are pursuing a policy of suing people in Europe who exchange low resolution MP3s via peer to peer networks. Personally, I wouldn't touch MP3s with a barge pole as they fall a long way short of what I would regard as acceptable sound quality. Why don't the labels just allow MP3s to be given away in order to sell high resolution versions? Why are they so jaw droppingly useless - I just don't understand?

 

 

[Soundproof]

I find that the music industry has acted like fools when it comes to the opportunities presented by the digital media.

 

I think it's worth considering closely what the HD-Tracks user agreement states, and particularly paragraphs 15 and 16. There's little point in stating "I didn't know" afterwards. As we've seen, the music industry has been extremely eager to apply the law in ways that defy belief.

 

16. General Compliance with Laws. The Digital Store is controlled and operated by HDTracks.com in the state of New York . You agree to comply with all local, states, federal, and national laws, statutes, ordinances, and regulations that apply to your use of the Digital Store.

 

17. Enforcement of These Terms. HD reserves the right to take steps HD believes are reasonably necessary and appropriate to enforce and/ or verify compliance with any part of this Agreement (including but not limited to HD's right to cooperate with any legal process relating to your use of the Digital Store and/or Products, and/or third party claim that your use of the Digital Store and/or Products is unlawful and/or infringes such third party's rights.) You agree that HD has the right, without liability to you, to disclose any Registration Data and/ or Account information to law enforcement authorities, government officials, and/or any third party as HD believes is reasonably necessary or appropriate to enforce and/or verify compliance with any part of this Agreement (including but not limited to HD's right to cooperate with any legal process relating to your use of the Digital Store and/or Products, and/or a third party claim that your use of the Digital Store and/or Products is unlawful and/or infringes such third party's rights).

 

[BobH]

Too many of the former and not enough of the latter! I imagine, though, that the biggest hurdle to HD Tracks current business model is HD Tracks. If they saw a market they considered to be significant, I'm sure they'd go for it.

 

The shame in all of this is that it is the musicians that lose out. But the traditional music industry model is just about dead on it's feet now, all that remains is a stubborn rear-guard action by the traditional lables. Hence the half-hearted attempts at stopping piracy.

 

I think the future holds a music industry much more centred round the artist and recording studio, with the traditional record companies either folding or adapting to the new dynamic. Recording studios and artists don't need the record companies for distribution anymore, they do need them for advertising. That's where I see the changes taking place.

 

When all this happens we will then see truly global distribution, via the Internet, of all formats and resolutions. At the moment we are still stuck in the old system of a carved up world, with separate deals negotiated for each slice.

 

Hopefully we'll live long enough to see the brave new world! But I'm not holding my breath!

 

[firedog]

Soundproof-

 

Wow, you read too many law books.

 

I guess you've never violated any rule or regulation of any type, and never even jaywalked. Do you read and religiously apply every condition of the EULA of every piece of software you've ever used? Even free ones? If you've strictly followed all the types of rules mentioned above, I feel sorry for you. If I'm wrong about you and you have violated some of the above, then you need to either stop preaching to others or apply your logic to your own life.

 

Other than that, here's why your post is alarmist silliness:

 

I'm not risking any prosecution - who's going to prosecute me? Authorities where I live aren't going to enforce US statutes like this one.

 

And I'm sure the authorities everywhere are just waiting to prosecute someone who PAID for a download. The record industry has sued downloaders who didn't pay for downloads. You think they are going to start prosecuting people who actually pay for downloads?

 

Visa - not relevant. I'm a US citizen and don't need a visa to visit the US.

 

I paid for the Tracks, royalties were paid, and it's not illegal where I live.

 

If HD Tracks was truly interested in enforcing their rules, they'd apply a simple IP sniffer to determine if the sale was from the US. Other sites do. Since they apparently take no real measures to ensure that they are preventing downloads outside the US, I think the only one liable to be prosecuted is HD Tracks, not me. They're the ones who took money for an "illegal" action on their web site.

 

Calm down a bit - no one needs alarmist posts like yours

 

[firedog]

I've successfully downloaded from outside the US. Put in a US address (friend or relative) and your CC info. Or use paypal.

 

Unlike some sites, they apparently don't check your IP and don't actually have a way of knowing where you are downloading from.

 

Works for me

 

Edit: I'm guessing PayPal works because with Paypal the sale is technically in the US, and this avoids the various "outside the US" legal issues involved.

 

[Soundproof]

Hey, dial back on the outrage, kiddo.

 

The thread is about why HD-Tracks isn't making files available for non-residents of the U.S. I showed to the applicable parts of the user agreement which makes that very clear, and indicated a few of the possibly unfortunate consequences of same.

As I also wrote, I doubted HD-Tracks itself would take action, but they have suitably covered themselves, and I bet with the help of quite a few lawyers.

 

FYI, and you should find it interesting. Any foreigner wishing to visit the U.S. will be the subject of an automatic credit history check. This check is based not only upon the credit card account with which the trip was booked (all airlines immediately notify U.S. authorities of all trips booked, including cc-information), but also includes all other available credit histories connected with that person (as well as lots of other information.)

Which means that you could suddenly find yourself being asked about how/why you have misrepresented yourself as a resident of the U.S, by the INS.

 

Nothing alarmist about this. Just a statement of fact - though fortunately, the powers that be usually spend their time hunting for bigger fish, and not small fry.

 

(And the fact that I know the law means I'm better at skirting it, not that I follow it to the letter ;-)

 

[RankStranger]

Anyway, absolutely no need to misrepresent your residency status. I did my first HD tracks transaction from Australia via Paypal without ever being asked where I lived. I didn't even find out about the restriction before I read it on some other website because I didn't try to use my credit card. Not saying that that made it more or less legal, just that their not trying too hard.

 

RS

 

[Ksommer]

Like many in Canada, would love to take advatange of HD Tracks great High Res selection, but am unable to. Having been on their site several times, I am unsure how you would set up payment through Paypal. All I see is that for payment option I am required to enter my credit card information. Am I missing something?

 

Ksommer

 

[alcarp]

There is an option to pay with PayPal when you reach the checkout screen. It is below the arrow that says "Continue".

 

[Munchoba]

Also from Canada but getting HD Tracks simply by giving them a US address.

I believe, in my case, I Googled a medical clinic in Albany, New York.

Why Albany?

The TV was on NBC when I was joining HD Tracks and the NY capital came up.

 

Like it's been said... if they were werious about getting 'us forigners' out, they's block our IP.

 

cheers