Beyond stereo?

[mav52]

46 minutes ago, STC said:

 

That's misleading. The 54k system meant for many listeners in the room.  

 

From what I read "" The price (including infrared tracking cameras, microphones, and a dedicated iPad controller) is $54,000. ".     So how does the system support more than one listener. The setup involves " The first step in the process involved having small microphones inserted into a persons ears after which the Bacch system runs some sweep tones to measure your ears in three locations, center, right and left, and then it loads that data into the program saved as a unique profile.",

 

so what you are noting is this system can handle multiple listeners at the same time and track all head movements ? 

[mav52]

9 minutes ago, AJ Soundfield said:

Right, aka head tracking, mentioned numerous times previously. Is that something you would desire?

You listen only solo?

 Sure AJ, you give me $54k and I will listen solo to my hearts content and I will even use your speakers. .

[AJ Soundfield]

3 minutes ago, mav52 said:

 Sure AJ, you give me $54k and I will listen solo to my hearts content and I will even use your speakers. .

You give me $54k and I wont stick anything in your ears

[STC]

AJ, I asked what binaural system you listened to and you didn't answer. 

 

I am not interested in listening far away from my sweet spot. So I am not interested in such speakers even though my SoundLab is said to be wide dispersion. I am interested to improve the sound at my sweet spot. I still couldn't trace the origin of the chart which clearly showed any other position away from the sweet spot is a compromise. A link would be useful. A three dB difference is still a difference. 

 

If you think it is BS then I have nothing else to add because you do not know what 3D sound is. 

[AJ Soundfield]

7 minutes ago, STC said:

I am am not interested in listening far away from my sweet spot.

Great, I am. As are many others. Again, if sticking stuff in ears, sitting alone centered in an iso-ward, etc. is your thing, great, knock yourself out with BACCH and XTC whatever. It isn't mine.

 

7 minutes ago, STC said:

If you think it is BS

I don't think its BS, it is BS, because stereo recording mic methods vary wildly, just like any form of binaural w/ crosstalk cancel attempting to reproduce them does. That's what you confirmed by evading.

[STC]

13 minutes ago, STC said:

AJ, I asked what binaural system you listened to and you didn't answer. 

 

Still no answer. 

 

 

[STC]

23 minutes ago, AJ Soundfield said:

Great, I am. As are many others. Again, if sticking stuff in ears, sitting alone centered in an iso-ward, etc. is your thing, great, knock yourself out with BACCH and XTC whatever. It isn't mine.

 

I don't think its BS, it is BS, because stereo recording mic methods vary wildly, just like any form of binaural w/ crosstalk cancel attempting to reproduce them does. That's what you confirmed by evading.

 

Not evading but I thought it was too obvious that if one cannot distinguish between good and bad recordings than what difference it would make when they listen in mono or stereo or Ambiophonics or multi channel or BACCH. If the 3D information is there then you get 3D, if it only got two monos then the sound is going come from the speaker. Pseudo stereo is the worst because sometimes the separation is at the extreme left and right. In that case, adjust the delay and reduce the soundstage. And what stuff you need to stick to your ears?  Never came across such system.  

 

You the one is evading answering what binaural system that you listened to. 

[AJ Soundfield]

1 hour ago, STC said:

 

Not evading

Except you are and the fact is that attempts of binaural with crosstalk cancel playing stereo recordings date back to Polk SDS (heard), Carver Sonic Holography (heard), DIY room center divided (heard) and many true binaural recording via headphone. The fact remains that with stereo recordings, binaural with crosstalk cancel is highly variable, which is exactly why no more Polk SDA, Carver holography, etc, etc.

It appeals to a tiny vocal fringe who thinks it's the only way, but that's irrelevant to 99.99% of stereo recordings, that aren't binaural. I'm ok with them sitting alone in their iso-wards, but not me.

Your 20+ speakers method would sell me lots of speakers, but unfortunately that fringe market is small.

So I'm ok with other methods, including ones shown superior:

http://www.desena.org/multichannel/Ambisonics_2_Int_Symp_2010.pdf

Your religious fervor about binaural with crosstalk cancel confines you to prothlesizing about the one that suits your iso needs, but fails to account for the preferences of others who don't desire solo spot iso-ward experiences. 

[AJ Soundfield]

3 hours ago, AJ Soundfield said:

How many wide stereo + diffuse decorrelated independent driven indirect radiation fronts + 2 Logic7 rears have you heard?

Still no answer. 

[gmgraves]

12 hours ago, semente said:

 

 

@gmgraves only listens to "classical", which also makes for over 90% of what I listen to.

I also attend live recitals on a weekly basis.

 

 

Actually, That's not exactly accurate! I mostly listen to classical music, but I am also a fan of Celtic/American folk music, bluegrass (instrumental only), film soundtracks (Rozsa, Steiner, Tiomkin, Elmer Bernstein, John Barry, etc.) as well as "traditional" jazz (Getz, Davis, Brubeck, and at least a hundred more). I even have a "Beach Boys" CD (but that's it for "rock"). 

[AJ Soundfield]

21 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

 

Actually, That's not exactly accurate! I mostly listen to classical music, but I am also a fan of Celtic/American folk music, bluegrass (instrumental only), film soundtracks (Rozsa, Steiner, Tiomkin, Elmer Bernstein, John Barry, etc.) as well as "traditional" jazz (Getz, Davis, Brubeck, and at least a hundred more). I even have a "Beach Boys" CD (but that's it for "rock"). 

Me too, minus the Beach Boys.

Any chance of sharing the recordings you made so I can hear this stereo soundfield reconstruction rivaling MCH?

[AJ Soundfield]

Quote

I am sure you can nod, shake, move or turn your head with BACCH. 

Yeah...and not much more 

 

Different strokes for different folks I guess...

[STC]

4 hours ago, AJ Soundfield said:

Except you are and the fact is that attempts of binaural with crosstalk cancel playing stereo recordings date back to Polk SDS (heard), Carver Sonic Holography (heard), DIY room center divided (heard) and many true binaural recording via headphone. The fact remains that with stereo recordings, binaural with crosstalk cancel is highly variable, which is exactly why no more Polk SDA, Carver holography, etc, etc.

It appeals to a tiny vocal fringe who thinks it's the only way, but that's irrelevant to 99.99% of stereo recordings, that aren't binaural. I'm ok with them sitting alone in their iso-wards, but not me.

Your 20+ speakers method would sell me lots of speakers, but unfortunately that fringe market is small.

So I'm ok with other methods, including ones shown superior:

http://www.desena.org/multichannel/Ambisonics_2_Int_Symp_2010.pdf

Your religious fervor about binaural with crosstalk cancel confines you to prothlesizing about the one that suits your iso needs, but fails to account for the preferences of others who don't desire solo spot iso-ward experiences. 

 

That explains. Someone comparing XTC in an analogue era.

 

and still no answer what binaural system you listened to. 

[STC]

1 hour ago, AJ Soundfield said:

Yeah...and not much more 

 

Different strokes for different folks I guess...

 

How long is the video in the picture? Oh no, you are can see people moving in a still image! That is something I coulnt do.

[STC]

2 hours ago, AJ Soundfield said:

Still no answer. 

 

None.  But will look it up.

 

Can you answer now, what binaural system you listen to?

[STC]

6 hours ago, AJ Soundfield said:

You give me $54k and I wont stick anything in your ears

 

That is misleading. You don't stick any thing in your ears with BACCH except the first time when they calibrate the system for BACCH. Show me the link where you have stick something in the ears to listen to BACCH? Don't make up stories. Even though, I do not use BACCH, I don't stoop so low to attack a product by misinformation. But what would I know, I am not a seller.

[STC]

2 hours ago, AJ Soundfield said:

Yeah...and not much more 

 

Different strokes for different folks I guess...

 

still image can be misleading but not video. 

 

 

[STC]

AJ, since you are not answering the questions raised, it is difficult to see how wide dispersion and XTC is related. 

 

btw is this your speakers? If it so I don't see great soundscape there. 

 

 

 

 

 

[STC]

2 hours ago, STC said:

 

None.  But will look it up.

 

Can you answer now, what binaural system you listen to?

 

Correcting myself. Apparently, I hear them often in the car. And if that's  what Logic7 is about then it is a long way to go for  3D sound. Logic7 is about making stereo for multi channel is not 3D nor is wide dispersion speakers. 

[AJ Soundfield]

13 hours ago, STC said:

 

That explains. Someone comparing XTC in an analogue era.

Wrong:

Quote

The Johnston/Lam system is compared with a horizontal 2nd order Ambisonics. The B-Format signals are encoded via the Furse-Malham 2nd-order coefficients (FMH-Format) [10] and decoded using the “in-phase” coefficients. The CDP MultiChannel software toolkit available at [11] has been employed

It got beat, deal with it.

 

Quote

and still no answer what binaural system you listened to.

Still no reading comprehension obviously.

[AJ Soundfield]

13 hours ago, STC said:

 

How long is the video in the picture?

No, he is a Chinese gentleman iirc. What does he have to do with this??

 

Quote

That is something I coulnt do.

 

Right, that single line of 5 chairs says it all. I and most folks don't want that. But obviously a fervent fringe do.

Look, here I am with my assistant explaining to an audiophile why confined seating and room treatments isn't for everyone.

 

YMMV

[AJ Soundfield]

11 hours ago, STC said:

btw is this your speakers? If it so I don't see great soundscape there. 

Those aren't the droids we're looking for.

Once more, for those 99% stereo recordings:

 

For the fronts, something like these but not passive for tube amps, but fully active, with separate input driven rear 3x3 phased array, delayed, diffuse, decorrelated (see 3D right there), lots of DSP. No analogue era stuff.

[AJ Soundfield]

13 hours ago, STC said:

You don't stick any thing in your ears with BACCH

....except the first time when they calibrate the system for BACCH.

So you were for it before you were against it. Ok.

[AJ Soundfield]

10 hours ago, STC said:

Correcting myself. Apparently, I hear them often in the car. And if that's  what Logic7 is about then it is a long way to go for  3D sound.

Swing and a miss 

 

Quote

Logic7 is about making stereo for multi channel

Nope.

You probably can't get this, but the Logic7 isn't used for the fronts, just the surrounds. Fronts are "pure" unadulterated stereo. Well, sorta...

[Kal Rubinson]

Here's another, older view of an Ambiophonics demo at an audio show.  Ralph Glasgal presiding.