Allo Sparky USBridge

[luisma]

Thank you so much for the detailed explanation, very useful

 

[bassivus]

11 hours ago, JTS said:

@luisma I have a couple setups going as I have a home studio.

 

1) Home Setup: RoonCore Linux->LAN->Video Workstation-> Roon Player->HQPlayer->LAN->*USBridge NAA w Schiit Wyrd/Allo DigiOne NAA*->*USB/SPDIF*->HoloSpring->HeedObelisk MKIII->Harbeth P3ESR

 

*I have been switching between the two for testing purposes.

 

2) Studio: Same RoonCore Linux->LAN->Video Workstation-> Roon Player->HQPlayer->USB->Denafrips ARES->Schiit Freya (w Sylvania 6SN7GTB tubes)->Neumann KH120A actives.

 

In setup 1, I have found that the Allo DigiOne outperforms the Allo USBridge in detail, transients, bass, and stage size despite the lower sampling capabilities and only handling DSD64X DoP. The USBridge sounds dull and small in comparison to the Allo DigiONE to my ear on this system. In addition, I have been experiencing some USBBridge crashes when running higher rate (256X/512X) DSD. I am running the USBridge with the J28 jumper open and an ifi iPower Suppy + Stock PSU.

 

I am going to return the USBridge in favor of trying a Windows 10 based HQPlayer NAA/Roon endpoint. I have also tested a Windows 10 laptop in the system 1 chain with the signed Holo Audio ASIO Drivers and I prefer it the most.

 

I have purchased an inexpensive (<$200) ATOM based windows 10 mini PC to use as a Roon Endpoint/HQPlayer NAA. It has yet to arrive. I will run a comparison and follow up here.

Interesting findings! Thanks for sharing. Have you tried it without Schiit Wyrd?

[JTS]

@bassivus, yes. I tried it with and without the Schiit Wyrd. I preferred it with. I also tried the USBridge with a single power supply to the USBridge and J28 open (thin sound) vs. dual power supply and J28 open (thicker sound overall but muddy treble) 

[luisma]

@JTS  so in your opinion (and this is only a matter of preference I understand, some people may thing otherwise) the quality of audio of the USB bridge single powered or dual powered is not very impressive and possibly will be better to have a computer connected directly to a DAC bypassing the network stage? some others in this thread @hurka mentioned the bridge doesn't sound good but the sparky does. I just don't know how to use only the sparky if the USB output to DAC is on the bridge itself.

 

[JTS]

@luisma I will always be running that system through the network. It is not practical to have a beefy PC for HQplayer in that system, so I will always be running a machine as a network endpoint/bridge. It is interesting that people have preferred the sound of the Sparky USB ports on their own. I do not think they will run DSD, though - HQPlayer only allows DoP on those ports. 

 

I am testing a small windows PC as an HQPlayer NAA endpoint and will let you know how that goes. I suspect that the windows signed drivers for the Holo Spring sound better than the generic Linux USB audio driver. I will report back. It may take a while - the small PC I purchased is of questionable quality and I will likely exchange it for another.

[luisma]

On 11/2/2017 at 5:17 AM, hurka said:

eah! Sparky-iso regen-singxerF1-i2s Dac (feed 3 u.cap psu)

usbridge just crap.

So @hurka you removed the bridge and have a sparky naked connected to an iso regen and so on.....?

[tboooe]

1 hour ago, luisma said:

@JTS  so in your opinion (and this is only a matter of preference I understand, some people may thing otherwise) the quality of audio of the USB bridge single powered or dual powered is not very impressive and possibly will be better to have a computer connected directly to a DAC bypassing the network stage? some others in this thread @hurka mentioned the bridge doesn't sound good but the sparky does. I just don't know how to use only the sparky if the USB output to DAC is on the bridge itself.

 

I removed the USBridge from my system recently.  I don't think it's because the quality of the USBridge is bad.  It's more because it's effect on the music in my system is not what I prefer. In my system, the USBridge made the music sound flat and frankly boring.  The dynamics was reduced.  With the Windows based NAA and the Singxer driver, the music came back alive and exciting. This is of course just my preference in my system.  I am certain the USBridge is a quality device but as usual it comes down to system synergy and personal preference.

[luisma]

but your preference is valid, if you noticed any difference I'm pretty sure there was. Like I said some people prefer computer to DAC directly some others swear by putting the network and some physical space between them arguing the EMI/RFI from the computer affects.

 

I guess I have to do my own testing ....

 

the only missing piece which I heard enhances the sound is an USB reclocker / regen, different brands uptone, wyred4sound etc. seems they are using these to replace the bridge and they report better sound .... 

[bassivus]

10 minutes ago, luisma said:

but your preference is valid, if you noticed any difference I'm pretty sure there was. Like I said some people prefer computer to DAC directly some others swear by putting the network and some physical space between them arguing the EMI/RFI from the computer affects.

 

I guess I have to do my own testing ....

 

the only missing piece which I heard enhances the sound is an USB reclocker / regen, different brands uptone, wyred4sound etc. seems they are using these to replace the bridge and they report better sound .... 

I have tested USBridge to AYAII NOS 1541 DAC VS Computer USB. This DAC I use with SPDIF in my system since its usb is old technology and not very good. It relies to USB signal quality and crap signal brings with it degrades sound greatly.

USBridge won by a MILE!

[pjmcos]

Dear Allo,

 

I intermittently encounter a network stopage on my Volumio using USBRIDGE. Whenever I play track upon browsing a folder in my NAS it sometimes becomes unplayable (clicking *.flac several times).

 

Im using Onkyo A9000R builtin DAC as well as Marantz NA8005 DAC function via USB. NAS is 3 TB WD Cloud (dynamic IP)

My switch hub is 10/100 TP link. I don't use static IP adress. Can someone here advice what to do?

 

I always soft  reset the USBRIDGE device whenever I encounter this instability.

 

It always annoys me.

 

[zackthedog]

58 minutes ago, pjmcos said:

Dear Allo,

 

I intermittently encounter a network stopage on my Volumio using USBRIDGE. Whenever I play track upon browsing a folder in my NAS it sometimes becomes unplayable (clicking *.flac several times).

 

Im using Onkyo A9000R builtin DAC as well as Marantz NA8005 DAC function via USB. NAS is 3 TB WD Cloud (dynamic IP)

My switch hub is 10/100 TP link. I don't use static IP adress. Can someone here advice what to do?

 

I always soft  reset the USBRIDGE device whenever I encounter this instability.

 

It always annoys me.

 

 

First of all, try reserving your NAS IP address on your router so it doesn't renew the lease and change addresses.  Second, I've found that Volumio sometimes looses the connection to my DAC.  When this happens you can click on a tracj and it won't start playing.  Try resetting your DAC and Volumio's connection to it.

[hurka]

9 hours ago, luisma said:

So @hurka you removed the bridge and have a sparky naked connected to an iso regen and so on.....?

my  post long time ago....

iso r sold,sparky,singxer clocked with sclk ex,powered nesscap ultracaps banks.

Sclk ex clocked usbridge sound not bad, but +1 quality power +1 quality clock signal (bridge) make sq just different,not better.

Iso r,usbridge have sq limit.If sound get better without this gadgets(not easy I can tell you),this mean you reached that limit,need step forward....

Lps1.2 or Paul H psu feed sparky +Txusb ultra can be better option without diy skills.

[luisma]

Thanks @hurka for your comments, kind of understand, you using by any chance the SoTM OCX10 to feed the sclk ex?

[JTS]

@luisma. I tried an inexpensive mini pc - it was much too frustrating to work with as it was Slooooooow. Updating software etc was excruciating. 

 

I have a 2014 mac mini in the studio that i hardly use so I put Windows on it, installed the Windows Holo Audio ASIO drivers, the HQ Player NAA and Roon Bridge. Works like a charm. More importantly, it sounds really very, very good on my system in comparison to the USBridge. I suspect that this has more to do with the drivers in windows vs linux than with the USBridge itself.

 

As I mentioned, I have an Allo DigiOne which is a stunningly good sounding S/PDIF interface for PCM. I think, though, that DSD is best handled by the Holo specific ASIO drivers in Windows.

 

So now the chain is

 

RoonCore Linux->LAN->Video Workstation-> Roon Player->HQPlayer->LAN->Windows Mac Mini->HQPlayer NAA->Holospring ASIO Drivers->USB->Schiit Wyrd->USB->HoloSpring->HeedObelisk MKIII->Harbeth P3ESR.

 

I am very happy with how it sounds now.

[luisma]

8 minutes ago, JTS said:

9 minutes ago, JTS said:

I suspect that this has more to do with the drivers in windows vs linux than with the USBridge itself.

 

Agree, most likely the drivers are enhanced for Windows than Linux, that is manufacturer common practices, I am very familiar (and frustrated sometimes) with these practices.

 

9 minutes ago, JTS said:

RoonCore Linux->LAN->Video Workstation-> Roon Player->HQPlayer->LAN->Windows Mac Mini->HQPlayer NAA->Holospring ASIO Drivers->USB->Schiit Wyrd->USB->HoloSpring->HeedObelisk MKIII->Harbeth P3ESR.

 

Thank you for sharing, rather complex indeed, pardon my ignorance in the topic, Video workstation with HQPlayer filtering/upscaling to MacMini with HQPlayer as well filtering and upscaling?

 

Does the Wyrd creates a noticeable difference?

 

Your DAC is the GreenLabel one ?

 

Thanks

 

[JTS]

7 minutes ago, luisma said:

Thank you for sharing, rather complex indeed, pardon my ignorance in the topic, Video workstation with HQPlayer filtering/upscaling to MacMini with HQPlayer as well filtering and upscaling

 No, the MacMini Windows machine just has the HQPlayer NAA (IE endpoint or bridge) Installed. It is a light daemon and just receives the prerendered feed from the HQPlayer Desktop on the video workstation - that is where all the heavy lifting happens. I also have Roon Bridge installed on the MacMini Windows machine for casual listening or for when my workstation is busy with work.

9 minutes ago, luisma said:

Does the Wyrd creates a noticeable difference?

Not really. I think the asynchronous USB connection in combination with the Holo ASIO drivers do a good job. I looked the settings on the driver and it has a very large buffer which I suspect allows it to clean up the clock and any errors in the stream. That is just speculation though.

 

12 minutes ago, luisma said:

Your DAC is the GreenLabel one

 

I have the Level 2 version of the DAC. I'm a speakers guy so I felt that this was the best bang for buck.

[luisma]

The Workstation and Mini are running 2012 Server R2 or Windows 10?

 

[JTS]

Windows 10. Workstation is W10Pro, the MacMini is running W10Home. Workstation is an 8c i7 @4Ghz with a GTX1080.  HQ Player on the workstation puts about an 8% load on the CPU and 4% on the GPU when running Poly-sync-2s. It is not a noticeable load in most circumstances.

[luisma]

thank you for the detailed explanation. ...

 

best

 

[luisma]

4 hours ago, JTS said:

HQPlayer NAA (IE endpoint or bridge) Installed. It is a light daemon and just receives the prerendered feed from the HQPlayer Desktop

both HQ players are the desktop version NOT embedded?

 

[gorazdb]

Hi, guys, there were some posts about issues with Mytek Brooklyn DAC and usbridge. Does any of you have this combination working flawlessly now? Do you use Roon as endpoint?  Great forum!

[JTS]

@luisma The Workstation is running HQPlayer desktop. The Windows Mac Mini is running the HQPlayer NAA (or what is called on the signalyst website, "Network Audio Daemon". It is a lightweight endpoint that receives the rendered stream from HQPlayer Desktop over LAN.

 

So for better clarity:

 

RoonCore Linux->LAN->Video Workstation-> Roon Player->HQPlayer Desktop->LAN->Windows Mac Mini->HQPlayer Audio Daemon->Holospring ASIO Drivers->USB->Schiit Wyrd->USB->Holo Spring DAC->Sound System

 

[jbparrish]

On 3/20/2018 at 6:28 PM, jbparrish said:

To anyone with Audirvana + or JRiver experience:

 

I cannot get the GMRender end point to work right. I can start a track, and then continue to the next track. But if I pause, stop, and try to start another album it hangs. By that I mean Audirvana hangs for several minutes and finally says "error starting device playback". DietPi looks Ok, but in order to sort things out I have reboot DietPi and restart Audirvana, then I can play another track. Same thing essentially with JRiver.

 

Any ideas on what I am missing here?

 

Sorry for the belated response, and thanks to @rahul_kc and others who volunteered their time and expertise.

 

I switched DAC's, from the original Dragonfly to the Explorer2. I had the Explorer2 on order, it just took forever to get here. No problems now. With the much older Dragonfly I had transport problems with DLNA, but no problems with NAA, for no reason I can figure out. But all is well now!!

 

Thanks again for a great community experience.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

On 5/7/2018 at 4:05 AM, hurka said:

my  post long time ago....

iso r sold,sparky,singxer clocked with sclk ex,powered nesscap ultracaps banks.

Sclk ex clocked usbridge sound not bad, but +1 quality power +1 quality clock signal (bridge) make sq just different,not better.

Iso r,usbridge have sq limit.If sound get better without this gadgets(not easy I can tell you),this mean you reached that limit,need step forward....

Lps1.2 or Paul H psu feed sparky +Txusb ultra can be better option without diy skills.

 

That's close to 1500 euros for a USB transport. Let's keep that in mind when you compare it to a USBridge. 

[hurka]

On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 11:56 PM, hopkins said:

 

That's close to 1500 euros for a USB transport. Let's keep that in mind when you compare it to a USBridge. 

1500 for perfect sounding transport.

only 2 chassis(sotm and singxer), no spaghetti,only 3 quality power supply(sclk ex,sparky,singxerF1)

no usb cables(can degrade the sq)